Hello All,
Since we are stuck inside, I was thinking we could do an armchair marksmanship clinic.
So I've had a Marlin bolt action .22 set up for whenever I can finally get to a local Appleseed event (I signed up for a March event but it was cancelled). It has a set of techsights on it, adjustable rear peep and a protected front post (a wing on each side). I noticed that when I shoulder the gun and look through the rear peep, I can see the two protective wings clearly, but not the front sight post. It is just not visible to me as long as I am centered up in the rear peep. The wings are in focus as they are at the outer edges of the peep and not sure what the technical name for it is, but looking through a small hole puts far away objects into focus (if you can't see and don't have glass, you can poke a hole in a card and read through it easily. That seems to be what is making the front wings clear for me, the fact that the are on the perimeter of the sight picture. If I move my head so that the center post is now near the edge of the peep I can see it clear as day.
I should mention that uncorrected, my eyesight is 20/200 with a bad astigmatism and the rest being near sighted. (I can read without glasses at a distance of 6", but that is all. I do have good glasses with about the best correction I could probably hope for though. I'm also cross-eyed just a little bit. I grew up shooting mostly shotgun on squirrel and rabbit. My dad grew up shooting on the farm and was trained in the 60's by the Army. He could hit anything I could see at any distance with irons using his 1917 30-06, but me, I never could hit anything with a rifle or BB gun for that matter. I always needed a shot gun to connect with a target with any reliability.
So, do I live with this sight picture? Can I train or find a way to focus on the front sight? Should I look for a smaller rear peep to pull the center of the sight picture into focus? Switch to circular sights front and rear? (Diopter, ghost ring, what ever you'd call it) Or should I abandon irons and switch to optics? I hope not, I really dig rifles with proper sights (1917 Enfield, Garand, etc).
I'll take any and all advice, except to quit now and buy a 12 gauge. No war has ever been won with a 12 gauge.
-Chris.
Utah.
Have you tried coloring the front sight with something that is bright like white or bright yellow? Give it some contrast to the background of your sight picture so your eye can pick it up better? You can get tiny vials of washable paint from craft stores pretty cheaply. Since that front sight is round all around, I'd just paint the whole sight post so that if you had to twist the sight post to adjust elevation you don't go from a white side to a black side.
Try GTEngineer's suggestion first, but another option is to replace the front sight post with a fiber optic post. They REALLY make things stand out, and for not too much $$$. If you are still having trouble, I might try the globe sights, since you specifically mentioned the outside of your sight picture is where you see clearly (if I understood that right).
If you have the TRS200 sights, Tech-Sights sells a rear aperture kit containing different size apertures. The smaller you go, the better you can see the front sight.
An alternative is to get a Williams rear sight that takes screw-in apertures and install a Williams .050 aperture or a Merit adjustable iris on it. The Merit can screw down to a very small pinhole.
If those don't work, you have graduated to the world of scopes. It's a rite of passage for geezers like me.
Get the rifle up on the shoulder, toe of the rifle stock into the pocket between shoulder and chest muscle. Turkey neck forward keeping the face forward as much as possible. If the head drops down it forces the eye lid to obscure part of the sight. I focus more on the top edge of the sight so it becomes clearer than looking at the entire front sight. I try to spend 10-15 minutes a day working with my iron sights, but not to the point of eye strain. It seems to help. Colors on the front sight help. Another trick is to try a longer barrel, using a yard stick get some one to place an object on the stick and see when the object becomes clearer. Barrel length which are practical are 16" 18" 20" 21" and 22" Persistence will get you there, even it you resort to a scope you are a head of the game
JTDIVER
Sounds to me like you might have a small cataract. You still have peripheral vision but a little loss of central vision that you probably don't notice in your day to day life.
I suggest going to an ophthalmologist.
Thanks all for the advice. I have some bright paint that I can apply to the front site. I'll start with that. The sights were hard to see when I had the gun at an indoor range and I got paint for the sights, but i didn't apply it as i thought black would be the best color for use outdoors. I'll give that a try and if that doesn't help enough I'll order up a rear sight aperture kit. I think I can get there with a smaller aperture. I usually see the Ophthalmologist once a year, but I'm a bit overdue. I'll schedule up another visit when things open back up.
Thanks everyone!
-Chris.
