I searched to see if this was already addressed and didn't see anything. I've already gotten my Distinguished patch with a scope, and my next step on my marksmanship journey is to do the same with irons. I have a 10/22 takedown that would most likely be my platform to do this with and was looking at getting the tech-sights, but have some concerns about consistency. The way the irons are setup now, as I'm sure you all know, is that both the front and rear sights are on the barrel, which means that taking the barrel off the receiver has minimal to no effect on zero. However, with the tech sights (or almost any peep style sight system) the rear sight is mounted on the receiver, while the front sight is still on the barrel. With assembly and disassembly, assuming the locking ring is properly tightened, is there any noticeable change in POI or inconsistency in zero? Or does modern machining techniques make this concern moot? Thank you for your help.
I look forward to seeing your test results.
My suspicion is that variable sling tension will cause a change in point of impact.
That's my exact concern.
EDIT: I realized that I didn't actually say this in my original post. Let me clarify; the nature of the takedown system gives me cause for concern in consistent lock-up and how solid the connection is between the receiver and the barrel when tension is applied via the sling, translating into slight, but not insignificant changes in relationship between the front and rear sights. This then would translate to unacceptable POA/POI shifts.
Unless you are extremely meticulous in adjusting the tension on the mounting nut for the takedown there will be some slight "play" in the connection. If you adjust the nut until you cannot get the parts together and then back off one click at a time you can eliminate most of the play. I have seen this repeatedly at shoots where people bring a brand new takedown that they sighted in on a benchrest before the event (which tends to push the play in the barrel up). When they use a sling from prone the play is now pulled down and there is a large difference in elevation.
As long as the sighting in is done in the proper position and you are aware of taking up any remaining play, you should be able to use open sights...
Good luck,
Glenn
Quote from: FLawyer on April 13, 2020, 05:57:02 PM
Unless you are extremely meticulous in adjusting the tension on the mounting nut for the takedown there will be some slight "play" in the connection. If you adjust the nut until you cannot get the parts together and then back off one click at a time you can eliminate most of the play. I have seen this repeatedly at shoots where people bring a brand new takedown that they sighted in on a benchrest before the event (which tends to push the play in the barrel up). When they use a sling from prone the play is now pulled down and there is a large difference in elevation.
As long as the sighting in is done in the proper position and you are aware of taking up any remaining play, you should be able to use open sights...
Good luck,
Glenn
This has been my experience as well.
2000+ rounds in mine with 4MOA groups.
Taking the slack out of the barrel lash-up helps. The other part is consistency. For what we do, once you find a sling tension that works for you, keep doing
that. Make small groups, apply IMC, and move on. The key is consistency and repeatability in the SHFs and 6 Steps.
Quote from: FLawyer on April 13, 2020, 05:57:02 PM
Unless you are extremely meticulous in adjusting the tension on the mounting nut for the takedown there will be some slight "play" in the connection. If you adjust the nut until you cannot get the parts together and then back off one click at a time you can eliminate most of the play. I have seen this repeatedly at shoots where people bring a brand new takedown that they sighted in on a benchrest before the event
Lol, when I first got my takedown, I didn't realize about the mounting nut and thought I had gotten a lemon. Thankfully some quick google-fu got me on the right track before I even took it out shooting. I will definitely try this method (which seems better to me than Ruger's recommended "tighten until you can't tighten anymore, then take the barrel off and go 1-2 more clicks.") Thanks.
I brought a 10/22 takedown to an Appleseed for a friend to use in February. Although I'd shot it plenty before that weekend, I installed new Tech Sights (TSR200RL) and sighted them in at an indoor range nearby just a few days prior to the Appleseed shoot. No firing from prone, etc. My friend was having a terrible time and getting discouraged.
We tightened the mounting nut as described above (the barrel was wobbly as all getâ€"out) but this didn't really solve the issue.
As it turns out the jerk that installed the sights (me) had not gotten the front sight quite flush. Iirc it was seated a bit to the left and the POA was consistently several MOA to the right. I removed the front sight and correctly installed it Saturday night and Sunday morning the shooter performed better. He'll be attending another Appleseed in his area once this whole Corona thing lifts and hopes to shoot Rifleman.
