Aimsurplus has some more Mosin Nagants (Hex Recieve) and some Czech Mausers. Can someone give me some insight as to which you would purchase and why (or suggest something else).
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Czechoslavakian_vz._24_8mm_Mauser_Rifle.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_1891_30_Hex_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle.html
Please consider:
Accuracy
Easy of Use
Replacement Parts
Ammo
I know nothing about these rifles!
Difficult to answer easily. The mauser has the advantage of generally having more spare parts available. Since this states it is a large ring, it should be easier to relace the barrel assuming that there is no funny thread pitch. I have never shot one of these as a Rifleman so take that into consideration when I say my MN's are GENERALLY more accurate than my Mausers. Overall there are a lot of variables to control for when judging accuracy, but I have read at one time or another someone say they are both more accurate than the other. There doesn't seem to be a lot of surplus 8mm around right now, but there still seems to be a lot of ammo for the MN. This particular MN is the full lenght rifle and very long, whereas the Mauser is more carbine length. The bolt is definitely more refined on the Mauser and generally easier to manipulate. I used to buy these rifles in bulk back where they were really cheap and can tell you that very good to excellent condition can mean anything from almost new to mostly looking like they were run over by a tank. The MN in arsenal refinished excellent condition can just mean a new stock and new finish. I have bought a few of these where the barrel was shot out, pitted and even counter bored. Interordnance/ http://www.ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc has generally given me the best rifles through the years. Check out this guy for FINNISH MN's http://www.gunsnammo.com/. I had a Finnish MN one time that would shoot MOA. Wish I still had it.
Hope this helps
n00b,
You're wanting a simple answer to a complicated question.
1. Accuracy: Both rifles are capable of great accuracy. Both are used, and are capable of being a source of constant frustration.
2. Ease of use: Bolt actions are simple devices. The Mauser's bolt is likely to be easier to open and close, but any military surplus rifle might have been in storage for 60 years and filled with Cosmoline, a preservative. Getting all of it out is a chore.
3. Replacement parts: Cheap and plentiful, if you go with original parts. Both rifles are capable of being upgraded by aftermarket products, which can get very expensive.
4. Ammo: Currently plentiful and relatively cheap, with the edge going to the Mosin-Nagant. Be aware that almost all of this cheap ammo has corrosive primers, which means you'll want to thoroughly clean them immediately after shooting them, to avoid a rusted barrel.
You say "I know nothing about these rifles!". There is a lot of good info on the internet on both of these rifles, and I stromgly recommend you do your research before buying one. The price on either is unlikely to go up in the next 30 days, so don't feel like you have to get them today. A good resource for all things firearm is www.thehighroad.us , and the Search function is your friend. I'm Antibubba over there, too.
Finally, if you are wanting to get one of these (or both--milsurp rifles are addictive ^-^ ) for an Appleseed shoot, my advice is DON'T!! If you're a newbie to shooting as well, your best bet is to get yourself a Ruger 10/22. You really don't want the hassle of dealing with working the bolt, and loading stripper clips, and all the other steps a bolt action requires, when you're struggling to master the fundamentals of becoming a Rifleman. A new 10/22 is around the same price as the Czech Mauser, if not less. And the weight of it is considerably less than that of a military BA. That isn't to say you can't use either of those to qualify--you can. But why make it harder for yourself?
A couple of things to remember about Mosins.
They started making them in 1891.
They made a bunch of them before 1898, so some of them qualify as "antiques", therefore fall into the same category as muzzle loaders for certain laws, including Federal Firearms laws.
Finnish Mosins, at least before M39's are all rebuilds. I have 2 Finns, an M24 and an M28. The M24 is built on an 1895 receiver. I can do all sorts of things with this that aren't legal with a newer made rifle. Like send it in the mail to someone in another state, that isn't an FFL (as long as their state laws don't prohibit it). See, it's legally not a "firearm" by Federal Law.
The round receiver came about somewhere around 1928-1930, not sure of the exact year, but all "antique" Mosins have hex receivers.
So, my suggestion is the hex receiver.
For an inexpensive rifle it is hard to beat the Mosin 91/30, the ammo is still cheap and there are parts still available for them such as a spare firing pin. If you have the funds you may want to buy two of them and see which one will shoot better and there is a chance that you can sell the second one later for more money since it seems like the supply may be drying up. There have been counter bored Mosins out there that shoot better than some others and you would also have to read up on them so you would know how to tune them and also to find out which ammo is the most accurate.
You may want to think about getting a Ruger 10/22 since it is cheap to practice with and the only things to get are Tech Sights and a few spare mags and then you'll be ready to go.
Also check out Samco global arms. Better selection of mausers at better grades and cheaper prices.
Quote from: Nickle on March 15, 2009, 01:37:44 PM
A couple of things to remember about Mosins.
They started making them in 1891.
They made a bunch of them before 1898, so some of them qualify as "antiques", therefore fall into the same category as muzzle loaders for certain laws, including Federal Firearms laws.
Finnish Mosins, at least before M39's are all rebuilds. I have 2 Finns, an M24 and an M28. The M24 is built on an 1895 receiver. I can do all sorts of things with this that aren't legal with a newer made rifle. Like send it in the mail to someone in another state, that isn't an FFL (as long as their state laws don't prohibit it). See, it's legally not a "firearm" by Federal Law.
The round receiver came about somewhere around 1928-1930, not sure of the exact year, but all "antique" Mosins have hex receivers.
So, my suggestion is the hex receiver.