Hello, I have vision problems myself as you describe. It took me a lot of time to "train" my eyes to be able to focus on the front sight when I started shooting AS events. My glasses are transitional lenses with readers at the bottom and distance lenses at the top. What I did was have my eye doctor make me a set of glasses with only the distance lens in it. Also had them make the focus point about arms length away to be able to focus on the front sight better. It really helped my shooting a lot. Its a bear though loading mags or making sight adjustments without the readers though. Arms are just not long enough.
Consider your age. I don't know how old you are but as all humans get older our eye's change just like the rest of us does.
When was your last eye exam? Are you due for bi or multi focal lenses?
There is a safety glasses maker called SSP here is the link: https://sspeyewear.com/collections/top-focal-tactical
An experiment maybe to to get a pair with top focal magnification.
Measure the length from you check weld to the front post.
Call SSP and talk to them, they will have a recommendation.
Then you see how things look. This will give you the information you may need to have a discussion with an optometrist.
Also consider, front sight focus is one of the hardest things to achieve place a small white dot on the top of the post and practice just looking at it.
Not aiming, not looking through a peep sight, just focusing on it.
Lastly, there is nothing wrong with putting a scope on the rifle, hitting a rifleman's score is a goal, but so is learning and embracing our American history.
God's Peace
I wear progressive lenses for close, medium and long range sight with my glasses. Another issue I encounter is in low light (not dark, just not bright) I can no longer see my pistol sights at 4-yards or further (it's all a blur). As a result, I'm a big fan of Red Dots on my rifles and pistols as the dot is easy to see and easy to super-impose over the target. Illuminated reticles on scopes work great also!
I've worn bi-vocals since I was 9 years old. I'm an unapologetic scope shooter. There is nothing wrong with using an optic. You can still shoot the rifles you listed, just not at the distances someone with better sight can.
Depending on your age and what the eye doctor says I would find someone to try out the suggested items above to see if they help before spending money on them. Just my $0.02.
Well, I finally got to an event. I was able to focus on the front sight when outside, but I had trouble resolving the targets when focused on the front sight. I was nailing the Morgan Shingle every time by the end of the first day as I could spot the orange when focused on the front sight, but I couldn't see the last stage of the AQT without considerable blinking and squinting. The gray on cream just wasn't enough contrast for my eyes.
Oddly, I could see the silhouette when my sight dropped during a breath, and I could see the silhouettes to the side of the one I was going for, but once I came up under the target silhouette, I couldn't resolve it, and that was with a 6'oclock hold zero. I just had to guesstimate where the silhouette was based on what I could see around it. The best I could score was 197.
My plan is to buy a 4x28mm scope for my next event (sometime next year). That should be enough to let me easily see the last stage without being excessive. I wanted to qualify with irons and a bolt action. I think I'll start my next match with the scope, and then switch back to irons after I qualify to see if I can make the challenge after more practice.
Thanks all!
Excellent persistence sir! Keep at it.
Make sure that you not only focus your eye on the front sight while shooting, but also keep your visual focus on the post the whole time. Shifting your focus back and forth will tire out your eyes. Stay hydrated to give your eyes the best conditions possible.
Are you using a 6 O'clock hold? With irons, that will allow more of the target to be apparent.
If you want to use your regular glasses, you can try propping them up a little by placing a foam ear-plug under the nose-pad. This will make it easier to look through the center of the lens. Otherwise, you could try specialized/progressive lenses like others have already suggested. For me, this isn't necessary on the 100, 200, and 300 yards targets; but it makes a world of difference on the little 400 yards targets for me to have the center of my lens lined up with the center of my sights. Us glasses users have 5 things to line up in the first step: our eye, the CENTER of our glasses' lens, the rear aperture, the front post, and the target.
For what it's worth, the first few times I scored over 210 I used a 4x scope (also on a Marlin bolt action like you, go figure). I have since been able to score with irons as well.
I zeroed for a 6 o'clock hold. The bullets were hitting about 1/2" from the top of my front post at 25yrds. I think the key for me will be a scope so i can keep the retical and the target in focus at the same time. I'll probably try irons again after making Rifleman, but I'd rather not fail to get there at the next match just because of my terrible eyes when I know I can break 210 with a scope.
