I attended my first appleseed this weekend with a 10/22 with tech sights. The front sight was wider than the stage 4 targets, at least to my eyes. Have others had the same experience?
Depending on sight radius and all the "stuff", it should be. If it is ~7 MOA wide, that would cover about 28" at 400 yards. I'm not sure exactly of the scaling of the AQT targets, but they represent a roughly 21" wide target, so at 400 yards, the front sight would cover about 5.25 MOA. One stage 3, they should line up quite well with the width of the target.
Thecodar,
Using some napkin math, the 10/22 I have here with Tech Sights gives a front sight width of some 0.06 inches and a front sight to my eyeball distance of 27 inches. Remembering that MOA starts at your eyeball and doing some quick trigonometry, I come up with a front sight representation of 7.88 MOA. Let's call them 7 MOA, which is fairly standard, for the front sight.
Appleseed teaches 4 MOA shooting and our stage 4 target is 1.5 inches wide in the black part, so that would make it a 6 MOA wide target. The full size target is 24 inches wide, and, placing it at 400, would give you the same 6 MOA. A front sight that represents 7 MOA will indeed cover up the stage 4 target at either version of Appleseed.
Remembering sight picture, even with center of target hold, when one breathes out, the sights will lift onto the target and the sight picture with which to shoot, is when half the target is above the plane of the front sight. Using pumpkin on a post, the sight picture would be the bottom edge of the black sits atop the front sight post.
Either sighting method works, and is irrelevant to sight width, as you are looking at the top edge of the front sight, not the sides. It may be easier to see the target and aim correctly using pumpkin on a post, because more target will be visible, and that may help eyes that need a little help.
@ the OP. Yes I had that problem on a 16 inch 10/22. The closer you bring a sight to your eyes, the larger it appears
On my 20 inch Marlin, I did not have this problem as the front sight post is much farther away.
My solution for the 10/22 was buy a smaller sight and install it.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003367825?srsltid=AfmBOopYlBIU8ricW7JwbjcFvlTsHdYaGIM1nZUm47VPPKx_Tm1SfxLP&pid=427154
Thank you all for your feedback! My best score was a 190. I did well on Stages 1-3, but my stage 4 scores were awful! On one AQT, I missed all 4 redcoats completely on stage 4 (I shot a 48 on stage 1 on that round). My groups were typically bigger on 4 than on 3. I am ~50 years old - is it time to switch to an optic?
Quote from: thecodar on September 23, 2025, 12:49:43 PMThank you all for your feedback! My best score was a 190. I did well on Stages 1-3, but my stage 4 scores were awful! On one AQT, I missed all 4 redcoats completely on stage 4 (I shot a 48 on stage 1 on that round). My groups were typically bigger on 4 than on 3. I am ~50 years old - is it time to switch to an optic?
As said previously, try sighting pumpkin-on-a-post method, also called 6 o'clock hold, before you reach for an optic.
thecodar,
How were your shot groups on the squares targets? Were they zeroed nicely in a one inch group or smaller? I'm assuming so since you did very well with a 48 in standing.
When I first started up with Appleseed, on stage 4 of the AQT, I found my first target on the left was good, but then groups would drift off the targets (low and right) for numbers 2, 3 and 4. Why? I was muscling the rifle rather than shifting my NPOA for each stage 4 target. By chance were you muscling the rifle in stage 4?
Also, how are your eyes? I'm 62 and last year I got a new pair of glasses. During the exam with the optometrist I told her that I shoot a lot and I need to be able to focus on the tip of the front sight that is typically 24 to 28 inches from my eye. What a difference! I see my tech sights, actually all my open sights, better than when I was in my 40s. New glasses for shooting make a world of difference.
Scopes do help but only when you're are solid in the fundamentals.
Lastly, if you do go with a scope for your 10/22, please consider the following:
1. get a good quality Rimfire scope-don't go cheap! Be prepared to spend a good $200 or so for a good scope you can trust.
2. Mount it correctly on the rifle. Make sure it is mounted far enough forward so that when you get behind the scope in Prone, your eye has proper eye relief. Way, way too many shooters have their scopes mounted too far to the rear. Where a 10/22 is concerned, you will need cantilever rings or scope base to get the scope far enough forward,
3. I stress getting a Rimfire scope because they're set up correctly (parallax) for the distance at which a rimfire rifle is typically used. I will not go into explaining parallax here.
4. Once the scope is on the rifle, make sure you can get a good cheek weld, and, be able to look straight into the center of the scope's ocular lens. To do that, you probably have to build up the comb of the rifle. There are several makes of comb risers out there. Everyone who uses them have their likes and dislikes. I like the Beartooth comb riser.
