At a recent AS we had a couple of incidents of students putting the muzzle in the dirt. This of course is ruinous to accuracy and safety.
It has occurred to me before, and confirmed by at least one other instructor, that a slip-on 'flash suppressor' will help alleviate the problem by providing a 'stand off' between the actual muzzle and the bit that gets dug into the dirt. It won't cure it entirely; but may make it less likely that someone will stuff a pebble down their bore.
Here's a reasonably nice-looking one, for $18:
http://www.tacticalinc.com/1022-flash-hider-stainless-steel-p-511.html?osCsid=571d53323960837653638ad266c9486f
Here's a cheaper one for only $9, tho you may have to cut the 'ears' off for use with Tech Sights:
http://www.1022central.com/102203more.html
and is on sale for ~$8 here:
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-CHRISTIE/Categories
Does anyone have any experience with such things, and recommendations for or against them in general, and/or specific models?
1. you're absolutely right about folks putting the muzzle of their rifle in the dirt (along with their ammo, their magazines, their chamber flags, etc)
2. the flash suppressors would keep the actual bore out of the dirt most of the time and give gas and dirt a place to "blow" out of if someone did leave a "little" dirt in the flash suppressor.
3. someone will object in spite of the safety reasons because it "militarizes" the look of the .22's
I just keep pointing out they're harming the rifle and possibly causing a dangerous situation, but it does get old after awhile.
Please don't take the above as a negative. Your suggestion should work fine if folks follow it. Might be a good idea for the loaner LTRs.
Yeah, they're probably illegal in California, and maybe other places.
My intent was to use this for LTR loaners. I shall try it myself when I get an LTR to loan out.
It is a great and relativly cheap idea. I have had the same issue with my loaners and new shooters.
Maybe also add to the explanation of the first saftey rule that muzzle in a safe direction does not include buried in the dirt.
I see this most often when working with a sling. Making adjustments, taking it off, etc. Seems to happen more in sitting, some in prone, don't see it much in standing.
Hadn't thought about legality state to state. That is certainly something to consider.
I've actually gotten so frustrated with it I've taken left over target backers and cut them in smaller pieces to lay in front of the target line so when they do drop that muzzle it hits the cardboard, not the dirt/grass.
somethiing just as effective and even more simple is to place something on the ground in front of their shooting mat to keep the muzzle out of the dirt. Tarp, carpet, cardboard, etc.
Same concept as using a ground cloth to keep the muzzle blast from kicking up dust in front of your position.
Quote from: mtmisfit on September 28, 2009, 12:44:35 PM
somethiing just as effective and even more simple is to place something on the ground in front of their shooting mat to keep the muzzle out of the dirt. Tarp, carpet, cardboard, etc.
This point is good. The downsides I see to it are:
- When it rains, dirt will get on top of it and may end up being a problem anyway
- It may blow away in the wind or be kicked aside by treading feet
- It's one more thing for the shoot boss to carry around.
In much the same way that a suppressor is better than earmuffs/earplugs, I believe curing the problem at the source (the rifle) is best. If that's not possible, then we use an alternative. Options are a good thing, and thanks for the suggestion.
Quote from: Redchrome on September 28, 2009, 01:09:12 PM
Quote from: mtmisfit on September 28, 2009, 12:44:35 PM
somethiing just as effective and even more simple is to place something on the ground in front of their shooting mat to keep the muzzle out of the dirt. Tarp, carpet, cardboard, etc.
This point is good. The downsides I see to it are:
- When it rains, dirt will get on top of it and may end up being a problem anyway
- It may blow away in the wind or be kicked aside by treading feet
- It's one more thing for the shoot boss to carry around.
In much the same way that a suppressor is better than earmuffs/earplugs, I believe curing the problem at the source (the rifle) is best. If that's not possible, then we use an alternative. Options are a good thing, and thanks for the suggestion.
Curing it at the source would be to get the shooter to be aware of the danger/damage and stop doing it.
I do not see this with older shooters, I see it with younger shooters, especially inserting a mag in prone position, or as said earlier messing around with the sling in seated.
Do you teach them not to do that, yes of course it is obvious you would do that. but that isn't the point. The point is regardless of what you teach people, if your loaning your rifle out, abnormal (in the hands of a seasoned shooter such as yourself) is fairly normal with a 10 year old shooting for the first time.
Of course we all have a choice, you can hope 100% of everything you teach your students soaks in the very first time and they never end up damaging your loaner rifle
or
You can take the precaution and idiot proof it as Redchrome suggests. Gee I wonder if that is why a good match barrel has a recessed target crown....Them fellas are pretty sharp, I wouldn't think anything would ever happen to their muzzle.
Not as much problem at the WA DAR grass covered and right at the fireing line it go's down hill (see pic's on after action reports) but it is a problem.
Wade
Hello Group; I for one will have to weigh in on the side of @#$%#@&^% proofing your gear a flash hider is quite a bit cheaper than a new barrel. Good Insurance.
See Brownells they have two that pin on behind the front site on a stock barrel they come in blue and stainless.
Pappy
Quote from: Pappy on September 28, 2009, 07:18:31 PM
Hello Group; I for one will have to weigh in on the side of @#$%#@&^% proofing your gear a flash hider is quite a bit cheaper than a new barrel. Good Insurance.
See Brownells they have two that pin on behind the front site on a stock barrel they come in blue and stainless.
Pappy,
do you have any experience with those John Masen flash suppressors?
I've had mixed results with John Masen products. AFAIK they're made cheap in chinastan, and while adequate, aren't exceptional.
Here's the things I think you're thinking of:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=1786/k=/t=S/mfg=/Products/Ruger-10-22-Flash-Suppressors
Cheaper, quicker, easier method which has worked in the past: Extend the shooting mat beyond the firing line so that when the muzzle dips it only hits mat, not dirt. JB
Looks like muzzle brakes are the new Appleseed iceberg! ::)
How many of you are going down to Mississippi to help out DonD on the line next weekend? O0
Sam
One of the core values of the program is personal responsibility and handling your rifle safely.
If you have students who are dropping muzzles in the dirt repeatedly, or not following instructions, or are careless in rifle handling, then take them off the line to rest and reflect.
O0 O0 O0