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Are you using the set screw that came with it? Loctite the set screw.
And yes, sometimes they come loose even with loctite. They are still the best sight for the 10/22.
I had used blue loctite on the front sight hex screw and thought I had it tightened good but it came loose when I had to pound out the bolt pin that was painted. I took out the hex screw and drilled a dimple in the base of the dovetail with the front sight in position. It gave the hex screw something to seat in and prevent the front sight from moving. A little blue loctite on the hex screw again, retightened and no problems since.
I would think Red loctite in the dovetail should hold it too.
Joe
Hello Group; The dovetail on the barrel and the sight should get a coating of locktite, the set screw also and should be torqued to spec. DO NOT GET ANY on the detent for the front sight, I would remove the front sight and the detent & spring during this operation to be sure it does not take much and the detent will be frozen with no good way to repair. This only an observation of what I have seen and how I make the repair. The sights that have been installed in this manner will give good service. If you want another type get Lyman globe target front and rear, or a Williams rear and the Lyman front globe. The choice is yours but in each case one must be carefull during the install and use the tools properly to get the best from the sight no matter what choice you make. Keep Them in the black, Pappy
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My front (tech sights) sight was sloppy in the factory dovetail. A hammer/punch on the edges bent them down a little and a hammer and center punch on the base (it's called stippling) roughed up the surface and raised up little ridges around the dimples. That made the tech sight much tighter in the dovetail and then locktite on the threads of the set screw (I used blue, too).
The purpose of the Tech Sights is to give you a GI rifle type sight picture and to make sight adjustments easy and repeatable. There are other peep sights but I don't know of any for the same money with the same features.
I've installed 2 sets of Tech Sights on 10/22's. The first would fall completely through the dovetail, the second had to be stoned to fit at all. The first fell off the rifle twice at an AS after being blue loctited. It was red loctited and has stayed on for over 2,000 rds since w/ no problem.
I have no experience with Williams 10/22 sights. I've just put Tech-Sights on an SKS and now the Williams' that I took off of are it for sale cheap.
G
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Quote from: UwharrieTrail40 on March 22, 2009, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: CaptG on March 22, 2009, 11:03:54 PM
I've installed 2 sets of Tech Sights on 10/22's. The first would fall completely through the dovetail, the second had to be stoned to fit at all. The first fell off the rifle twice at an AS after being blue loctited. It was red loctited and has stayed on for over 2,000 rds since w/ no problem.
I have no experience with Williams 10/22 sights. I've just put Tech-Sights on an SKS and now the Williams' that I took off of are it for sale cheap.
G
Man, that is some sorry machining on that front dovetail. I really gotta wonder what these Tech Sights are truly worth if the front sight falls out or slides out that easily. I mean seriously. Sounds like a defective product to me.
Eric
Once you get the kinks worked out there's none better for our purposes.
However, like anything else in life, you need to find your own truth one way or the other, Sir.
d
UT40,
What WCM said. once you get them to stay, they're great.
Guy
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Quote from: UwharrieTrail40 on March 22, 2009, 11:27:31 PM
Quote from: Old Dog on March 22, 2009, 10:56:06 PM
My front (tech sights) sight was sloppy in the factory dovetail. A hammer/punch on the edges bent them down a little and a hammer and center punch on the base (it's called stippling) roughed up the surface and raised up little ridges around the dimples. That made the tech sight much tighter in the dovetail and then locktite on the threads of the set screw (I used blue, too).
The purpose of the Tech Sights is to give you a GI rifle type sight picture and to make sight adjustments easy and repeatable. There are other peep sights but I don't know of any for the same money with the same features.
Thanks for your advice. Williams FP sights for Ruger 10/22 have roughly the same features, for example adjustable windage and elevation, but arent "GI" in appearance.
Eric
It's not that they're adjustable, they're "click" adjustable. O0
Good luck, Sir.
d
When I installed my front TechSight, last spring, I pushed it a little too far, that did not help, tightened the set screw and sighted-in. So far, so good. Shortly thereafter attented my second AS shoot. About half way through my groups fell apart. Left dejected. Next day went went to range. Bad shooting. Then I noticed my front sight was very loose.
This is what I did:
Peened the front sight base. Built up the bottom of the front sight w/ epox. Next day, uniformed epox w/ file,,,checked for fit, looked gtg, used Loctite on bases & bottom of set screw hole,,,pushed into position w/ sight-pusher. Seems to have worked.
d
I'm not so certain it's a tech-sight problem... It could be a ruger problem. (wallyworld 22in.)
I had to drift mine in, I then made the mistake of only blue-locktiting the set screw.
It lasted about 500 rounds before sliding off. I've since used blue locktite on the whole base and it's been good for about 2500 rounds.
Back to my origional point. Even the factory sight on my ruger was not a good fit. It was crooked when I bought it(I figured I was swithching it anyway, so I didn't care too much)
A note about Walmart-(I don't mean to bash them)-They have the buying power to have stuff specifically made to their specifications. Which tend to be the cheapest possible. They are quantity people, not quallity. (I know several people who have worked for companies contracting merchandise for Walmart.) Yes, some of their stuff is made in the U.S.A.
But once you work out the kinks. You're set. I would stick with the Tech Sights.
Hello Group; Another thought one should remember is you should degrease with a high grade solvent like naptha or MEK the area prior to using the locktite the dovetail and the set scerw, You just need to be smarter than the tools your working with, Tighten the screws up!! dimples inside the dovetail will help!!peening the dove tail area on the barrel will work but remember folks the front sight base is aluminum!!!!!! The use of any loctight product is highly recomended to solve the dovetail fitting issue, also you do not need 24 hours of wait time for loctite 20 min and it is done. Go to the range and quit :'( PAPPY
"I'm not so certain it's a tech-sight problem... It could be a ruger problem."
"Back to my origional point. Even the factory sight on my ruger was not a good fit. It was crooked when I bought it(I figured I was swithching it anyway, so I didn't care too much)"
Aftermath makes a good point. I'm sure this isn't the first time some of us have had to deal w/ fitting or re-fitting a part. But it seems it might be someting to be aware of w/ this particular combination. Prior to fitting the tech sight I shot the 10/22 very little . Now it gets to the range regularly. Another point, keep an eye on the action screw on the 10/22, it likes to work loose.
d
Solder has to be hot enough to melt (no big deal with the soldering gun/iron) but in order to make the solder stick to the front sight or the base they also have to be heated by the solder gun enough to about the melting point of the solder. Unless you have one heck of a soldering gun it'll be awful tough to get those big chunks of metal that hot.
It would also complicate things if you ever have to change-out.
d
Quote from: UwharrieTrail40 on March 24, 2009, 02:51:53 AM
And tightened it good. So tight, it pushed up on the front of the dovetail and made a very slight crack.
This is what I did to install my front sight, except I didn't bother with the loctite. Been a few thousand rounds down the barrel since then and no problems. Mechanical force is all you need to solve any problem.
OK, everybody sit down....after a couple of dropoffs (yes, it fell off) using blue Loctite and as much elbow grease as I dared, I found a good 25m zero by keeping the rear site centered and moving the front site, then ran a bead of super glue around the dovetail. Has anyone passed out yet?
Yeah, I know it's a bit sloppy and irreversible, but it's kind of a special purpose rifle, and I've had no problems in the last three Appleseeds.
Just a thought for those seeking quick, low tech fixes!
Snap
Quote from: UwharrieTrail40 on March 22, 2009, 11:33:44 PM
They make something even stronger than red loctite, green is even tougher. Maybe the front sight needs green Permatex loctite?
Careful--Green Locktite is designed to seep into already assembled components--It can spread into areas where you don't want it to go
d
After hearing all these problems I was concerned what I would run into when I put my tech sights on. But it went great with the front sight being a nice snug fit, taps from a small hammer to install. When I switched to my M1 it was nice having a familiar look.
Quote from: UwharrieTrail40 on March 24, 2009, 02:51:53 AM
I think I solved the problem! :) What I did was, checked the tightness of the set screw and while I thought I had set it tight when I originally installed it last week, it was quite loose. I dont know why, Ive only shot it ten times. I did find some gun oil down in the set screw hole, as I had oiled the front sight liberally. Maybe the oil got in there and messed up the loctite, I dont know. I know Im not oiling the front sight again, that is for sure.
Why did you oil the front sight, of all things?
And another thought on why there are problems fitting some rifles. The 10/22 has been made for some FORTY-FIVE years. It's entirely possible that they've changed the dovetail size over the years and we're seeing the results of that. Certainly I've never had any issues with Tech-sights, and I've put them on 4 different LTRs.
Quote from: dwarven1 on April 21, 2009, 11:22:27 AM
And another thought on why there are problems fitting some rifles. The 10/22 has been made for some FORTY-FIVE years. It's entirely possible that they've changed the dovetail size over the years and we're seeing the results of that. Certainly I've never had any issues with Tech-sights, and I've put them on 4 different LTRs.
I purchased 2 sets of Tech Sights.
I installed them on two Ruger 10/22's
Each 10/22 was less than 6 months old.
1 Carbine: Front sight fit perfectly, had to be drifted in with a brass punch.
1 10/22T using the Tech Sight .920 barrel adapter: The front sight fit is so poor as to be visibly mis-machined. (Note: This is two tech-sight products being connected to each other as designed by the manufacturer, and the fit is ugly/sloppy)
My first Tech Sights front base fit very badly, it was too small. As I tightened the set screw it moved upward, not fitting properly in the dovetail.
I emailed them, and they sent me a new one, no charge, where they handpicked one in the bigger end of the tolerance range, and it fits fine, no problems since.
Mine's not pretty either, when you look at the rifle from the side (have a lot of trouble hitting the target when held this way though >:D).
From the back I can't tell the front sight is tipped slighly upward by the set screw and the large dove tail (or is it small front sight?). The locktite seems to have held up fine. It's been through an RBC, a couple of Appleseeds (loaned to folks needing rifles, but they didn't have problems with it) and several trips to the range with me (no problems there either).
I like them because they beat the heck out of the Ruger factory sights for my type of shooting
and
because they give a similar sight picture to my big rifles.
It's a great thing there's so much variety out there, in likes/dislikes out there and different products. If we all like the same things there would be some real shortages and no one would try new things and find some there were better.
Anybody else wanna beat this dead horse some more??
d
I ordered and installed a set with little problem.
The bottom of the front sight had to be dressed a little to fit the dovetail; no big deal, just normal fitting of parts. Backed the set screw out about half way, placed a liberal drop of RED Locktite (#271) in the bottom of the tapped hole, enough that it would run into the dovetail, installed the sight, tightened the set screw and I have had no problems.
But my parts were CLEAN before I tried to assemble them.
The rearward tilt some complain of has no effect on the sight picture.
The Williams sight Eric pointed to is nowhere near as easy to use. I know, I have one on my 30-30 Marlin. The part is still aluminum, just as the Tech Sight is. You need a screw driver to adjust it, the TS just needs the tip of a bullet or pin. Also, you're going to have to figure out what front sight to use. You also have to guess as to the adjustment as there are no clicks to aid in job.
To each his own.
I had Williams sights on my SKS. It now has Tech-sights. The Williams' are for sale.
G
If you want to spend $90 on a Williams rear sight, then pay a gunsmith another $50+ to drill and tap the receiver on a rifle that cost less than $200, I say go for it. But you'll still have the factory front sight. Geez it's a Ruger 10/22 for not an Anschutz!
I'll pay the $45 for the Tech-Sights (Compete set) and put a little TLC into the installation. A Rifleman doesn't blame his equipment, he just makes it work.
vmt
I originally had some problems with fit, but I ended up turning the front sight around so that the flat side faces the shooter and the fit actually improved. Shot it at the April 19 Appleseed and did pretty good with it.
Quote from: Ashes on April 28, 2009, 09:54:06 AM
I originally had some problems with fit, but I ended up turning the front sight around so that the flat side faces the shooter and the fit actually improved. Shot it at the April 19 Appleseed and did pretty good with it.
A rifleman perseveres, adapts, overcomes, etc. I wonder if anyone else thought of this? I certainly didn't.
Thanks for the idea, I'll try it on the next one.
d
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I can't tell you how many people I have seen shoot a rifleman's score with Tech-sights and they are far from "piss poor". Have you actually gone to the range and tried them? If you think they are that bad, instead of character assassinating a company that has helped promote Appleseed, go out and buy and use whatever sights you are more comfortable with. This thread has really gone 3 pages !?!? WOW!
UT40,
Sounds like you've done your homework and have your gear about ready to go. As you mentioned Ramseur is close, I live in Greensboro. We also have another shoot about an hour and a half North in Yanceyville.
Seems that you've done the right thing by selecting equipment that is right for you and makes you feel good. I'm the same. I looked around and found a Rem 597 Tech Rifle at Dicks. It's the one with the thumbhole stock and carbon fiber painted barrel. Put a Sweet 22 scope on it and it'll shoot little cloverleafs at 25 yards with it's favorite ammo, Thunderbolts of all things.
Used the 597 to make Rifleman one day then brought the AR for the second day. Standard sights, well nearly, and shot 15 points better with open sights. Was I suprised, must have been more comfortable with it.
Take a look at out shoot schedule and get signed up. You're welcome to try out an LTR that I put together for a loaner. It hasn't made a rifleman yet, but it is capable, and is just loo0king for that.
Send me a PM when you get signed up.
Regards,
bulkhead
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Eric,
Everythings big in Texas.
Sorry I haven't kept up with the complete thread, but it sounds like you haven't decided to attend an Appleseed yet? Are you interested in attending an appleseed? If so you'll be more than welcomed by everyone.
For me the equipment plays a small part in the training. The basics you learn at Appleseed wll make you a rifleman with any rifle capable of shooting 4MOA. The basics are; position, NPOA, and trigger control. Loss of any one of these will cause groups to fall apart.
Last Appleseed in Yanceyville we had a 9 year old with his father. He shot a single shot 22lr and a single shot .243. You should have seen his face everytime he brought his target for me to score. You should have seen my face when the last target had a bunch of 30 cal holes from the shooter next to him. I scored them all.
We had two shooters make rifleman with tubular mag 22's. It really comes down to the basics. Send me a PM when you're ready.
bulkhead
Eric,
I really think everyone understands that you don't like the Tech sites. We think that's just fine. You've been clear several times. We have opinions just like you. Everyone should respect that and move on.
bulkhead
Well, everyone can move on. There's nothing to see here any more. Unfortunantly it looks like Eric had no intentions of being active or beneficial to the Appleseed Project. What a waste of good peoples time.
There's a lesson to be learned here. Some people just don't care about anything other than their own agenda. And when you really think about it; Eric is just one out of 2700 good members.
bulkhead
Not a complete waste of time.
Lessons learned:
TekSights will send you another front sight with a larger base if the one you have is too small.
You can turn the front sight around and that can help with the fit.
Too much locktite is trouble.
Locktite is not a good glue.
There are lots of good people on this board. :D
What else have people learned?
I had a front sight tester with my Tech Sights last night. I was organizing my bag, and leaned the 10/22 up against something. It slipped, and landed on a hard surface right on the right "wing" of the post protectors. Bent it pretty good. The allen needed to be tightened, it was wiggling a little bit, and I straightened the wing out with some needlenose. Went to the range today, and it shoots good as new.
I learned that they will bend if you drop them on the front sight. I learned that you can straighten em out, tighten 'em up, at least once without any problems...
I haven't bought my tech sights yet. I learned of some issues to be aware of while installling my sights when I get them, as well as the details of the Williams sights. Time well spent. Even someone who had "no intention of being beneficial" ended up being helpful.
Quote from: LKB3rd on April 26, 2009, 08:52:54 PM
My first Tech Sights front base fit very badly, it was too small. As I tightened the set screw it moved upward, not fitting properly in the dovetail.
I emailed them, and they sent me a new one, no charge, where they handpicked one in the bigger end of the tolerance range, and it fits fine, no problems since.
Mine is like that. The front sight moved up some, but not enough to not be able to properly sight the rifle or to keep the set. Blue Loctite on the set screw, and it has been fine. It doesn't look perfect, but for practice and what will likely be an Appleseed loaner, I am not going to worry about the ill fit. Now the 6 steps are the important part..........
Front sight "loose" in dovetail?
1. Decide whether to give up, send it back or make it work
2. If you chose "make it work" proceed to step 3
3. Get a center punch and small hammer and a piece of wood to set the end of the rifle barrel on
4. Place the rifle barrel, dovetail up on the piece of wood and have someone hold it steady for you
5. Use the center punch and the hammer to make small marks on the inside of the dovetail (the center of the marks will be lower but will raise up a rounded lip around the low spot = a limited higher surface area in the dovetail)
6. After making a uniformly spaced number of marks to cover the inside of the dovetail lay the punch and hammer aside and try the fron sight to see if it is now tight enough. If so install it, if not go to step 7
7. With the barrel still on the board, very carefully (rifleman have steady hands and good aim) tap the top edges (front and back) of the dovetail to slightly bend the steel lips downward (the sight will cover this and no one will know you bent the dovetail with a hammer)
8. try the front sight again to see if it is now tighter in the dovetail, if so install, if not go back to step 6 and repeat 6, 7 and 8
This worked for me on the 10/22 and has worked on other guns (on those I didn't bend the lips of the dovetail down as just stippling the inside of the dovetail worked).