In Liberty,
Gus
@Gus - I hadn't thought about the glasses. I wear +1 D for computer at 36". I don't know the distance to the front sight, but it is definitely < 36". Kicking myself for not thinking of that!
How do you know when it is 'scope time?'
I wasn't muscling (after one or two reminders). I just couldn't get a good sight alignment. That said, with a torn left shoulder, prone was agony by day 2.
@Big John: I would prefer to stick with irons. I just didn't want be stubborn and not accept my age!
@DEH I will try a skinnier front post - thank you!
So, please answer, which sighting method are you using? Center of target or pumpkin on a post?
I'm trying to help you to not have to buy..... anything.
Center hold
Ok, try pumpkin on a post. The reasoning is that, while it is less intuitive, and requires some different aiming at the close targets, it is easier to see being as how the whole target is visible when at good sight picture and may strain your eyes less.
As for glasses, there are a few things you can do. You will need a pair of "shooting glasses." Those can be set up a couple different ways. Your other eye can be distance. Your shooting eye can either be all close up focal length, or upside down bifocals. Transitions lenses are not good at this. You don't want "zoomies" because that will magnify the sight, the target, and your wobble, and will psych you out. An actual lens for that distance is the ticket.
I personally run low power centerfire good glass on my rimfires, like hunting grade, decent company stuff like a Leupold VariX II in 2x7x28 or something similar. Your mileage may vary. I do maintain one 10/22 with Tech Sights and am about to maintain another courtesy of a nice NRA grant to Appleseed.
A good tip is to split stage 4 into 4 stages. You have plenty of time to take a minute to shoot each target.
Shoot the first target, rest for 10 seconds. NPOA shift to the next target. Rinse and repeat.
Slow down on stage 4. Use the time.
MAHA
Quote from: Gus on September 23, 2025, 02:09:57 PMthecodar,
How were your shot groups on the squares targets? Were they zeroed nicely in a one inch group or smaller? I'm assuming so since you did very well with a 48 in standing.
When I first started up with Appleseed, on stage 4 of the AQT, I found my first target on the left was good, but then groups would drift off the targets (low and right) for numbers 2, 3 and 4. Why? I was muscling the rifle rather than shifting my NPOA for each stage 4 target. By chance were you muscling the rifle in stage 4?
Also, how are your eyes? I'm 62 and last year I got a new pair of glasses. During the exam with the optometrist I told her that I shoot a lot and I need to be able to focus on the tip of the front sight that is typically 24 to 28 inches from my eye. What a difference! I see my tech sights, actually all my open sights, better than when I was in my 40s. New glasses for shooting make a world of difference.
Scopes do help but only when you're are solid in the fundamentals.
Lastly, if you do go with a scope for your 10/22, please consider the following:
1. get a good quality Rimfire scope-don't go cheap! Be prepared to spend a good $200 or so for a good scope you can trust.
2. Mount it correctly on the rifle. Make sure it is mounted far enough forward so that when you get behind the scope in Prone, your eye has proper eye relief. Way, way too many shooters have their scopes mounted too far to the rear. Where a 10/22 is concerned, you will need cantilever rings or scope base to get the scope far enough forward,
3. I stress getting a Rimfire scope because they're set up correctly (parallax) for the distance at which a rimfire rifle is typically used. I will not go into explaining parallax here.
4. Once the scope is on the rifle, make sure you can get a good cheek weld, and, be able to look straight into the center of the scope's ocular lens. To do that, you probably have to build up the comb of the rifle. There are several makes of comb risers out there. Everyone who uses them have their likes and dislikes. I like the Beartooth comb riser.
In Liberty,
Gus
Generally in agreement with everything Gus said here (smart feller!) plus a number suggestion or two.
My first Appleseed I had tech sights on a 20" barrel and made it to 201. D'oh!
Switched to glass for the second and scored in the 220s.
Now that I have my fundamentals down, I'm back to working on irons.
Scope recommendations: https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/scopes.html
Check riser recommendation: https://store.rwvaappleseed.com/product191.html
Good luck!
Mrs Smith
Go to Midway and buy the KNS ar-15 front sight kit. It has 7 different screw in posts, same as tech sights. There is 1 sight post in that kit that has a tiny round ball. It is perfect for your problem. When I worked the shoots in Fredericksburg a number of years ago I had a relationship with KNS Precision and I sold a lot of these to our shooters. I have a 10/22 set up as a carbine replica. With tech sights and this front post. Works great. Best Regards, Two Wolves
Forgot to mention, it's 28 dollars.