So, I just signed up for my first KD event and need an inexspensive scope (< $800).... I'll be shooting and AR15 w/62grain ball ammo. I would prefer an EBR ("christmas tree") reticle but havent ruled out other options that will perform well. MUST HAVES: first focal plane; MOA reticle; 1/4 MOA clicks; Paralax adjustment knob;
For those who have shot AR platforms at KD events, what scope would you recommend? I've been looking at the 1-6 or 1-8 magnification options but am getting either SFP options, or options with MOA clicks on scopes that have mrad reticles. I've thought about just going with Vortex Diamondback tactical 4-16x44 or 6-24x50...that way, I'd at least be able to use it when I eventually change it over to my .308 (which i cant find reasonable ammo for right now)...OR, is there a better option?
Pros and Cons of your suggestions, would also be appreciated. Thanks, all, for your help and avice.
-Chopper
You can get the Vortex 2-10 FFP for under 800, and it's a great budget optic!
If you ever plan on a service rifle EIC event make.sure.your maximum magnification is within their rules. I believe its still 4.25X. Take off your front.sight and get the lowest one piece mount you can fimd. I have a Leopold 1 to 4 with parallel sex to 300 yards by their custom shop.
Thanks, Phillip...I dont know how I missed that one.
Herme, what's "EIC"?
EIC=Excellence in Competition. They're points you get for doing best in CMP XTC(Across the Course) matches. Once you accrue enough points your earn your Distinguished badge.
Wreck
Quote from: chopper on February 26, 2022, 10:35:40 AMThanks, Phillip...I dont know how I missed that one.
Herme, what's "EIC"?
excellence in competition I believe. You get points towards CMP distinguished rifle/pistol/rimfire. If in the military you get to wear a large device on your dress uniform. Creedmoor east coast games are usually in the spring. you shoot ARs at 200yards standing, then 200 rapid seated. 300 rapid prone. then 600 slow prone.
my rifle has a primary arms extended low mount on a Rock river national match AR15 with 20"barrel.
Quote from: Herme on February 26, 2022, 10:08:38 AM
If you ever plan on a service rifle EIC event make.sure.your maximum magnification is within their rules. I believe its still 4.25X. Take off your front.sight and get the lowest one piece mount you can fimd. I have a Leopold 1 to 4 with parallel sex to 300 yards by their custom shop.
4.5x
(https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2022HighpowerRifleRules.pdf?vers=011622, section 4.1.1(h) "Optical Sights", on page 38)
I used a Vortex Diamondback 4-16x44 on my AR. Worked great. I adjusted the magnification to 4X@100, 8x@200, 12X@300, 16X@400, so the sight picture remained consistent. Click values were dead on. Used Seekins .87" rings, they are a tad low, as the scope cover won't fit between my rail and the front lens.
I'm really enjoying my Swampfox Patriot (https://www.swampfoxoptics.com/patriot-series), currently on my 10/22 build.
All the features you listed, and they run discounts (often up to 25% off) several times each year. I think I paid just over $300 for it.
Not ALL the bells and whistles, but more than enough to do the job
A scope you should look into is the Arken SH-4 GenII 4-16x50. I think it compares to scopes costing 2-3 times as much. Unfortunately, when I initially
needed one they were on 4-6 month back order. Bought the Vortex PST Gen II at the time. Now have both scopes but prefer the Arken and it costs half as much and came with $170 worth of accessories when purchased.
Not to hijack the thread, but can you compare the eye-box between Arken and the Vortex?
I've heard Arken is a narrow eyebox, but haven't handled one to compare.
have you looked into primary arms ACSS options? they make so many varitie of combos but from my experience they work quite well and are easy to understand. They make a griffin option here https://www.primaryarms.com/slx-first-focal-plane-1-8x24mm-rifle-scope-with-acss-griffin-x-mil-reticle
its 1-8 FFP and appears to have paralax adjustment. Its the next optic I plan on buying once they come back in stock.
I'll second the recommendation to look at the Primary Arms scopes with the ACSS reticle. They're available in a 1-4x or 1-8x, depending on which you'd prefer, and have either mil or moa adjustment, again, depending on preference. They can be had in either second focal plane, or first focal plane, but the FFP scopes are $$$.
I'm not interested in shooting service rifle competitions with optics, so I went for the 1-8x scope; it has served quite well, holds zero, and a biggie for me- it has capped turrets. I can't stand BDC scopes that have so-called 'target turrets'. If the BDC is calibrated correctly, there's no need for knob twiddlin.
