Or is it just another version of an open sight? I know they make flip up magnifiers for them so you can run with or without any magnifications. But is a stand alone red dot just a lateral move from open sights? Or some level of a step up? Holosun has one with a reticle that isn't just a dot. It has BDC built in. Curious if that would be a good step or just jump straight from opens to scoped. :sos: :)
For shooting an AQT or for some other purpose?
For an AQT, just as a personal opinion, I think the red dot a small improvement on iron sights. You get a little benefit from being able to see the entire target instead of having a sight blade obscuring your vision. You lose the benefit of the aperture increasing your depth of focus. Magnification benefits the fine reticle of a telescopic sight more than it does a red dot.
This is not me being anti-dot. If I'm shooting IPSC mini rifle, I'm reaching for a dot over a telescopic sight every single time. Each tool has its application.
Yes, I was thinking AQT primarily, but also just in general. That Holosun with the holdover dots has piqued my curiosity and interest.
I had a whole draft post written, realized it was almost entirely theorycrafting, and decided to delete the whole thing. I would love to hear from someone who used a red dot with a more sophisticated reticle for a KD!
I have not used a red dot with a "sophisticated" reticle, but I have used a fixed 2.5x power scope with a BDC reticle and first-focal-plane low-power variable-power scopes with BDC reticles. With my old eyes, the BDC reticle is of little value with low magnification.
If I were going to shoot a red dot at a KD, I would recommend using the Battle Sight Zero method.
I recently had the opportunity to spend some time with an EoTech. With its 1 MOA dot, I was able to shoot some great groups compared to what I typically get with my old 4 MOA Aimpoint. That said, I don't spend much time shooting red dots at any real distance. YMMV
Red dot - PCC < 100 meters.
I have one on my Ruger PC9. At PCC distances, the carbine doesn't care if I get halos and distortion from a cataract.
I also have one on my shotgun. Same principal.
Otherwise, I'd pick a scope with a lit reticle or an ACOG over a red dot when it comes to a "battle rifle."
I realize I should have included more details. This (whatever "this" I end up with) will go on my Tippmann M4-22. It will be to laughingly attempt an Appleseed (the laughing being me and the up/down to positions) and my local 25yd indoor range. A (very) few times a year when weather is tolerable I might go to the outdoor 100yd range. And once, for more laughing, I'd like to try a RKD although I'm still unclear if that actually walked off 200yds to place targets or shot again at 25M with targets sized to simulate distance. So that's my intended usage. Also, last night, I discovered Primary Arms has a dot with 3x magnification, not a weight adding flip up second device but built into the red dot. The PRO being no second device and it's weight, the CON being always 3x, if that's a CON.
At RKD events, targets are posted to 200 yards actual distance.
Quote from: Maximum Ordinate on July 10, 2026, 09:11:10 AMAt RKD events, targets are posted to 200 yards actual distance.
Thanks. I figured so but hadn't found the answer or been to know first-hand. That would suggest (to one who knows absolutely nothing, like me) the 3x red dot would be mandatory and likely inadequate still at that distance. A 2-7x is probably a better minimum optic for that.
Then again,
some would probably figure that's the reason one would have
both the red dot
and the good zoom optic.
Quote from: LDB415 on July 10, 2026, 09:17:59 AMThanks. I figured so but hadn't found the answer or been to know first-hand. That would suggest (to one who knows absolutely nothing, like me) the 3x red dot would be mandatory and likely inadequate still at that distance. A 2-7x is probably a better minimum optic for that.
Then again, some would probably figure that's the reason one would have both the red dot and the good zoom optic.
The 3x magnification is fine.
Having sufficient elevation adjustment on a red dot to get on target at that distance is the challenge. Holding high is not normally practical as your sights must be on the target (backer) before your finger goes on the trigger.
Buy whatever makes you happy from whoever makes you happy. But it's no accident why Appleseed selected the specific Vortex 2-7x scope packages listed in the store. ;)
:yeahthat:
Quote from: LDB415 on July 10, 2026, 09:17:59 AMQuote from: Maximum Ordinate on July 10, 2026, 09:11:10 AMAt RKD events, targets are posted to 200 yards actual distance.
