I probably shouldn't tie up the forum with trivial questions such as this but I can't get a straight answer from anyone I know so I am asking the people who know what they are talking about.
I am thinking of a Red Dot sight for my new rifle (Savage 10 Precision Carbine .223). I would like opinions on Red Dots for a Rifleman's Rifle. I'm not really interested in a traditional scope for parallax reasons. Pockets not deep enough for the proper scope either.
The one I am looking at is the Sightron S33-4R. It has 4 reticles ranging from 1 moa dot with crosshairs to 8 moa dot and comes with a Lifetime Warranty for $200. I figured that with the various reticles it would serve not only the Savage but also any other rifle I own or have not acquired yet.
Sure I would love an Aimpoint but like I said about my pockets...
I am seeking to pick the brains of those who have experience with red dots. ANY info, however opinionated, will be helpful and appreciated.
Now, enlighten me with everything you got! ;)
Thanks ahead of time.
jollynator
THey are good for low light/CQB type work. Keep in mind that most are not easily adjustable for range unless you get an ACOG or something. For a .223 with 62 grain ammo, I think that if you zero it at 25 meters, the bullet crosses the line of sight again at 200 meters or so. If you wanted to go out to 500, you would have to know how much to hold up or either zero it at 500. Which would really play havoc with anything less than 300. With my 4 moa Aimpoint, I have tried shooting a 4moa target at 200 meters and had problems hitting the target because it obscuress the target and doesn't have any easily definable edges. Just keep in mind that they really are for CQB. In my opinion, you would be better off buying a burris, nikon, or high end simmons scope with mil-dots or something. They are more for rifleman type shooting.
I've had them on .22's, a .30/30, a 12 gauge shotgun, and a muzzleloader. I still have them on a 12 gauge and a .22.
As Dwayne noted one real problem is dot size obscuring the target at distance. In my case I had an Aimpoint 3000 and Blazer. I believe that the dot on the aimpoint was 4 moa. I first tried it on a .30/30 but I decided that since I had taken 150 yard shots with the .30/30 I should stick to a scope. Next was the inline ML, it worked ok for it, but it's lowlight characteristics (ie. the time when you usually will get a shot at a deer) left alot to be desired. If you didn't adjust the dot down to almost minimum power, the red reflection obscured the target. I wound up with a Leupold 2-7x33 shotgun scope (75 yard parallax) that has VERY good low light characteristics on my ML. The place where the red dot really worked well for me was on the shotgun. It allowed me to shoot both eyes open with a tight choke and has been responsible for a couple of dozen deer at ranges out to 75 yards.
Like Dwayne, I think that a scope might serve you better. It should be better in low light, the magnification can help tired eyes, and you can definitely get a Nikon Prostaff model at less than your $200 price point. It is a good scope, it may equal or exceed the quality of the VariX 2 by Leupold. I have a 3-9 model on my Deer Rifle and it has never let me down. As always, "Your Mileage may vary"...
I have a Truglo 2x red/green dot with 4 reticles and 11 brightness setings. The smallest reticle is a 3 MOA center dot, and the cost was about $149. I like it. For what it's worth, I have been to 2 AS and used it both times to shoot rifleman.
My Bushnell Holosight (made by Eotech and looks like Eotech) also has a 1MOA dot. It was just over $200. It has served me well for several years and I have used it on everything from my .45-70 down to my LTRs on occasion.
They seem to work well for fast close work, but just when you need it most and have taken best advantage (like getting the BG to look into the sun) you can't see diddly with the thing from the glare.
I tend to look at it as a specialists tool and not something a rifleman (note small R) would have a lot of use for
YMMV
Sam
I'll echo the "better for close-in non-precision". I have one on my turkey shotgun and on my 9mm plinking carbine. It's wonderful on the carbine - steel plates have no chance!
It is definitely not a precision tool.
If you want to try one out, watch for Cabelas or BassPro to have one of the cheaper BSA or similar models on sale for $20-30. If you like that, then you can think about springing for a Holosight or similar.
Believe it or not, I've had decent experience using an Aimpoint CompM2 on an M16A4.
Only used it out to 300 meters, though, and that's pushing it's limitations.
The trick is keep the dot turned down, so it's effectively smaller.
First of all, I assume by your selection of the Savage M-10 and the .223 caliber that you are interested in a high level of accuracy and for use on varmint type targets out to ranges of around 400 yards.
If this is the case my opinion is to forget about electronic dot sights and look for a variable power rifle scope. My personal .223 bolt action has a 4X16 Tasco Target/Varmint scope. It has survived 5 Wyoming prairie dog hunts. I don't say this is the answer, just my choice.
If you are considering it as a CQB rifle of which red dot sights are the rage, trade the bolt action for a semi auto of some kind. There are a mind boggling number of choices here, my choice being the AR-15.
I feel that the only need for the red dot is for low light conditions. I also know from experience that in bright sunlight against light colored targets that the red dot can be more difficult (sometimes impossible) to see than can a good set of iron sights such as are on the AR-15 and M1-A.
Here is a lot of information and also the lowest prices you will find on either scopes or red dot sights.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/riflescopebesandtop.html
My exp. is with older Aimpoints, all 4MOA or larger. Personally I love the red dot for what it is--a fast reaction system. It is instinctive, parallax free, and I have yet to have a real Aimpoint wash out in the bright Texas sun. I have shot lots of clay pidgeons on the berm from 100yds m/l with a M4gery (14.5" w/permanent flash hider to the required 16.x" length), and the 10moa Aimpoint 5000magdot is super for an AK platform. In addition, you can use the visual circle of the optic as a LARGE rear peep if you need to. Not the most accurate way to shoot stuff (using the dot is better by far) but in the event of a battery failure or the like, it is do-able. Though that is really designed for the 'two way range', if you know what I mean.