Nickle,
I am on a list that has a member from Finnland on it that is a firearms collector.
He has flatly and often stated that Finnland made EVERY PART for the rifles BUT THE RECEIVER and that they NEVER made a production receiver of their own, just rebuilt captured or traded for receivers. They MAY have tried some prototypes but never went anywhere with them.
Buckshot
My experience is that the sights on the MN are better but the Mauser is a better rifle and a better choice, especially with a scout mount and scope.
I feel the bolt is much easier to work on the mauser and the stripper clips load much easier and faster. You can mount a GI web sling right on a M24/48. My favorite mausers are the M29 persian: http://www.samcoglobal.com/98-29.html
and the Swedish mauser: http://www.samcoglobal.com/m41B.html
although they are now so expensive it would make more sense to buy an M1 garand.
Ok so Mauser over Mosin... What about a K31? Many have suggested the K31 to me in person but they never gave me a location to purchase one, but your Samco has some K31's at what looks like a reasonable price.
So Mauser or K31?
Quote from: Antibubba on March 15, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Finally, if you are wanting to get one of these (or both--milsurp rifles are addictive ^-^ ) for an Appleseed shoot, my advice is DON'T!!
I would like to get one of these rifles for the "Action Field Shooting" events... I am hoping that one of these surplus rifle (eventually equiped with a scope) will allow me to shoot even the KWSC shoot.
Quote from: n00b on March 17, 2009, 10:07:11 AM
Quote from: Antibubba on March 15, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Finally, if you are wanting to get one of these (or both--milsurp rifles are addictive ^-^ ) for an Appleseed shoot, my advice is DON'T!!
I would like to get one of these rifles for the "Action Field Shooting" events... I am hoping that one of these surplus rifle (eventually equiped with a scope) will allow me to shoot even the KWSC shoot.
The K98 Mauser is IMO a better choice. 1# easily converts to .308 if you decide to do so and my experience is its easier to mount a scope. You can in the future turn it into a real tack driver and hit anything on the range at Ramseur. I own a 91/30 and on occasion done quite well with it. The problem with them is the quality varies greatly from one to the next as inside barrel diameter can vary. Many were built during the Great Patriotic War with Uncle Joe watching; production quotas trumped quality. Finding ammo for the 91/30 that is worth a darn can be problematic. In the end its your choice.
Quote from: n00b on March 17, 2009, 09:59:51 AM
Ok so Mauser over Mosin... What about a K31? Many have suggested the K31 to me in person but they never gave me a location to purchase one, but your Samco has some K31's at what looks like a reasonable price.
So Mauser or K31?
I can vouch for the K31. They are great rifles and widely considered to be very accurate. I know mine is more capable than I am and I've had sub moa groups with prvi partisan ammo. The trigger on it is really nice for a ww2 era rifle. You can mount a scope without permanently modifying the receiver. http://www.swissrifles.com/~swiss-sights/ (http://www.swissrifles.com/~swiss-sights/) The only downside is that ammo is generally less available with fewer options. GP11 and the prvi stuff is the only off the shelf ammo I've seen for it and although it isn't insanely expensive, it's definitely more than the 440 round tins of 7.62x54r. However, all of the K31 ammo I've seen is non-corrosive.
I have 5 different Mosin Naganats and the K31 will out shoot any of them. (even my m39) But like was mentioned before, the consistency in the Mosin Nagants does vary. Some of mine are definitely better shooters than others. I don't have a mauser, so I can't compare accuracy.
Cool K31 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plt1PtqbAW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plt1PtqbAW4)
1K yards with open sights (V Notch Sights at that) that is just crazy.
The K31 has a uniqueness value compared to the other rifles that you see everywhere, also the straight pull is very cool. Many complain that if it is scoped that the scope is offset. But if I am thinking properley, if I zero the windage at say 400yards then from 0 to 800 yards it would not be off by more than the offset which is about 3/4", Does that sound right?
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Kaleb
Still a Cook!
Another for the K31 - though ammo is harder to find than either x54r or 8mm.
Between the Russian MN and the Czech 8mm - go Czech every time.
Why not get both? ;)
"Why not both?"
Limited funds allowed for "Hobby" (Very Limited) :-X
I know where you're coming from....
You may wish to start with a mauser, simply because prices are going up faster. And it's considered more of a collector.
Both are quite fine rifles. I'm partial to nagants-I don't know why anyone would call them ugly. I own a couple of them. They're beautiful.
Mauser's usually have better craftsmanship. But a picky buyer could find a really nice Nagant. Nagants will probably remain cheaper, longer. As there are more of them, and generally less collectors' desire.
The down-side to that is they will probably be subjected to more neglect and hard-use.
Combine that with the proliferance of corrosive ammo. It will get harder to find decent specimens in the coming years.
Parts for both should be about as easy to find. But I've never heard of anything imortant breaking on a Nagant. In fact the only time I've ever heard of anything breaking was very recently, on this forum.(it was just a barrel band retaining clip.)
Nagants are winning the ammo war right now, but the surplus is likely to dry up sometime anyway(hopefully not too soon).
Both calibers are available from commercial(foreign and domestic) manufatuors. Not cheap, and probably not available at the local wallyworld. But available, none-the-less.
So, my line of recomendation would be to buy both, just not at the same time. Start with the Mauser, then get Nagant at another time when funds are available. ;) (or reverse, if you wish)
It's your choice!(for now[appleseed is working to preserve that choice])
Good luck in your search!
Aftermath