I got Fred's AQT targets. Great deal for the amount of material received and I am just not saying that because he may read this, A lot of stuff for what I paid. Anyway, I have been working the last couple of weeks on my shooting skills.
I have always done a lot of shooting, however mainly IDPA and three gun matches. Never much long range stuff. So I knew from past experince shooting that there is a lot to learn and and I should listen to shooters with experince in this area. It seems like that more you compete the more you realize that you are not as good as you think.
I have shot the AQT around 10 times in the past two weeks. My score are 170 to 190, however I have shot a rifleman score once. I have noticed what kills my score is that my groups are not always on target. In other words I am shooting nice tight groups they are just not always hiting the target.
So does that mean that I am not getting a good check weld or maybe something else? Thanks for any advice in advance.
Sounds like sight picture to me. You have to make sure you put your cheek weld in the same place everytime, otherwise the sight picture changes. With AR's it's an easy fix, the tip of your nose should always touch one of the tips of the charging handle. As for everything else, you can try "turkey necking" by stretching your neck out closer to the rear sight and that will keep your sight picture the same.
Of course, I'm not an instructor, so I'll leave it up to them to correct me if I'm wrong! ;D
Groups that are nice and tight, but yet not always right on target are usually a problem with NPOA, otherwise known as Natural Point Of Aim.
You want to shoot off of bone suport, not muscle. Muscle moves, bone doesn't.
Begin by getting in your prone position, slung up with your elbow under the rifle. You verify elbow under the rifle by breathing in and out with your eyes open, watching the sights. The straighter up and down they go, the better your elbow is under.
Then begin the 6 steps.
Sight Alignment
Sight Picture
Respratory Pause*
The * is where you check NPOA. You:
Close your eyes
RELAX
Breathe in and out
Open your eyes and check your sight picture. Do so on a normal exhale, do not hold your breath half way.
If you are on target correctly, continue with 4a.
If not, trying to remain relaxed and exhaled, shift your hips untill your sights are back where you want them. Hips forward lower the sights, hips back raise. Right shifts sights left, and left shifts right.
Then repeat,
Close your eyes
RELAX
Breathe in and out
Open and check your position.
Repeat this process untill after relaxing and breathing, your sights are still on the target.
This may take many tries untill you first see it. But when you do your sights come right back down on target after every shot with no adjustmet. You will have great cadence, and every shot will feel "good".
NPOA is usually the last thing a shooter needs before beginning to post some really good scores.
I can remember every shot I took the first time I had NPOA, in the sitting position in Ramsuer. So beautiful.
Eventually (and sooner than you think) you will be able to assume a position and be almost right on NPOA right away. One shift and BOOM, you're there.
Presevere!
The Guy
PS spend some time trying this durring dry fire practice at night. It will reap you dividends on Range Day.
Yup, this usually boils down to either NPOA or Stock Weld/Spot Weld.
You've already gotten a handle on the latter, so I have to agree with The Guy, NPOA.
Also, remember, The NAME of the GAME is the SAME. In other words, do the same thing EVERY time, including Spot/Stock Weld, position and get your NPOA.
Thanks for the advice. I have worked on my NPOA, however this is the first time I have had it explained to me in detail. I have been crawling around like a worm to get my sights to shift. I will work with what you have explained above. Thanks again for the advice.
The way NPOA works is so simple.
When the rifle fires, your body naturally relaxes a little, so if you aren't aiming to your relaxed position, the rifle will shift, and the bullet will impact closer to the relaxed point of aim.
If you muscle the rifle onto the target, when you fire the shot, the bullet will no longer impact to that point of aim (usually).
That is why you want to be dead on while relaxed.
Thanks again for the info. I will attempt to concerate on NPOA my next shooting seccsion.
Crystal-clear front site and following through on the shot got me over the hump.
It will probably be slightly different for different folks. The points above by Shaky (I shoot good groups, just not where they should be) and The Guy (NPOA - NPOA) are probably what tell the tale here. As Shaky moves from target to target on the 300 and 400 (simulated) yard targets his groups move. Nice groups, just not where he thought they would be. I had the same issue at my first Appleseed. The SB would come by, look at my target and say, "Nice groups, any idea why its out here?" If I'd known how to find my NPOA then (learned in the Feb. RBC that while I thought I was finding my NPOA, I really wasn't) I'd have been able to put those groups where I wanted them to go.
Keep at it. Don't quit. You'll get there and then you'll be ready to work at helping others get to where you're at.
Don't wait till a range session, PRACTICE at home durring your DRYFIRE time.
