What do you think of these directions?
"Step 7: Note that the cap nut has six flat sides (duh, it's a hexagon!). Start with the spring untensioned, then rotate it eight [flat sides] clockwise. In other words, you're moving it one and one-third full revolutions, or 480 degrees. I find this easy to do when holding the cap nut with a pair of pliers, otherwise it slips through my fingers when under tension. When properly tensioned, use your finger to press the cap nut into the hexagonal depression in the magazine cap. Then, while holding the cap nut in place, use your hex wrench to tighten the screw on the other side. Ensure it's tightened firmly, but do not strip the threads or screw head."
Junior Birdman, our resident expert, turns his mags 2.5 revolutions (not flat sides). By my count (oh, Jesus, I'm doing math in public again!), based on six flat sides per turn, that's fifteen flat sides.
That's quite a discrepancy. I know mags get extra dirty at Appleseed, I'm wondering if we really want that many flat sides of tension.
So, here's the question: Compared to how often you clean your mags, how many flat sides of tension do you use?
I did the wife's quite a while ago for non-Appleseed, and my notes say 10 flats. didn't want to get too nutso. I guess I wasn't
Ten flats here on the advice of a silhouette shooter. Never had a problem.
DAve
I bought a brand-spankin' new mag and disassembled it, paying particular attention to how many revolutions it took to take all the tension off the spring.
It was two full rotations to unwind the spring.
I now wind them back two full rotations and it feels right. I also have no feed problems.
Jim
I do it eight flats and have had zero problems.
I do eight flats as well
I do 8 flats on 10 loaner magazines, but I also open them up and wipe them out about once a month, so I doubt that the round count gets above that of a typical AS for any one magazine. Blowing sand hasn't been a factor in the shoots they have been used in.
Be aware that with waxed ammo (plated Aguila for instance) wax can/will build up on the rotor channels. Wax combined with dirt/sand/pollen! can make the rotor stick so that rounds do not rotate up to the feeding position. Truth be told, this only happened to me with a mag that still had the factory tension, but it is something to watch for.
Finding Jimbtv's assertion of two turns (12 flats) put into the spring by the factory somewhat surprising, I decided to check it. By geesum, he's right! Most of my mags are coming apart for their first time at exactly two turns. One, a clear factory version, seemed to come out at more than two. (I'm not done yet with all 20, though.)
Having personally witnessed JB clean and reassemble these mags, I can attest that his custom fix is to put MORE tension on the spring than the factory does. So JB's 2.5 turns is entirely consistent with the facts.
Sorry for doubting you, JB! Sometimes we just have to see for ourselves.
The long and the short of it is that those directions a lot of us are using calling for 8 flats are bogus, after all. Appleseed info, as usual, remains on the cutting edge!
I'm doing the rest of my mags at 2.5 turns and marking them as such. I'm leaving the one I did, and marked, at 8 flats just to see if that one malfunctions first.
That video on you tube is WRONG!! It should not be eight flats.
Factory tension is two full rotations, (or 12 flats) as others have stated.
I like the idea of JB's extra half turn to put extra tension... Mags do get dirty inside at an appleseed!!! :'(
As long as the extra tension still allows ten rounds to be inserted, I see no problems with it.. I will try and mark a few also...
PLUS ONE ON THE WAX COATED AMMO !!!
"...Be aware that with waxed ammo (plated Aguila for instance) wax can/will build up on the rotor channels... can make the rotor stick so that rounds do not rotate up to the feeding position..."
I shoot CCI Standard Velocity almost exclusively.
I eventually gummed up all 8 of my mags.
(at least 1K rounds per mag before I took them apart)
I'm with JB on having a little extra Mag spring force.
Rounds present more consistently.
Nerd Answer:
Over-torquing the springs a little bit won't hurt.
The spring will yield if it's outside its "Elastic Region."
It will only yield until it's back inside its "Elastic Region."
This means that you are achieving the maximum force available from your spring by flirting with its yield strength.
Store your mags empty if you want the most out of them. (Unless your 10/22 is your MBR)
You won't be taxing the spring during any extended periods of non-use. (I know, I know, Heresy.)
sk
Quote from: Camljr on August 31, 2009, 02:40:28 AM
That video on you tube is WRONG!! It should not be eight flats.
Factory tension is two full rotations, (or 12 flats) as others have stated.
I like the idea of JB's extra half turn to put extra tension... Mags do get dirty inside at an appleseed!!! :'(
As long as the extra tension still allows ten rounds to be inserted, I see no problems with it.. I will try and mark a few also...
Ran into a problem last weekend with some LTR mags from another instructor. With twelve+ flats (judging by the amount of tension compared to my mags with 10 flats). None of the kids could get more than six rounds in a mag by noon Sunday, their thumbs were just too sore, I was pretty busy loading mags Sunday afternoon. The kids had no issues loading my mags tensioned at ten flats.
10 flats, 12 flats, 2 1/2 turns, I say it depends on if the mags exhibit feed problems and who the intended user will be.
YHJ
I'll be testing this advice - College Station, TX was quite muddy last weekend.
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6605/img6168l.jpg) (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/img6168l.jpg/)
At every Appleseed I attend I learn that I can never forsee all the ways folks will abuse their equipment. Uggghhhh!! I constantly tell them not to drop their chamber flags, magazine and ammo into the dirt and then jamb them back into the rifle. Most folks just don't understand the quicker it gets dirty the sooner it stops working and more times you shove mud and dirt into and keep trying to use the sooner it will break or wear out.
I think 2.5 revolutions must be the ticket as well.
I had cleaned out all my mags after my last appleseed and went with two complete turns and I don't think it was enough. I went out over the weekend and I was getting 2-3 malfunctions per mag... not stovepipes. The empty brass would eject, but the bolt would close before it chambered another round and this was typically during the last five shots when there wasn't as much spring tension. I didn't bring an allen wrench with me (stupid) but they will all be getting an extra half turn before the next outing.