Project Appleseed

Road to Rifleman => Skill Sets of Shooting => Topic started by: Kevin_K on October 21, 2025, 10:46:13 PM

Title: COI Addition Suggestion: Rifle Fitment
Post by: Kevin_K on October 21, 2025, 10:46:13 PM
In keeping with the purpose of this board, I would like to put forward a suggestion for an additional topic for the course of instruction or in the "How to Prepare" pdf: rifle fitment.

I recently earned my Rifleman after attending two Appleseed courses from two different locations over the last year. One of the themes I noticed was that students (and probably myself still) had some improperly setup rifle stocks which were causing a lot of discomfort and awkward angles.

Looking back at the course of instruction and review material, there isn't really anything for how students should fit their rifle to their body through length of pull or comb adjustments. It is done pretty ad hoc from instructors as they notice really poor fitting stocks and adjust things through the course of the weekend. If noticed and taken care of earlier, I think students would be more comfortable and have better groups earlier.

I think after the first Redcoat target shoot, but before the sling instruction should be a course on how to set:
1. Length of pull
2. Comb height

Many modern rifles have adjustment options, but for those that don't, the sections of pool noodle will continue to work.

I think this is necessary for the turkey neck cheek weld that is taught in order to have a consistent sight picture.

After learning what a proper rifle fit is, students can decide later how they would like to maintain it (different stock, etc).

I get the whole "run what you brought" concept, I really do, but there is something to be said for making your rifle fit you and not you trying to fit your rifle. Its 2025, standard service rifles have adjustable stock lengths and marksman type rifles have adjustable combs.
Title: Re: COI Addition Suggestion: Rifle Fitment
Post by: mmirate on October 21, 2025, 11:32:10 PM
Some shoot bosses like to emphasize, when teaching Sight Alignment, that you should be completely relaxed when you have sight alignment, and remind the shooters that if they relax and do not see thru the sights, they should please flag down an instructor for help. That's the only direct way to describe it, and it only makes sense after we've already taught how to set up a prone position that you can relax into.

The second-best way to describe this, which doesn't rely on the prone class, would be to the effect that 20th-century US service rifles, with their factory sights, are conducive to the kind of shooting we teach, and that your rifle should fit like one of those rifles, at least in terms of where your triggerside eye lands relative to your trigger finger. (The AR-15 carry-handle sight in particular, with the NTCH technique, is most illuminating as to many hunting rifles' scopes being too far back.) But that loses the length-of-pull axis.
Title: Re: COI Addition Suggestion: Rifle Fitment
Post by: CaptainRebop on October 23, 2025, 05:28:59 PM
I like the idea of having this be in the "How to Prepare" section, but it's a tough thing to self-diagnose if you aren't used to the feeling of NPOA / relaxing into your position.  Some of this can be diagnosed with a phone camera (see an earlier post of mine here: https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=62269.msg397355) but the setup takes a long time.  I'm talking 60 minutes to really get this right.

We've been using the time in the Prone Position exercise for rifle fitment.  In addition to helping shooters find a stable prone position, we have instructors do a quick Carding the Sights drill between the shooters' eyes and their rear sight or optic.  We'll ask shooters to truly relax their bodies (and especially their shoulders and neck) before opening their eyes, and we'll ask them to pay attention to their sight alignment when they open their eyes and the card is removed.  We don't explain the drill until later.

At my last event, the whole exercise for the entire line of 17 shooters took about 20 minutes.  We ran out of foam and vet wrap, but I think only 1 shooter had groups larger than 6-8 MOA on our first sighter square.  10-20 minutes with an Appleseed instructor is (in my opinion) more worth a shooter's time than fiddling around with this at home, as long as it takes place early enough in the weekend to make a difference.

Once a shooter gets a feel for NPOA and really relaxing into their sling and position they are on their way to being a self-sufficient Rifleman who can make adjustments on the fly.  I recently witnessed an experienced shooter at an event in WA who was able to accomplish all of the following during Stage 4 of an AQT: