Saw in SAR's New Products column yesterday, that Timney is making a drop in trigger unit for the 10/22. Which caught my eye as the 10/22 is the semi-preferred platform for an LTR.
The quandry is in that the trigger unit's MSRP is about as much as I remember a 10/22 going for: $150.
I've always liked the 10/22 other than it's trigger. Shame though that better costs what an LTR (less sights, sling & swivels). Guess it is one thing if one is putting a better trigger in a $900, $1000 rifle--but still . . .
Is it my faulty memory, or are the drop-in triggers for the AR less than a buck-and-a-half?
Quote from: capnmac on February 27, 2009, 04:23:51 PM
Is it my faulty memory, or are the drop-in triggers for the AR less than a buck-and-a-half?
150 FRN sounds about right. I should add that I have not bought yet, but plan to install on at least one black rifle.
FB
The idea of a relatively expensive drop-in trigger seems entirely unnecessary for our purposes here at Appleseed. The only trigger group modifications I made was to swap out my hammer and the hammer spring for the drop in VOLQUARTSEN hammer which includes this spring(VC10TH). I even left the trigger return spring intact although it was included. This was only ~$35. I now have a trigger pull which is excellent in our application and feel no need for further modifications to it.
There is definitely a law of diminishing returns when you start modifying rifles. The cost difference will by no stretch of the imagination improve your scores over what the Volquartsen hammer change will from a factory trigger pull.
Ditto to Fe's comments. I put a Volquartsen "Target Hammer" into both of my LTRs, with amazing results! Before the change I could actually support one of my LTRs, muzzle down, by the trigger without dropping the hammer! Now it's sweet. Though I don't have a trigger pull gauge, most that do report a change from around 7 lbs to around 2 lbs. I believe it.
Got mine from Midway for around $35. I checked a couple of days ago for a buddy, and they were on backorder, but Midway is usually pretty good at getting backordered stuff out quickly.
Best Wishes to all!
All I do to my LTR's is put one of these http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=619829 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=619829) spring kits from Midway in them. The difference is amazing and at 8.50 FRNS its hard to beat. For full disclosure I did do a little stone work on my personnel LTR but these were the only parts I added.
Ben
If the purpose of the LTR is to give you cheap (but similar) practice for your M1/M1A why do you want a "match" trigger? Does your M1/M1A have a "match" trigger? Mine have "semi" nice triggers and my LTR sort of mirrors this.
I'll bet once you get slung up right, get the six steps down cold and have your 10/22 putting holes where you want them on the 1" square you won't notice the trigger anymore. No where in the six steps does it mention "focus your eye, or mind, on the trigger pull. Since your mind, and eye, are focused somewhere else (front sight) the trigger pull, no matter how nice it is or isn't, will sort of be lost to you.
Last weekend, at Ramseur, I remember the little voice in my head expressing surprise more than once when my old M1 went "bang". Why? Because I wasn't focusing on the trigger and my finger did that automatically (without conscious thought on my part) when an unconscious part of my mind realized the other conditions (preceding 5 steps, 1, 2, 3, 4a and 4b) had been met.
Try it. Spend the money on training ammo.
Power Custom hammer and sear kit, about $50 from Midway or Brownell's if you have a C&R. ( you should)
LS
I 2nd the power custom trigger kit. Smooth trigger pull for little money. Even works in the plastic trigger group.
Quote from: hawkeye on March 01, 2009, 09:45:50 PM
Even works in the plastic trigger group.
Other than material, there is no functional difference in the plastic trigger housing, so all parts are interchangeable.
Quote from: Old Dog on March 01, 2009, 07:35:38 AM
Since your mind, and eye, are focused somewhere else (front sight) the trigger pull, no matter how nice it is or isn't, will sort of be lost to you.
I have to dissagree to some level with you here. Although an experienced Rifleman can deal with a stiff trigger, a stiff trigger can effect your accuracy. The factory trigger pull in a new 10/22 is only slightly easier than if you would just leave the safety on.... **)
I would never say that a "nice" trigger isn't "nice". However, having shot expert with both M16 and M14 in the Army I'd be willing to bet that no armorer ever "match tuned" the triggers on any of the rifles in any of those armories and yet many people who'd never fired either type of rifle fired expert by the end of the cycle. I couldn't have been the only one. ;D
I know that some of the rifles that other instructors I've been to RBCs or Appleseeds with have what I would consider to be pretty horrible triggers on their M1's and M1A's (and who could squeeze a trigger on a standard AR15 and not wonder how in the world anyone can accurately fire those things - after firing a double stage trigger as found on the M1 and M1A type rifles) and they all fired "rifleman" scores on the AQT.
Yes, nice triggers make it easier. We're all different. I don't really notice the recoil of my M1 or M1A. During the RBC I went to I forgot to put my ear plugs in during a prep period. When the M1's and M1A's started going off around me the first thought in my head was, "what the heck is that strange noise?" Then it hit me I'd left my ear plugs out. If I'd been standing on the line watching the others shoot it would have been painful, but being all "wound" up in getting ready to squeeze that trigger I was sort of aware the noise level was different but not why (at first).
I guess we're all different with different levels of concentration.
You and I may be Rock Stars when it comes to AQTs and being able to live with a 75# trigger pull, but the same can not be said with many of the new shooters. We don't have a week or 2 to give newbies trigger time so that it becomes a zero issue. Although not necessary, $35 is a pretty cheap investment with a good return on it. O0
Did you catch the part about not necessary, but a nice to have??? ;)
Big difference in a M1 or M14 trigger that has been though several cycles of trainees and a 10/22 from Dicks.One of my rifles with a plastic trigger group needed a little help fitting properly. New or old shooter should benefit from a lower trigger pull. On the 10/22 changing the sights and a little trigger work is all that is needed for a great Appleseed experience. Not a lot of money spent for a lot of improvment.
Yeah, all my M1's were used before I got'em. ;D
My 10/22 was used.
My AR was used (still had a lousy trigger).
Why are all my guns "used"? (hint...because I'm cheap)
Well, and to be specific in my quandry, it was knowing that Power can improve the trigger for, oh, "magazine" prices. So, what was with Timney at "rifle" prices thinking?
Even if you were dropping the dollars for the m242 conversion for your 10/22, you'd probably not improve the trigger at that point.
Ok, so maybe I'm thinking that for $149.95, that Timney trigger ought to be able to be adjusted to exactly match which ever MBR I want it to <satirical humor, honest> Now, I suppose that if one had timney triggers in their 'big' rifles, then a matching trigger in an 10/22 might make sense. But, only a little.
Oh, for someone to make parts to make that sloppy first stage with the glass rod break finish (even at 75, 80#, as quoted above <g>).
Old Dog is more correct than many of you may realize. I have 6 10/22 LTR's, every one of them I reworked the trigger myself (I'm another cheap person).
The goal wasn't to get a great trigger, just a decent trigger, without the heavy pull. Stoning the hammer, and clipping a turn off from the trigger return spring will do that. Mine are down to 3 to 3 1/2 pounds, and have just a touch of creep in them. They're good enough to have made plenty of Riflemen, too.