I did a bunch of testing when the TD model first came out. With the barrel nut properly adjusted, takedown and reassembly had zero effect on point of impact. However, sling tension had a significant effect. A tight sling in prone position lowered the POI by 8 MOA compared to shooting from a bench rest. It could be challenging for someone who is still developing SHF and NPOA to get consistent sling tension from stage to stage, which can lower scores compared using to a full-stocked 10/22.
Quote from: FiremanBob on April 15, 2020, 09:47:52 PM
I did a bunch of testing when the TD model first came out. With the barrel nut properly adjusted, takedown and reassembly had zero effect on point of impact. However, sling tension had a significant effect. A tight sling in prone position lowered the POI by 8 MOA compared to shooting from a bench rest. It could be challenging for someone who is still developing SHF and NPOA to get consistent sling tension from stage to stage, which can lower scores compared using to a full-stocked 10/22.
I don't think we've had anyone score Rifleman with a take down yet at a 'seed I've attended. It seems like no matter how well they seem to be executing the fundamentals things don't quite click.
As Bob verified I attributed it to sling tension changing NPOA. Makes sense.
If I had any choice at all I'd choose something else besides a take down model.
I think Monkey may have done it.
I scored a 231 with a takedown backpacker at a VA Appleseed a couple years ago. But I have a barrel mounted red dot rail, so it isn't effected by the sling tension (which is good because it uses a leather sling adapter. It wasn't easy in any event. I don't know if there is a way to cantilever a scope rail from the barrel, but that would be ideal.
Quote from: FiremanBob on May 17, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
I think Monkey may have done it.
OK fine! Normal humans I mean! LOL
Quote from: Catch-10-22 on May 17, 2020, 03:50:44 PM
I scored a 231 with a takedown backpacker at a VA Appleseed a couple years ago. But I have a barrel mounted red dot rail, so it isn't effected by the sling tension (which is good because it uses a leather sling adapter. It wasn't easy in any event. I don't know if there is a way to cantilever a scope rail from the barrel, but that would be ideal.
I think that's the key.
Irons or a receiver mounted scope make it very susceptible to sling tension as Monkey pointed out.
Volquartsen makes a barrel mounted cantilevered scope mount that requires drilling and tapping the barrel.
(https://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/l_930-122-302_6.jpg)
https://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/rings-mounts-amp-bases/rifle-bases/ruger-10-22-barrel-and-receiver-scope-base-prod13885.aspx (https://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/rings-mounts-amp-bases/rifle-bases/ruger-10-22-barrel-and-receiver-scope-base-prod13885.aspx)
Quote from: Lomshek on May 17, 2020, 10:47:20 PM
Quote from: FiremanBob on May 17, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
I think Monkey may have done it.
OK fine! Normal humans I mean! LOL
Meh....who's normal, anyway?
I just didn't know I wasn't supposed to be able to. :)
Quote from: FLawyer on April 13, 2020, 05:57:02 PM
Unless you are extremely meticulous in adjusting the tension on the mounting nut for the takedown there will be some slight "play" in the connection. If you adjust the nut until you cannot get the parts together and then back off one click at a time you can eliminate most of the play. I have seen this repeatedly at shoots where people bring a brand new takedown that they sighted in on a benchrest before the event (which tends to push the play in the barrel up). When they use a sling from prone the play is now pulled down and there is a large difference in elevation.
As long as the sighting in is done in the proper position and you are aware of taking up any remaining play, you should be able to use open sights...
Good luck,
Glenn
Quote from: Monkey on April 13, 2020, 07:05:34 PM
This has been my experience as well.
2000+ rounds in mine with 4MOA groups.
Taking the slack out of the barrel lash-up helps. The other part is consistency. For what we do, once you find a sling tension that works for you, keep doing that. Make small groups, apply IMC, and move on. The key is consistency and repeatability in the SHFs and 6 Steps.
It was good timing that this was posted when it was.
Last week I ran a shoot where we had a single take down on the line. He was all over the place (20-30 MOA "groups) so I had him go through the tensioning adjustment FLawyer describes above. That got him down to 6-8 MOA so he could get some feedback from the target. He didn't make Rifleman but it made a world of difference!