Any of these thoughts even remotely correct?
At close range, 25M or less, velocity doesn't matter too much as there isn't enough time or distance for wind to affect much?
At KD, 200 yards, and to a lesser degree 100yd and 50yd, velocity could improve hits by less exposure to the wind over the longer distances?
So using CCI for convenience, at KD, would the Mini-Mag in theory shoot better than SV? And a step further, would Velocitor potentially do better still?
Quote from: LDB415 on February 06, 2026, 09:00:43 AMAny of these thoughts even remotely correct?
At close range, 25M or less, velocity doesn't matter too much as there isn't enough time or distance for wind to affect much?
At KD, 200 yards, and to a lesser degree 100yd and 50yd, velocity could improve hits by less exposure to the wind over the longer distances?
So using CCI for convenience, at KD, would the Mini-Mag in theory shoot better than SV? And a step further, would Velocitor potentially do better still?
So I'm no expert but at 25m you are correct the difference between say Cci SV and mini mags is negligible when it comes to wind.
At a RFKD most choose SV or similar because it is subsonic sure the extra velocity helps a little bit with wind but it also adds another more unpredictable variable. So when a projectile goes subsonic it goes through for lack of better words turbulence and can make for erratic groups to say the least.
So regardless of the small benefit it's typically better to go with a subsonic ammunition like Cci SV at least in the case of a RFKD but I encourage you to go find a 200m range and mess around with different ammunition.
This is just my observations in my limited experience.
That meshes with thoughts I've had. I wondered if there's a round fast enough to stay supersonic the entire 200yd distance. I guess that's too tall an order for .22 though. I'll keep looking but absent joining a private range/club for megabucks there's nothing over 100yds anywhere within reason.
You could always look into say 17 hmr or 22 magnum. But that's about all I can think of that would get you close. But I can't say for sure haven't messed with them much.
22LR supers usually go subsonic at about 35 yards. I don't think you can change that to 200 and still call it 22LR.
David makes some good points. The transonic affect is a concern with HV rounds. If you shoot SV there is no transition to sub-sonic.
We like to say "the rifle gets a vote" on ammo choice. Some perform better with one ammo over another. Chamber dimension and barrel condition and length are considerations. Anything other than .22LR or with velocity greater than 1300 FPS is unwelcome at the RKDs I run because they diminish the intent of the RKD to mimic the KD experience at a shorter distance.
There was a great article in July 2023 Guns & Ammo magazine that offers useful data and perspectives on the topic. The bottom line: SV is a good choice out to 200 yards. I can e-mail you a pdf if you are interested.
That would be great. I'll send you my email. Thank you.
Quote from: TheMenace on February 06, 2026, 11:58:09 AMDavid makes some good points. The transonic affect is a concern with HV rounds. If you shoot SV there is no transition to sub-sonic.
We like to say "the rifle gets a vote" on ammo choice. Some perform better with one ammo over another. Chamber dimension and barrel condition and length are considerations. Anything other than .22LR or with velocity greater than 1300 FPS is unwelcome at the RKDs I run because they diminish the intent of the RKD to mimic the KD experience at a shorter distance.
There was a great article in July 2023 Guns & Ammo magazine that offers useful data and perspectives on the topic. The bottom line: SV is a good choice out to 200 yards. I can e-mail you a pdf if you are interested.
Good to know I didn't know that about ammunition restrictions for the RFKD
The KD manual states that only .22LR will count for score. The rest is Shootboss discretion.
Glad I didn't rush and order another RF caliber like old me would have. :) Maybe eventually just for fun though. #)
Right! I bought a .17HMR Savage bolty just because I didn't already have one. I shot it a few times but there's not much challenge. I don't hunt varmints so it sits in the safe waiting.
From The Menace: We like to say "the rifle gets a vote" on ammo choice. Some perform better with one ammo over another.
I like this quote and it's completely true.
Because, my Tech Sighted 22" barreled 10/22 likes CCI Mini Mags for a 200 yd RFKD.