Try it sometime, it works.
I think I would prefer to peen or bend the base of the sight, instead of messing up a rifle dovetail that had a working valid sight previously installed, and that might need to be re-installed in the future.
The ruger factory sight will never......ever....go back into my 10/22 barrel. If it was that good, I'd never have replaced it. I'd scope it first.
To each his own. How it works is more important to me than how it looks. New cars are pretty....my 24 year old IROC Z28 hurts their feelings all the time...even the BMWs and Porshes. But that's another kind of fun.
My LTR is a loaner. I shot it once. It's been in the rain. It's been in the dust. I've cleaned it more than I've shot it. I ordered another front sight tower because I buggered the first one up. No way the original sights are going back on.
ODdog, I liked your car too. I think we've made up for UT40 posts.
bulkhead
Ok ,here's my fix. Instead of attacking the barrel or sight I put a shim under the rear of the sight so that the set screw will have something to push against. It has worked for a lot of Appelseeds with no problems. In the picture you can see a copper colored shim behind the sight, a space under the sight and the set screw at the front. I've owned a lot of firearms with little problems I just fix them.
If there is such a visible gap between the dove tail and the front sight, has anyone here tried applying a thin layer of JB Weld on the front sight base then after it cures, file to fit and also use loctite.
brindoc
Welcome to the Appleseed forums braindoc.
Yes there is a gap.
No, it does not have an adverse effect on accuracy at an Appleseed event.
Yes it looks like poor quality control.
No, I have not attempted to repair the poor machining. I applied the product plus blue locktight and went to the range. It worked, I scored Rifleman. JB weld is not required.
After reading Hatcher's Book of the Garand I realized that when you make precision gun parts, you measure the parts you make, you measure the tools you use to make those parts (for wear) and the you set up ways to maintain the calibration of the measuring devices to insure they don't introduce errors due to handling/wear.
Tools used to cut dovetails wear, measuring devices wear.
Something as simple as a Stanley tape measure will eventually wear to the point where it can be unusable. Where I work we sell our product on cores. The cores have to be cut withing a 1/16" of what the customer orders. We've had complaints for cores that were off and the tape measures used to measure those cores were found to be unserviceable. Now we have a steel calibration shaft that is used to "check" tape measure with every so often to insure the customer gets the core length they order.
Hey, they work, what more can you ask?
Quote from: eaglescouter on May 09, 2009, 07:01:11 PM
Yes there is a gap.
No, it does not have an adverse effect on accuracy at an Appleseed event.
Yes it looks like poor quality control.
Not all factory Ruger barrels have exactly the same dovetail cut size. They are close, but not exactly the same. Tech-Sights are deliberately made with the ridge on their bottom which you must file/sand to fit your dovetail. If you remove too much, it will be more loose. If you use a .920 barrel and use the Tech-Sight barrel adapter, the front sight fits better than it does in the factory Ruger dovetail cut.
Quote from: fepowered on May 10, 2009, 12:37:53 AM
Not all factory Ruger barrels have exactly the same dovetail cut size. They are close, but not exactly the same. Tech-Sights are deliberately made with the ridge on their bottom which you must file/sand to fit your dovetail. If you remove too much, it will be more loose. If you use a .920 barrel and use the Tech-Sight barrel adapter, the front sight fits better than it does in the factory Ruger dovetail cut.
Then it would behove Tech-Sight to maybe mention this in their instructions - there is absolutely no mention of filing.
This leads to the use of more "persuasion" than is prudent to draft the front sight back in.
Bear in mind that the owner of Tech Sights is an Appleseed supporter; he sends out material on our program with each order. I don't know of any other factory rep which does that.
I think that he's done a good job; if one doesn't like the product he provides, one should give him feed back.
Or, better yet, start one's own company which hails closer machining tolerances.
I have a set on my Ruger. Yes, it took some loctite (actually, nail polish) upon installation. It hasn't slipped since, and if it does, why, I'll simply repair it.
Riflemen adapt, overcome, and improvise. It really is that simple. We don't let a small gap or a loose locking nut kick our butts.
Since this thread was started, I wonder how many Riflemen were made with "ratty" Tech Sights? I'd wager quite a few. The guy that started all of this crying?
Gone, off trolling for more attention on more fertile forums; yet this thread drones on. All of the issues were addressed, solutions have been offered. Yet on it continues.
Well said Talon! We've beat this subject to death let's move on. Let's talk about what we can do to make more riflemen.