So I am contemplating electronic ear buds for noise suppression/hearing enhancement and wondered what my fellow instructors/shooters would recommend.
So far tje brands I have researched online are the Walker,Ear Pro,and Axil.
I have yet to pull the trigger on a pair myself, but I have seen alot of the AXIL ones popping up at various classes. Those are the ones on my short list.
We have an expert in the Tennessee Valley on this - he works in the hearing aid industry.
I hope I paraphrase his recommendation correctly: foam plugs and over the ear muffs.
He would prefer not to have any of us as customers.
Quote from: Maximum Ordinate on August 08, 2024, 12:36:10 PMWe have an expert in the Tennessee Valley on this - he works in the hearing aid industry.
I hope I paraphrase his recommendation correctly: foam plugs and over the ear muffs.
He would prefer not to have any of us as customers.
Good recommendation, unfortunately a bit late for me as my poor choices when I was younger have degraded my hearing and give me a spectacular case of tinnitus ☹️
Geek likes axil. I like walkers razor.
I've been using the Walker ear buds for about 3 years now, I like them better than over the ear hearing protection. They're rated at 29 db NRR, which is actually greater NRR than the over the ear protection. These are the ones I use:
https://www.walkersgameear.com/rope-hearing-enhancer/ (https://www.walkersgameear.com/rope-hearing-enhancer/)
I've used the 3m peltor ear plugs for about 10 years. They get 30db attenuation with the foam tips.
Hello all,
I am in the hearing aid industry. As Maximum Ordinate said, I recommend the foam earplugs coupled with earmuffs as they give the best possible hearing protection. Foam plugs have the best Noise Reduction Ratio(NRR), typically 30 dB. Those coupled with electronic ear muffs, which are around 20 DB NRR give you the best hearing protection and allow you to still hear line commands. I do not recommend the electronic earplugs by themselves for 2 reasons.
1. They give, at most 25 DB NRR. And 25 dB is a stretch A centerfire rifle shot is around 160 DB, and a 22 is around 140. With only 25 dB NRR, one is still hearing percussions of 135 dB with centerfire and 125dB with a 22. At the end of a long day on the line, that isn't enough protection and one's hearing will still be damaged.
2. The seal isn't always the best on them. A bad seal = less protection = more hearing damage.
When foam ear plugs are coupled with electronic muffs, 50 dB NRR can be effectively achieved. The brings a centerfire rifle blast down to 110 dB, and a 22 down to 90.
Protect your hearing, as much as possible.
Hope this helps
Quote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PMelectronic ear muffs
Obviously foam earplug fitment will be subject to significant anatomical variability; but do you have any particular recommendations on electronic ear muffs? Most of the price variability I see comes from auxiliary features like communications; and in particular I've found that Howard Leight Impact Pro and Impact Sport muffs do not provide a strong seal, dislodging easily under cheek weld (or even shotguns from the neighboring booth indoors!).
Quote from: mmirate on August 08, 2024, 02:53:26 PMQuote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PMelectronic ear muffs
Obviously foam earplug fitment will be subject to significant anatomical variability; but do you have any particular recommendations on electronic ear muffs? Most of the price variability I see comes from auxiliary features like communications; and in particular I've found that Howard Leight Impact Pro and Impact Sport muffs do not provide a strong seal, dislodging easily under cheek weld (or even shotguns from the neighboring booth indoors!).
I use Peltor rangemasters currently, but I replaced the foam with a gel (found on the online a-z store). The seal and comfort was significantly increased.
Quote from: mmirate on August 08, 2024, 02:53:26 PMQuote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PMelectronic ear muffs
Obviously foam earplug fitment will be subject to significant anatomical variability; but do you have any particular recommendations on electronic ear muffs? Most of the price variability I see comes from auxiliary features like communications; and in particular I've found that Howard Leight Impact Pro and Impact Sport muffs do not provide a strong seal, dislodging easily under cheek weld (or even shotguns from the neighboring booth indoors!).
I use Sordin muffs with gel ear pads. Gel ear pads will give the best seal.
I have the Axil wired ear plugs. Love em, and a charge lasts the whole weekend. I looked at the wireless but I expect I'd end up losing them. The wired ones I clip to my collar. Also talks to my phone.
I have a pair of the Axil GS Extreme 2.0's and I really, really want to like them, but...
None of the tips fit me. After a day of using them, my ear canals HURT. I bought them at a time when they were "buy one get one free", and sent the other pair to a friend of mine and he reports the same thing.
A month or so ago, I asked my audiologist about this type of hearing protection and he recommended Soundgear Phantoms, but they list at $1,600, and your insurance may or may not help with that. I have not gotten a definitive answer from my insurance company.