The patented ACSS reticle has been licensed by Trijicon for use in the newer ACOG's- it's that good. I've successfully engaged, in rapid fashion, steel D-silhouettes from 1 through 500 yards, with zero misses (3 shots per steel) all shots fired from prone with sling, and less than 2 minutes total elapsed time. ItsanSKS approved!
Quote from: ItsanSKS on February 28, 2022, 03:48:00 AM
The patented ACSS reticle has been licensed by Trijicon for use in the newer ACOGs
With regret, I must report that the ACSS ACOGs have been discontinued. The military wasn't buying them, and the very small market segment that doesn't want an LPVO was content with buying the very used models that trickled into the secondary market for far less money.
ACSS is fantastic. The goal is to be able to shoot unknown distance, and the ACSS really facilitates that.
Quote from: BillP_556 on February 26, 2022, 01:24:01 AM
You can get the Vortex 2-10 FFP for under 800, and it's a great budget optic!
I second this optic. I used it to qualify KD (BillP_556 got to try it out as well) and it will do everything you ask. There are some other lower or equivalent cost FFP LPVs in lower magnification ranges (a 1-4X will absolutely do the job) but there is little the Vortex 2-10 WON'T do :cool2:
An option for the "best under or around $800":
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/why-not-more-talk-about-delta-stryker-1-6.7023283/page-3
There are two reticle variants. You can find reviews in the topic above (pages 1-2, instrustions on how to get one are on the page 3).
There are a few other things to consider. Will you be dialing or holding over? If dialing, tracking becomes a factor, and there aren't many options for scopes that track true under $800, at least new. If your willing to make the switch to MILS, scope/reticle options will increase. I am slowly replacing every gun I own over to MILS, and have a pile of MOA scopes sitting here. There is no advantage to MOA, and if you're going to be shooting past a couple hundred yards, MILS has a huge advantage for calculating wind holds. If you research gun number, google will do a better job explaining it than I can. I can tell you it's instinctive once you get used to it, and it works! SWFA has some great options, and are known for their durability and tracking. Good luck at your KD!
MrZeke--To finally answer your question about the Arken eyebox, I find no appreciable difference between the Arken and the Vortex PST Gen II. Both have a 3 1/4 inch eye relief and comparable brightness and are FFP.
As a beginning KD shooter, I have found it important to find a scope with a less congested reticle. My first KD with a SFP reticle with somewhat thick lines found me using holdover lines instead of center crosshair after mag changes. Both of the above scopes have very good "Christmas tree" holdover marks without obscuring the view. And if you dial up for the distances, the Arken's huge turrets and large markings make things much easier when facing the time restraints.
Just sayin"
Appreciate it. I love the Swampfox, but am considering an Arken for the next rifle. Just can't find anyone comparing the two.
Don't care much about the illumination, but that zero-stop is a nice add-on for those spinning the dial.
I have an Arken SH-4 GenII 6-24x50 on a .308 bolt gun. Heavy. Very nice turrets & tracking. Eyebox is tight when dialed above 14x. Sight picture (image quality) gets a bit hazy around 16x & up but still useful. Reticle is not too busy. Illumination is on the dim side but not useless. Would not want this on any AR platform rifle unless it was a dedicated range gun, and for balance reasons, probably would need to be AR-10/.308 and not AR-15. Too big too heavy. My bolt gun is a heavy range rifle, so it's fine there. I think it's very good for the $$ but it is heavy.
I also have a Primary Arms SLX 4-14x44 FFP scope with ARC-2 MOA reticle that I run on AR pattern rifles in 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel. I could've bought the Arken in 4-16x for slightly more money but after seeing its limitations (weight, tight eyebox primarily) I wouldn't want it on an AR platform; the 4-16x isn't really much lighter than the 6-25x. The PA is very nice for the money and not too heavy.
On my .22LR I use a Leupold VX-Freedom Rimfire 3-9x that I like a lot, it's got very clean glass, light weight, and the VX-Freedom 3-9x scopes come in reticles other than Rimfire, so if you can find a reticle you like and aren't troubled by max of 9x at your KD, it's probably a good value. I have not used it on 5.56 to test its zero hold under heavier-than-.22LR recoil but I have heard & read they are pretty stable. Turrets are mushy and you wouldn't ever want to use them for dialing/ranging, so pick an appropriate holdover reticle if you go this route. Strelok Pro could help here.
Hope this helps in some way.