Thanks for the advice. I'm really getting into this. Just knowing that I could hit a shingle at 250 yards feels good. I'll be buying my real first center fire rifle after I make rifleman. I grew up on shotguns and .22's when I was a kid as we did alot of small game hunting. My dad had a sweet 1917 model 30-06 Enfield, but my brothers scored that when he passed. I have plenty of pistols and a PCC, but no real rifles yet. I think I'll be getting a Ruger scout rifle, just for the rear aperture sight and the various scope mounting options. I'll have to take that flash hider off though. A standard A2 flash hider isn't designed for shooting prone in the desert.
Quote from: CrossEyedChris on October 26, 2020, 01:07:42 PM
Well, I finally got to an event. I was able to focus on the front sight when outside, but I had trouble resolving the targets when focused on the front sight. I was nailing the Morgan Shingle every time by the end of the first day as I could spot the orange when focused on the front sight, but I couldn't see the last stage of the AQT without considerable blinking and squinting. The gray on cream just wasn't enough contrast for my eyes.
Oddly, I could see the silhouette when my sight dropped during a breath, and I could see the silhouettes to the side of the one I was going for, but once I came up under the target silhouette, I couldn't resolve it, and that was with a 6'oclock hold zero. I just had to guesstimate where the silhouette was based on what I could see around it. The best I could score was 197.
My plan is to buy a 4x28mm scope for my next event (sometime next year). That should be enough to let me easily see the last stage without being excessive. I wanted to qualify with irons and a bolt action. I think I'll start my next match with the scope, and then switch back to irons after I qualify to see if I can make the challenge after more practice.
Thanks all!
Well, I hope you recognize that a 197 at your first event is downright respectable, regardless of sighting system or rifle chosen. Don't kid yourself, that is a good score. I know, everybody wants the patch. But a score like that with irons and a bolt action tells me you are well on your way. Congratulations and keep on shootin'!
Chris, As a 70+yr old Appleseeder, the vision problem has been a challenge. I also face the challenge to score rifleman with iron sights. A combination that finally worked for me was a Ruger American Rimfire with Skinner peep sight in combination with the Merritt diopter. As long as it's bright enuff, cranking the diopter down makes the front sight and target sharp. Unfortunately that didn't quite get the job done for me, but I did luck into a solution. The Skinner fro nt sight installed is fiber optic and quite wide and bright in sunlight. By using the six o'clock hold and leaving a small gap below the 400yd target, it finally remained visible and the rifleman score happened. Now the goal is scoring with my M1 Garand 22LR. Love those military sights tho' it's a step tougher than a peep sight. As mentioned above persistence will conquer all challenges.
If you focus on the target do you see it if the front sight is in the view?
Once you have your NPA, and that NPA is at respiratory pause, you do not need to see the target as anything more than a blur even a faint blur. It will take you a bit of time as you transition between the 400 yard targets, but it is completely doable under the standard times.
You should be able to switch your focus between target and sight. But make sure you are on the sight when you are at NPA and start your trigger squeeze.
The advice I was given by National level shooters is that it is possible for anyone to lose their target, particularly with irons at 1k yards. But you can run your focus to the target, confirm your position and NPA, breath, reach your respiratory pause, run your focus back to the front sight and break the shot. It really should take more than three seconds if you have NPA. I'm wondering if you are waiting too long to make the shot and thus experiencing eye fatigue.
Scope, no scope. It doesn't matter. The key is to learn to shoot. All a scope does is help you to see better. It doesn't master the position, find the NPA, or control the trigger.
I discovered my issue. I put a 4 power scope on my rifle and had no excuse to not hit good. My shooting did not improve significantly. Turns out I have to work on my NPoA. My crosshairs are moving around too much. I'll stick with the scope as it helps me see how I am doing with my stability, but the problem is more than vision.
Well, it's been a long time since your original post. I hope you have, or will soon, visited a good eye doctor to find or rule out a vision issue.
Since no one else has said it, I find a wider front sight post does wonders for focusing. The sight that came with my 20" AR22 barrel appears to be 10-12 MOA to my eye, and it has made me a believer. All my other irons have sights about the same width as the stage4 sil, but even at just 35 I can't keep up like I used to. It's not even been ten years since my first rifleman score, but I'm noticing I need the help if I am to truly focus on the front sight.