Quote from: Burnett on August 08, 2024, 04:02:28 PMI have a pair of the Axil GS Extreme 2.0's and I really, really want to like them, but...
None of the tips fit me. After a day of using them, my ear canals HURT. I bought them at a time when they were "buy one get one free", and sent the other pair to a friend of mine and he reports the same thing.
A month or so ago, I asked my audiologist about this type of hearing protection and he recommended Soundgear Phantoms, but they list at $1,600, and your insurance may or may not help with that. I have not gotten a definitive answer from my insurance company.
You might look online for smaller tips.
I have the Axil Ghost Stryke model. They're fine for rimfire only events. They are unpleasant around Centerfire. The electronic noise attenuation is too intense, I've have had them cover up the sound of the hit on steel in pistol competitions, so I shot more than I needed to on a target. They are great for music, mowing the lawn, etc.
Quote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PM1. They give, at most 25 DB NRR. And 25 dB is a stretch A centerfire rifle shot is around 160 DB, and a 22 is around 140. With only 25 dB NRR, one is still hearing percussions of 135 dB with centerfire and 125dB with a 22. At the end of a long day on the line, that isn't enough protection and one's hearing will still be damaged.
I was told that even though a 22LR isn't as loud it is actually worse since the frequency is higher. Is that true?
Quote from: scuzzy on August 08, 2024, 04:54:04 PMQuote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PM1. They give, at most 25 DB NRR. And 25 dB is a stretch A centerfire rifle shot is around 160 DB, and a 22 is around 140. With only 25 dB NRR, one is still hearing percussions of 135 dB with centerfire and 125dB with a 22. At the end of a long day on the line, that isn't enough protection and one's hearing will still be damaged.
I was told that even though a 22LR isn't as loud it is actually worse since the frequency is higher. Is that true?
I actually don't know the answerto that, but will find out.
Quote from: Mrs. Smith on August 08, 2024, 03:30:45 PMI have the Axil wired ear plugs. Love em, and a charge lasts the whole weekend. I looked at the wireless but I expect I'd end up losing them. The wired ones I clip to my collar. Also talks to my phone.
That's an interesting idea. Never thought of clipping them to my shirt!
Quote from: Jayshoneybunny on August 08, 2024, 04:32:13 PMYou might look online for smaller tips.
I have. No joy. I have actually purchased some of those Radian putty things that you mix together and squish into your ear and they cure to form custom fit plugs. Thought I might do that and drill small holes through them and glue the Axil buds into them, but now the Axils have quit working on one side. :wb:
I have the Walkers. I love them - especially for use with .22. I have been known to wear them with muffs when shooting centerfire. It would be amazing to find a muff that doesn't get in the way when shooting.
Quote from: JustKim on August 08, 2024, 08:46:09 PMI have the Walkers. I love them - especially for use with .22. I have been known to wear them with muffs when shooting centerfire. It would be amazing to find a muff that doesn't get in the way when shooting.
Share if you do! You are why I have walkers. :1luvu
https://www.otto-comm.com/noizebarriermicro
These are not cheap but they are widely regarded as excellent for both hearing protection and for making it easy to hear conversations. I've been using them in center-fire run and gun biathlons for a while, as a competitor and an RO. I have nothing but good things to say about them. And one charge lasts for a very very long time, since the box itself recharges the buds when you put them away.
Quote from: NJrefugee on August 09, 2024, 04:39:48 PMhttps://www.otto-comm.com/noizebarriermicro
These are not cheap but they are widely regarded as excellent for both hearing protection and for making it easy to hear conversations. I've been using them in center-fire run and gun biathlons for a while, as a competitor and an RO. I have nothing but good things to say about them. And one charge lasts for a very very long time, since the box itself recharges the buds when you put them away.
I have a pair of these as well. If there existed disposable foamies of the same size and material as the foam Noizebarrier tips, I'd be a big fan of those - the foam tips fit my ear canals better than any disposable foamies I've ever tried.
Like most electronic hearing protection, I have to turn off the Noizebarriers' electronics before the LOAD command, because I find that the electronics' cutoff level is well above what I find painful. Even when the firing line is inactive, the "low" setting on the Noizebarriers will reproduce conversations slightly louder than my naked ear. (I have no clue how anyone puts up with the "high" setting - that one hurts when people are talking!)
By contrast, my new Sordins (thank you for the recommendation, TallTimber!), at the minimum setting, adjust themselves in a few other ways such that that setting is usable during live fire.
You're welcome for the recommendation mmirate.
Here is the bottom line, 20dB NRR isn't enough protection for sustained gunfire on the firing line. That is why I recommended the disposable foam ear plugs, which give 30 dB NRR AND earmuffs. The foam plugs are cheap, easy to use, fit 90% of ears, and are comfortable enough for sustained use. Using both get you to about 50dB NRR, which is significantly better.