My go to ammo for RFKD is CCI Standard, when I'm using a scope. When I shoot the 200 yard course with my 10/22 equipped with tech sight, I run out of elevation adjustment with the front and rear sights, even with the TSR 200 model of Tech Sights. I suppose I could shorten the front sight a few 1/100ths of an inch, but it's easier to change ammo. So, I switch over to CCI Mini Mags (40 gr RN). The extra 150 to 200 fps makes all the difference. Even though it obviously goes subsonic, that transition doesn't seem to affect the bullets much. It probably does, but two years ago, I shot a few practice AQTs and on my second attempt, I scored 50x50 hits with CCI Mini Mags. So, IMHO, CCI Mini Mags are pretty good out to 200 yards.
Here's a link to a post I made on a similar topic last year.
https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?msg=424630
Gus
Quote from: TheMenace on February 06, 2026, 02:52:38 PMThe KD manual states that only .22LR will count for score. The rest is Shootboss discretion.
That makes sense. The 22 Magnum will absolutely reach out and touch something at 100 yards with minimal drop and manageable drop at 200. That round is a wild turkey sniping dream in states that allow them for the season.
As always excellent and very helpful (to me) responses. They keep me thinking even I could do this. Then I think about prone and having to get back up and not so much. :)
A small sturdy stool next to your mat will give you the extra leverage to get back up (after you make the rifle safe!) gracefully.
I was thinking one of those fancy things they use in the shop to lift the engines. :)
Quote from: LDB415 on February 09, 2026, 03:06:19 PMAs always excellent and very helpful (to me) responses. They keep me thinking even I could do this. Then I think about prone and having to get back up and not so much. :)
I think you can do it. Maybe there will be some accommodations, but I think you can do it, and you should definitely try.
If you are laying down or sitting, can you get up off the floor? Is it impossibile or just difficult or painful? Being able to get up off the ground is an important part of well-being and safety. I just this week saw an example of how important it is with an elderly family member. It was a pretty sobering experience. You do not want to lose that ability!
If getting up off the ground is difficult for you, you might want to start seeing some kind of physical therapist to work on it. If you can get up, but it's difficult or a bit painful, you might want to check into yoga or see a personal trainer. I'd recommend a professional so you don't hurt yourself or overdo it. Whoever you decide to consult, let them know you want to be able to move from standing to a seated position, preferably cross-legged, and get back up again to standing. Same for prone. Another good reason to start working on it is, even if you can't do the transitions perfectly, you can know your limitations in advance, so you can ask for accommodations and you can avoid overdoing it at your event.
You've got a month or more to work on it, and that's a pretty decent amount of time to make an improvement. I usually have to begin a bit of an exercise routine a month or so before an event to make sure I have the strength, flexibility, and stamina to make it through the day. And that exercise has never failed to make me feel better about myself and how I think of myself outside of Appleseed. Appleseed has been a great motivator for me keep my fitness up, and that's been great for me in the rest of my life. Maybe it will do the same for you. Do it for your overall well-being!
Thank you for a full and thoughtful reply. I can get up but it takes a bit of work and is much easier when I can use the bed or whatever to lift with rather than just getting up from the middle of the room. Popping up like 50 years ago is definitely no more. The biggest problem/challenge to your suggestions, which are excellent, is laziness. The should far outweighs the do. I know inside I can do it. I just may not fully complete anything that has a time limit. But provided you get credit for the portion you do complete I won't have any zeroes when it's over.
You get scored based on the holes you put in your target, never fear. If you don't complete the stage, you don't get points for all ten shots, but you still get the points you earned for the shots you did fire.
I can work with that then. I just won't be accused of being Jack or the weasel doing it. :)
Thanks Fulcrum for posting this encouragement. I'm sure it will help others with similar issues.
I've reposted this reply to the Adaptive Board so it may help more people with issues making the transitions.
Quote from: Fulcrum on February 13, 2026, 12:50:30 PMIf you are laying down or sitting, can you get up off the floor? Is it impossible or just difficult or painful? Being able to get up off the ground is an important part of well-being and safety. I just this week saw an example of how important it is with an elderly family member. It was a pretty sobering experience. You do not want to lose that ability!