Thanks. I figured so but hadn't found the answer or been to know first-hand. That would suggest (to one who knows absolutely nothing, like me) the 3x red dot would be mandatory and likely inadequate still at that distance. A 2-7x is probably a better minimum optic for that.
Then again, some would probably figure that's the reason one would have both the red dot and the good zoom optic.
There is no theoretical upper limit to the number of rifles one can rationalize in one's collection!
I took a quick look at the PA lineup of 3x sights. I don't know that I want any centerfire BDC reticle on a scope meant for rimfire use, so that leads me to the mil options, and all of those use the mini-prism mounting footprint. I can't find a canted riser for that footprint (so far), which means that if the built-in adjustment range can't get you on paper with 22LR at 200 yards, you are out of luck. For KD, I would feel a lot more confident with a 2-7 scope on a 30MOA rail.
Again, this is not to say there's something wrong with Primary Arms sights. I just don't know that they're the right tool for Appleseed rimfire shooting.
I concur with the Vortex 2-7.
MamaPinks and I both have the rimfire version on our M&P 15-22's, and the centerfire version on our AR's.
I also have the scout version on one of my antique Argentines.
For the price, it's a tough, reliable, solid scope with decent glass.
I ordered the Vortex 2-7x and mount. With a sale and discount I got it for $260 to my door. Given the price of that mount alone that's a good deal, to me anyway.
Quote from: LDB415 on July 11, 2026, 03:37:14 PMI ordered the Vortex 2-7x and mount. With a sale and discount I got it for $260 to my door. Given the price of that mount alone that's a good deal, to me anyway.
Solid choice sir! That scope will give you greater flexibility in terms of your shooting and Appleseed Events. Should be fine for 200RKD's or 25m clinics.
While I originally thought a red dot for the 25m clinic didn't offer enough for me to try it, one shooter who I have instructed and shot alongside of a couple of times ran one this past year on his AR-22 build. He shot very well and actually loved it for the 25m event. He ran a 3x magnifier behind it. Kept the illumination down low so he could overlay the dot on his target. The 3x was more than enough for him to see targets. So I wouldn't discount it for 25m events, I just wouldn't go there at all for RKD's. The scope you have purchased is much more versatile. This is one of the fun aspects of Appleseed is trying new things! Shoot iron sights, red dots, scopes, etc! Try it with bolt actions, semi autos or lever actions! Test your skills!
I have worn bi-focal glasses since 9 years old. I find 2 MOA dots and smaller and chevrons much easier to shoot than iron sights.
For 100 yard RFKD using a 75 yard zero and a slight hold for 100 is very doable given the minimal drop.
200 yards needs about 24 MOA adjustment from your 25/50 yard zero. Most red dots have very simple adjustments without numbers and would be challenging to adjust up and down repeatedly.
The prism sights from Primary arms are good. I have also used Vortex and Burris Prism sights but not for 200 yard RFKD.
My dot is a SIG Romeo 5 Gen II Elite with the 2 MOA main dot, 3 ranging dots and a circle. Or 3 other reticle options should one wish. Given recent "events" it is clear now I will only be shooting seated at a bench or standing at the firing line. So I foresee at least 98% of this rifle's shooting at 25/50 yds/M. Or anywhere in between. I plan to zero at 25 and if/when I shoot 50 to experiment with the 3 ranging dots to find the best match. Maybe not the best or smartest way to do it but it's all for my fun so that's the current plan. Then who knows. I also bought the Juliet 5 and when the correct Pic rail arrives I'll get that swapped on the rifle and try them both.
I really liked the Leupold 2-7x. Better glass than the Vortex. But like everything Leupold of course they don't make them anymore.
Red Dots...I just see a giant starburst. And we're talking everything from SIG Romeo to AIM Point. I do like the EOTECH holographic sights, but not exactly a long-range precision optic without a magnifier.