The issue with sound pressure is, it is logorythmic. For every 10dB increase, there is a 10x increase in the pressure exerted. That among other reasons is why we feel the pressure so much when the sound hits our eardrums. The more protection one has, the better off the longterm negative effects of working firing lines will be.
To the person who asked about the loud sound of a 22 is worse due to the high frequency of the sound, I haven't had time to research white papers on the subject. Sorry.
Being around sustained gunfire isn't good for your hearing. Protect what you have for as long as you can, otherwise, you'll be seeing me or someone like me soon.
After this weekends event, where we used a whistle to ensure the Cease Fire Command was heard, I can now confirm that a whistle can/will overwhelm the noise cancelation of my electronic muffs.
Might have been the SB standing right behind me, but I certainly was not missing that ;D
Quote from: ChuckA on August 20, 2024, 11:20:17 AMAfter this weekends event, where we used a whistle to ensure the Cease Fire Command was heard, I can now confirm that a whistle can/will overwhelm the noise cancelation of my electronic muffs.
Might have been the SB standing right behind me, but I certainly was not missing that ;D
I hold most of my events in an indoor range. Even with all the instructors shouting cease fire, and only 22s on the line, we're inside a concrete box. If I have more than 10 or 12 shooters, the command simply cannot be heard.
My solution is a marine air horn >:D a one second blast at the beginning of cease fire cuts through everything, including the centerfires.
We started using an air horn for long lines and pistol events when needed. A fellow instructor had his electronic muffs fail while using a 308 and lost a large portion of his hearing in the speech frequencies. I ordered my center fire can shortly there after.
I will probably double up hearing protection from now on as my tinnitus has gotten worse in the last few years.
I can't wear foam plugs. Well to be fair I can, I just don't like to. Not comfortable for long periods, never seem to stay in.
I have two pairs of custom molded plugs. One pair is rated at 37db. I'll wear those on their own, unless I'm near someone else's center-fire. Then I double up with a pair of the Howard light electronic ear muffs.
I've got the Axil wired plugs as well - I'm happy with the performance, but I do need to reseat them every 20 minutes or so, they keep working loose.
Quote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 03:17:13 PMQuote from: mmirate on August 08, 2024, 02:53:26 PMQuote from: TallTimber on August 08, 2024, 02:44:20 PMelectronic ear muffs
Obviously foam earplug fitment will be subject to significant anatomical variability; but do you have any particular recommendations on electronic ear muffs? Most of the price variability I see comes from auxiliary features like communications; and in particular I've found that Howard Leight Impact Pro and Impact Sport muffs do not provide a strong seal, dislodging easily under cheek weld (or even shotguns from the neighboring booth indoors!).
I use Sordin muffs with gel ear pads. Gel ear pads will give the best seal.
Here's another vote for the Sordins. I've used Peltors, Pro Ears, Howard Leight and some others. The Sordins are the only ones that I can wear comfortably all day, and the gel pads mean you get a great seal.
I recently went to an audiologist to have custom ear pro made for me. However it wasn't exactly cheap.
Quote from: AdmiralKirk on September 09, 2024, 08:49:17 PMI recently went to an audiologist to have custom ear pro made for me. However it wasn't exactly cheap.
Which brand are you getting?
DefendEar Digital Hunter
I have tried a few different types of electronic plugs. Since HSA/FSA money will cover "ear plugs" and not "muffs", I have used some leftover money at the end of the year to try a few different types.
Etymotic Gunnsport Pro: These offer great hearing protection and offer the most natural hearing when on the normal setting. I found these the most comfortable, with the typical 3 flange silicone inserts. These are my favorites, except they use the hearing aid batteries, which have a 6-7 day lifespan. This is whether you use them or not, it's just how the battery works when you pull the little film tab off. Since these batteries are also covered by FSA money, it's not a big deal but still a bit of a pain in the butt.
Walker Silencer plugs: These came with the case to charge them, which works great. I found these very uncomfortable and the sound wasn't very good. The phone app to use them was also a PITA and I don't think it even works anymore.
I recently got the Caldwell emax shadows with bluetooth. They are fairly comfortable, have a good charging case like the walkers, but the sound is absolutely horrible. I also hate the touch sensitive volume/phone connection "buttons", as I always turn them on/off or my phone starts playing music when I put them in, which is irritating as hell when you're at the firing line when it happens.
Overall, I like the Etymotics best of the 3, but they are also the most expensive and don't have bluetooth. I"m hoping Etymotic will come out with some rechargeable buds with bluetooth in the near future, as I will try them immediately.