If getting up off the ground is difficult for you, you might want to start seeing some kind of physical therapist to work on it. If you can get up, but it's difficult or a bit painful, you might want to check into yoga or see a personal trainer. I'd recommend a professional so you don't hurt yourself or overdo it. Whoever you decide to consult, let them know you want to be able to move from standing to a seated position, preferably cross-legged, and get back up again to standing. Same for prone. Another good reason to start working on it is, even if you can't do the transitions perfectly, you can know your limitations in advance, so you can ask for accommodations and you can avoid overdoing it at your event.
You've got a month or more to work on it, and that's a pretty decent amount of time to make an improvement. I usually have to begin a bit of an exercise routine a month or so before an event to make sure I have the strength, flexibility, and stamina to make it through the day. And that exercise has never failed to make me feel better about myself and how I think of myself outside of Appleseed. Appleseed has been a great motivator for me keep my fitness up, and that's been great for me in the rest of my life. Maybe it will do the same for you. Do it for your overall well-being!
Quote from: LDB415 on February 13, 2026, 02:12:54 PMI can work with that then. I just won't be accused of being Jack or the weasel doing it. :)
Maybe you will be accused of being a Kung Fu Kid doing the "standing up with hands in pockets" move?
Quote from: TheMenace on February 13, 2026, 02:44:03 PMThanks Fulcrum for posting this encouragement. I'm sure it will help others with similar issues.
I've reposted this reply to the Adaptive Board so it may help more people with issues making the transitions.
Hopefully it is helpful. Starting out, I had difficulty with stages 2 and 3, and exercising a bit and practicing the transitions helped me improve. I can do a transition without pain or that much difficulty, but starting out, I was just slow at it, and I seldom got all my shots off. Now I'm a lot better at it after a good number of events and practicing at home. I still like to take an Aleve before an event and one after!
Quote from: Fulcrum on February 13, 2026, 03:07:35 PMQuote from: TheMenace on February 13, 2026, 02:44:03 PMThanks Fulcrum for posting this encouragement. I'm sure it will help others with similar issues.
I've reposted this reply to the Adaptive Board so it may help more people with issues making the transitions.
Hopefully it is helpful. Starting out, I had difficulty with stages 2 and 3, and exercising a bit and practicing the transitions helped me improve. I can do a transition without pain or that much difficulty, but starting out, I was just slow at it, and I seldom got all my shots off. Now I'm a lot better at it after a good number of events and practicing at home. I still like to take an Aleve before an event and one after!
I attended my first Appleseed when I was in my early 50s and I had the same experience. The first time I transitioned, just sitting down with a rifle in my hand was a little challenging. Getting all my shots off in the allotted time seemed implausible. Improve came gradually, but it came.
I'm guessing this isn't sitting in a chair but going from standing to sitting on the ground? I saw mention of cross-legged also. Does that last for long? Sadly my legs will go to sleep in no time, annoyingly enough.
Stage 2 of the AQT is shot from a sitting position. That can be cross-legged, cross-ankled, or kneeling. Most shooters find cross-legged to be most accurate.
We don't want anyone to hurt themselves, so if none of those are practical for you, talk to the instructors. Maybe they can help!
As Zorak mentioned, Stage 2 you start standing, and transition to a seated position on the ground before shooting. That can be with your butt on the ground cross legged, or cross ankled, or legs out front open legged, kneeling with butt not necessarily on the ground, or if those are impractical, you can just shoot it standing. I think there are other accommodations too. The main thing is to not worry about it now and just go. Your instructors will work with you to figure it out. Also, standing back up is not part of the timed drill. You shoot until your last round or the cease fire. Then you take your time to make your rifle safe and stand up off the clock.
I like how you ask a lot of questions, but I think it can also lead to a little overthinking, or analysis paralysis, or trying to outsmart the situation before you are actually in it and can fully understand it. Just go and trust people will help you through the obstacles without judgement. Plan on keeping an open mind, having a "teachable attitude", focusing on learning, improving by increments, enjoying yourself, and you will have a great time! Worry less, and embrace the uncertainty.
I can't wait for you to actually go to your first event! What is it, 6 weeks away? It can't come soon enough!
Yes, 6 very short weeks to be prepared. As opposed to the 16 VERY looooooong weeks waiting for my Mika holster. I have to try to find someone to install the sights on my rifle, a needle to find in the haystack of Houston. I may even be able to do the sling myself. Or, I figure that's simple enough someone at the clinic can help me thread it in properly so I can use it correctly.
