Hello Fellow Appleseeders,
I am going to the Appleseed event in Corpus Christi, TX this weekend, April 18-19. I wanted to use my Garand as it is my mil surp of choice. I have been hand loading center fire rifle ammo for nearly 30 years, but have never loaded for an Semi Auto. I've loaded for many bolt guns, but never my M-1. Due to the fact that I have not kept up with my inventory of cartridges and I was shocked to find that I only could round up 99 rounds I need to load some. I can't buy any loaded rounds close by and don't have time to get any from Midway or any other place before Saturday. Yeah, poor planning on my part. I thought I'd just go to Wally World and pick up five boxes. Well seeing that I'm a hand loader I don't buy much loaded ammo. I knew there were shortages around the country but never dreamed Walmart would run out of something so common as 30-06 ammo. Now I've called everywhere and there is nothing around here. I have brass, bullets, powder, and primers to load me up another 100 rounds or so. I actually ordered some bullets from Midway and should have them tomorrow. If not, I have some Nosler Ballistic Tips, though more expensive that I'd want to use for this, I can use in a pinch. However I do not have a crimping die. and Nosler Ballistic Tips don't have a cannelure anyway. I have read that it is not necessary to crimp bullets into a cannelure to be shot in an M-1 Garand, that there is enough neck tension to hold them without problems. Can anyone here comment on this? What is the answer? Do I need to crimp or can it be ignored?
No crimp for M1 Garand loading.
Please be careful to follow a load recipe that is specifically designed for the gas system of the M1 Garand to prevent potential damage to the oprod. (Or use an adjustable gas plug to avoid this problem)
That's a really good question. For whatever my opinion is worth (probably not much), I worry about bullet setback during the fairly violent path from the mag to the chamber. I don't want to risk a compressed load.
What I do is use a Lee Factory Crimp die. I set the bullet to the C.O.L. that I want using my RCBS seat/crimp die, but I have it adjusted so it only seats without any crimp. Then I run it through the Lee Factory Crimp die as a separate operation.
The Lee Factory Crimp die doesn't really put a tight crimp in the mouth of the case. Instead it sort of puts a kind of squeeze on the case mouth.
I figure, if anything, it works the brass less, and therefore prolongs case life.
BTW, I share your pain regarding the out of stock situation with ammo.
I'm just glad I bought that (still unopened) crate of Greek from the CMP a couple of years ago. Saving it for a rainy day.
First off, I've never crimped reloads for my M1A or M1s.
Second, if you think an M1 has a violent "loading action" you should watch wildman work the bolt on his 03A3. Man, I thought he was gonna twist the bolt handle off that thing. ;) Coming and going. ;) I'll bet his reloads line up to be shot in his M1. @)
I use a light Lee Factory Crimp for more consistent neck tension/starting pressure without neck turning.
Snake,
Check out this thread http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=276.0 lots of good info.
Guy
More free pennies. :D As long as you have enough neck tension and your M1 is running right - no worries. If something is seriously out of whack it is the only way you're likely to plant a tip from a round into the feedramp divider and set back the bullet. The most common problem seen with loose neck tension in semi-auto "cartridge" pullers; :( the inertia accelerates the cartridge away from the bullet which being more massive resists the moment of inertia longer, and your now lengthened rounds stop feeding. Same sort of thing that makes revolvers into un-volvers with hot loads and loose necks.:o
The thread linked above has oodles of compressed experience....great stuff. O0
Quote from: Old Dog on April 16, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
First off, I've never crimped reloads for my M1A or M1s.
Second, if you think an M1 has a violent "loading action" you should watch wildman work the bolt on his 03A3. Man, I thought he was gonna twist the bolt handle off that thing. ;) Coming and going. ;) I'll bet his reloads line up to be shot in his M1. @)
Gosh, I am not quite sure what to say except that sometimes seconds count and I haven't broken a bolt handle yet.
I crimp for my gas rifles don't really see a down side I use a Dillion taper crimp die at least that's what I think its called.
Thanks everybody for your advice. I had read years back that you should never use slow powders like IMR or H 4350 or 4831 because these could bend your op rod. I never thought much about IMR 4064. What about IMR 3031? I thought it was a fast enough powder that it wouldn't cause problems in a Garand with a safe load. I do have some IMR 4895 that I'll probably use. Also I have been told that my standard RCBS Bullet Seating die would crimp the brass into the cannalure. Is this a fact?
To crimp, or not to crimp, that is the question; whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous bullet setback, or to take up dies, and brass, and bullets, and by too far opposing the press ram, overcrimp them.
I use IMR-4895 and H-380 to load for my M1. Both where used to load USGI ammo. I have really found no need to use anything else. Hatcher reported that in tests they could find no difference in the accuracy of ammo based on the powder used.
Yes, a set of standard RCBS dies (really all dies) provide a crimping section in the die; it depends on where you set your bullet seating punch and die. You set the seating punch so that the bullet is set to the proper COL. The die will be set high enough in your press that no crimping takes place. Then as a second operation you back the seating punch out and lower the die in the press until the crimp portion of the die crimps the case mouth into the cannalure.
As an aside, the Lee FCD will put a cannalure in a bullet that does not have one; BUT it raises the pressures to dangerous levels. Sierra published research into this years ago.
Quote from: douglas34474 on April 17, 2009, 11:48:30 AM
As an aside, the Lee FCD will put a cannalure in a bullet that does not have one; BUT it raises the pressures to dangerous levels. Sierra published research into this years ago.
Using a light crimp this has not been my experience.
I set my die to just make a very slight crimp using the standard RCBS seating die. It's just barely noticeable.
I would agree that used to make a very light crimp, you probably would not raise pressures.
The Lee FCD will deform the bullet if used too hard; and Lee recommended doing this. They claimed that their FCD would put a cannalure in a bullet that had none. Used in this manner, IMHO you invite problems.
I use one religiously on my 30-30, even 357 and 44 Mags. For those round it is great. no question. But I have not seen a need for it on the '06.
The 173 grain Match bullet used in USGI ammo has no cannalure, just as an FYI.