Post a small dot accross the room, and practice on it. If you can, have someone run the bolt for you so you can even practice followthrough, by practicing not blinking to call the shot, and by practicing holding the trigger back durring "recoil". Hold the trigger untill whom ever is helping you can run the bolt so you can release only till you hear the click.
After the click, if you are still on, "shoot" again, by the steps.
Kinda like those late night tv ads. "YOU, YES YOU, CAN HAVE BUNS OF STEEL!! EXERCISE FOR 10 MINUTES A NIGHT THREE NIGHTS A WEEK AND GO FROM FAT ASS TO HOT BUNS OF STEEL!!"
Except dry fire actually works. Buns of steel? No. 5 holes in 4MOA? No doubt about it.
The Insomniac Guy
Ran home for a quick range secison at lunch. I concereted on my NPOA of aim and shot a 208. Still having problems with my prone positon. Thanks, for the advice and I hope to work through it when I get a little more time on the range.
6 points of the prone position.
1. Forward hand suporting the rifle. Fingers not gripping, but open and forarm of the rifle in your open palm.
2. Elbow under the rifle as far as you can get it. Be able to feel the mag (if you have one) on the forarm as a good index.
3. Sling creating a triangle between the armpit and the wrist. Sling in a loop and all the way into the armpit. Sling should hold the rifle back into the shoulder pocket tightly. AR with a non free floating forarm need to be firm, not tight.
4. Trigger leg pulled up as tight forward as possible. Lifts the diagphram off the ground so breathing has less an effect on the rifle. Leg pulled up tight also helps absorb recoil.
5. Trigger finger on triger so that the finger touches nothing but the trigger. Does not touch the wood or plastic on the grip at any point.
6. Consistant cheek weld. Extend the neck forward as far as possible every time, then bring it down into line with the sights, creating a consisitant sight alignment.
What is sight alignment? Number one step in firing the shot. What a coincidence....
Reference #3 - ALL rifles should have sling SNUG, but not tight.
If your rifle is canted when you get slung up, the sling is definitely too tight. This is easy for some of us to do with certain rifles, especially me with a 10/22.
I use a much tighter sling than the rest of these guy's use but that's just me and my target shooting backround.
When you are in a good prone position and you breath the sights will go straight up and down through the center of the target. If they move at an angle your position is causing problems. Make sure your support elbow is as close to under the rifle as possible. Before high power shooters switched over to M1A rifles everyone was told to keep their support elbow directly under the rifle but with the M1A and that magazine stuck out the bottom shooters started moving their elbow a little left to clear the magazine.
Of course if you are seven feet tall with long arms you can still get your arm under the rifle and clear the magazine. If you are vertically challanged and have short arms the solution is to trade you M1A for a Garand which doesn't have the D**n magazine getting in the way.
When you are in position relax completely. Are your sights still on the center of the target? If so you have found your natural point of aim. If not, start doing the dance as Fred calls it to find your NPOA.
Once you can relax with your sights passing vertically through the center of the target hold your breath when the sight is centered on the target. Focus your vision as hard as you can on the front sight. As you pick up this hard focus correct any errors in your sight alignment. Remember, the front sight must be centered in the rear sight which is accomplished with your spot weld and the top of the front sight must be on your aiming point on the target. As you are focusing and correcting your alignment you take up the slack and continue to increase pressure on the trigger. As the weapon fires continue to focus on the front sight and hold the trigger through recoil. Don't stare at the front sight for a long time. Your vision will fade out. As you pick up your focus you should be applying pressure to the trigger.
If you do these things you will have a small group. If you don't do these things you will have a large group.
Doug in Virginia
VAshooter
Quote from: Nickle on August 24, 2007, 05:42:23 PM
If your rifle is canted when you get slung up, the sling is definitely too tight. This is easy for some of us to do with certain rifles, especially me with a 10/22.
Oh, regarding that, the 1907-style sling(by Uncle Mike's) on my 1903 seems just a notch too tight as far as it can go, and I have noticed it canting in the prone(sometimes it's so tight the rifle will actually try to slide out of my shoulder pocket!). Does anyone know if the Uncle Mike's version of the 1907 sling is shorter than the standard? The only markers I see on the cardboard insert it came with(I kept it incase I forgot how to put it back on ;D) is #2611-3 and 1-1/4(which I assume is the width).
I purchased it only because I didn't want to buy the brownells version, which is about 50 dollars... :(
Any advice would be appreciated!
Yeah, get a 1907 type sling (also known as a Military sling) that is also for an AR. The AR requires a longer sling than the 1903, M1, M14.
Myself, I'm a fan of the USGI web sling.