I do ask questions. Always have. But getting one answer often leads to two or three additional questions. And almost always interesting stuff to learn and further pursue.
Quote from: LDB415 on February 13, 2026, 09:14:10 PMYes, 6 very short weeks to be prepared. As opposed to the 16 VERY looooooong weeks waiting for my Mika holster. I have to try to find someone to install the sights on my rifle, a needle to find in the haystack of Houston. I may even be able to do the sling myself. Or, I figure that's simple enough someone at the clinic can help me thread it in properly so I can use it correctly.
I do ask questions. Always have. But getting one answer often leads to two or three additional questions. And almost always interesting stuff to learn and further pursue.
I like to ask questions too, but sometimes I go down too many rabbit holes, and I end up
thinking about doing stuff more than actually
doing stuff. Often it's better to just get on with it.
Call up a gunsmith about installing your sights! And watch a video about setting up your sling! It's not hard, as long as your rifle has the sling studs or mounts, and you have the swivels and other hardware. Do it this weekend! Times a-wastin'! On your feet soldier! Go! Go! Go!
Yeah, I've been trying to find a recommendation of a gunsmith. Much prefer referrals than throwing a dart. But I think I'm going to have to throw the dart. And I planned to check YT on the how-to.
Sorry to razz you a bit last night. I meant it in fun, and I really want you to be ready to go to your event and not have a last-minute issue. It's time to get your rifle finished. Mine always take longer to set up than I expect.
If you don't have a gunsmith and don't have a recommendation, you could try an internet search for "gunsmith near me", and then read the online reviews. Pick one based on reviews and give them a call to talk about what you want done. If you don't like what you hear, call the next one. I don't think getting tech sights and/or a sling installed is complex enough to worry about a recommendation or getting the best gunsmith. You might want to have them do both jobs and maybe even zero the sights for you. You'll be taught about zeroing your rifle at the 25m event, but getting it at least approximately sighted in beforehand can save time.
I forget if you are using a brand new rifle or one you've had for awhile, do you have an automatic bolt release plate installed, or do you have to press the bolt release and pull the charging handle at the same time to release it? It's a lot easier if you can just pull the charging handle and not have to press the button. If that's not done already, I'd ask the gunsmith to install an automatic bolt release plate for you too.
Have them set you up so the gun is ready within the next 2 weeks at the latest. Then take it to a range and shoot it, and see if there are any other issues to correct. Especially see if the tech sights are going to work for you. And just practice a bit to get used to running your rifle. It's good if you have familiarity with your rifle. You don't want to be shooting it for the first time at the event.
I really want you to be ready. Will you call the gunsmith today if they are open? Or pick one to call and do it Monday?
Mine is the "new and improved" model 32002 that includes the BX trigger, automatic release, and peep hole for cleaning from the breech. I'm going to put the swivels in as that's just attach them and I'll watch a YT that should show me how to thread the sling. I'm pretty sure I could even work the screwdriver to install the read sight but have no way of working with the dovetailed front so I'll need the gunsmith for that. I've about decided to shoot this first 25M with the factory sights and if it's too much for me to attempt again leave them stock. If I plan to do more as I anticipate then get them changed before the next one.
If you have the newer model rifle, that's great!
It's really helpful to have sights you can adjust by increments of MOA, not just loosen a screw and scoot the sight over. I have not used tech sights, but I think you can adjust them with a knob marked in increments. I use a scope, and scopes generally have turrets with adjustment marks and actual tactile or audible clicks for adjustments. For me, the standard iron sights would not have worked. This is another good reason to get set up and get to the range ASAP to see if your sighting system is going to work for you.
Quote from: TheMenace on February 06, 2026, 02:52:38 PMThe KD manual states that only .22LR will count for score. The rest is Shootboss discretion.
That's correct. So get your patch with .22lr, then you can play with 22 mag if the Shoot Boss and Range are good with it!
Nah, what if I got one of the magnum rimfire and then shot well enough to get a patch. But I wouldn't and my poor patch I got previously couldn't have a twin. :)