Anybody have any experience with optics on an M1A? I don't just mean a scope. I am thinking about going down that road with mine since I can't get much more out of mine past 500 yards. Is there anything out there that will do CQB and distance? Like a 1-4 power scope?
IMHO this is The Optic for what you seek. It ain't cheap, but it pretty much does it all.
http://www.rapidreticle.com/1-4_Illuminated.htm (http://www.rapidreticle.com/1-4_Illuminated.htm)
Note that this is a First Focal Plane reticle, thus the BDC is correct for any power setting. The FFP arrangement is required in my view for a fighting rifle with a ballistic reticle.
FWIW I have several other scopes by Pride Fowler and they are excellent in quality and value. I have not had a chance to try this one, though.
Good luck on your search.
When you scope an M1A be prepared to install some type of riser on the stock to give you a good stock/cheek weld. You gotta have your eye in the same spot every time. In order to clear the rear sight scope mounts set the scope welll above the reciever on M1A's.
I recommend the scout concept; having never used that style mount on an M1A pattern rifle, I don't know much about the offerings, but the EER scope stays out of the way of the action, doesn't interfere with using clips to load a magazine on the rifle, and still provides a good sight picture for extended ranges. I especially like the crosshairs on the same focal plane as the target; my eyes are starting to turn traitor on me, and every bit of help I can get past 300 yards is something I'll take gladly.
I have a Savage Scout, equipped with the Leupold Scout FXII scope. Its VERY clear, pulls in a LOT of light, and has proven very durable. Being fixed power, the focal plane of the reticle is irrelevant, the weight of the scope is low, and its small enough to sit VERY low in the mounts. I use Leupold's QD rings, but will be looking elsewhere after recent issues with the levers that tighten/loosen them on the rifle.
The only issue I've seen so far with the Scout concept is that if you have sun low and behind you, it REALLY hazes up the reticle. So be it; yank the scope off and use irons.
2 pennies...
Byrdman
I also agree with the scout concept. I bought a "loaded" M1A package about 10 years ago with a NM barrel. Springfield Armory's scout mount won't fit on a NM barrel, so I used a TC Encore Leupold quick-release mount, drilled and tapped into the barrel. Have a Leupold scout scope with low rings. I really like the set-up, as the scope is low to the bore, and I can quickly pull it off and use my iron sights.
Another reccomendation for the scout setup. I reccomend a burris pistol scope, I use the 2-7x-32mm model with an electrodot and it works great. I can get consistent 1.5 MOA groups out of the stock scout and this optic with match ammo. The best part is it's easy to takeoff with the leupold QRW rings so I can use the iron sights for things like appleseeds. It retains zero suprisingly well when you take it on and off, usually only needing an inch or two of adjustment at 100 yards
I decided on a Millet Designated Marksman Scope 1-4x32 power. I have an ITT scope mount on order but may go with the ARMS mount and I will get some quick detach rings for it. Don't know what kind yet. I have never been a fan of the scout concept and sold a .308 savage scout I had because of it.
I like scout scope arrangements; but I didn't like the Springfield Armory scout mount arrangement on their M1As; it weakened the top handguard too much, and made it feel flimsy.
I don't have any experience with these; they only fit a standard-weight barrel, but Fulton Armory is a pretty good brand, so I have some faith that it's a decent product.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/MAParts.htm#FA-M4-500-120-Super-Scout
I bought a scope mount from this company, based on the fact that there's a huge thread over at m14tfl.com where people say these are the best on the market.
http://www.bassettmachine.com/
I have very little experience with mine; and I put crappy rings and a crappy scope on it just to try it out, but the mount *feels* pretty good.
Clearing the rear sight is indeed a problem. I screwed my rear sight all the way down to clear the ocular bell of the scope, and then wondered where my first sighter shot went at the next shooting match... #) Had to get medium-height rings with a rear offset to make everything clear; but then again I bought the 'low' mount instead of the standard one.
I use an Acog Ta11c model on a Sadlak mount. I chose the Sadlak because they offer a better range of fitment and a lightweight version. The Ta11c is the Acog with the "donut of death" reticle. No batteries and it's calibrated for 7.62 out to 800 yards...... Not cheap but neither was the 3 OTHER solutions I tried...the difference...this one works!
Funny, the last time I posted on this topic, I wrote this:
"....or just put an AmegaRanges or Ultimak rail on it, use a forward mounted scope (IIE or some pistol scopes), and be done with it. IMHO that's the proper place for a scope on an MBR anyway.
(I have a friend who's done this with the Burris 2-7 pistol scope with good results. I've done it with Garands with the Burris and a Pride Fowler pistol scope [made for the 500 S&W]. It works pretty well.)
So I guess I should have noted that here too. :)
So if you go with a forward mount, try the path I just quoted. If you go with a receiver mount, do this:
1. buy the $5.00 Sadlak "fit kit" to see if your receiver is in spec w/r/to the scope mounting surfaces
2. If OK by USGI specs, then choose either:
a. the Sadlak Mount
b. the Smith Enterprise Mount
c. the ARMS mount
d. a new one I can't recall right now....
DON'T buy a cheap mount, and don't buy a Springfield Mount.
If your receiver is out of spec enough to cause problems, Sadlak will use your measurements to machine a mount to fit your rifle. The cost is $45 extra and IMHO a great idea for out of spec M14 type rifles.
Decide your path, then worry about optics. If you're going receiver mount for sure, then the prior parts of the thread should get you going. The Millet will do OK - a buddy has one. It's not ideal, but OK. As long as it holds up it should work for you, although it lacks some of the ranging refinements of the others suggested. Play with it and use the reticle to estimate distance as best you can.
Good luck.
I have had good luck with the Burris scout scope 2.5 power with heavy duplex. The reticle comes out to about 1MOA for the thin part with about 20MOA between thick parts. Have had no problems with the Leopould quick release lever rings. I still have problems with FTF and FTE but that doesn't have anything to do with the optics. Just my two cents Wolfman
I have one of the burris 2.75X IER scopes on a K31 with a Darrel's Scout Mount.
In short, spend the extra $50 for the Leupold IER scope.
After riding around (in a padded case, on the carpet floor, with soft gear around it to keep it from moving) in a van for 4000 miles, the reticle is no longer square with the adjustment knobs.
Also, I believe the eye relief on the Leupold is more forgiving; tho it's been a while since I did a comparison/research so I could be wrong.
d. a new one I can't recall right now....
GDI-Global Defense Industries, makes an excellent mount as well......
I will say that I have a Garand with the Ameega Ranges scout mount on it and it works rather well also. That's another option if you prefer a "scope". The cost is less as well.
I used a scout Amega Range scout mount with a LaRue SPR-E backward to mount a normal eye relief scope. The mount is quick detach, leaves maximum room above the bolt, and resists recoil inline and not torsionally. The scope is balistically compensated to 700m but in practice I find that a first focal plane would have been better as Atlas Shrug suggested.
A closer look.
JoeZ,
How do you like that scout mount?
What make of stock is that?
The stock is a Fred's synthetic painted with Lauer Custom paint from Midway. The cheek rest is a Rooster33.
The scout mount is an Amega Range. It's a bit heavy and throws the balance forward but from sitting and prone weight is not a liability.
The scope mount is a LaRue SPR-E from LaRue Tactical. I love the LaRue as it allows proper turkey neck with my rifles which is nearly impossible with a scoped M1A and difficult minimum with an AR. The scope mount is quick disconnect with adjustable tension on the locking cams for a good repeatable zero.
Quote from: Will on July 06, 2009, 10:39:48 AM
I use an Acog Ta11c model on a Sadlak mount. I chose the Sadlak because they offer a better range of fitment and a lightweight version. The Ta11c is the Acog with the "donut of death" reticle. No batteries and it's calibrated for 7.62 out to 800 yards...... Not cheap but neither was the 3 OTHER solutions I tried...the difference...this one works!
Hey how well is that Trijicon ACOG working for you- groups, acquisition, ease of positioning, retaining zero etc. ? What else did you try?
The ACOG is an excellent optic. My son has one on his AR 10. It's quick, both eyes open, no magnification to consider, ballistic compensation and range finder built in to the reticule. I've not seen one on an M1A though. You would need a rail over the the ejection port but that's what most scope mounts for the M1A are. Be sure to follow Atlas Shrug's advice when installing a scope mount on an M1A. It's diffficult to do it right and I've seen many men just plain give up when the scope is 200moa off.(I'm not kidding)Other than that,I don't see why it wouldn't work.