Folks,
I'm responsible for a fleet of 15 10/22s at my local gun club. I've also got three of my own, and have owned 10/22s for 40 years.
But I've got one that is driving me to desperation. It's one of the 50th Anniversary models. It's fitted with an aftermarket trigger and magazine release (like a dozen others we have). And it's been highly reliable.
Until it wasn't.
Every four or five rounds it now has a stovepipe.
I've replaced the extractor and spring with a fresh one from Kidd.
No difference.
I've thoroughly cleaned it and polished the bolt.
No difference.
I've reseated the barrel.
No difference.
I've tried multiple magazines.
No difference.
I've tried different brands of ammo.
No difference.
In fact I've tried every fix I could find.
No difference.
What's going on?
Demonic possession?
Russian interference?
Covid-19?
If Anyone has a suggestion, I'd love to hear it.
tk
Take it all back to factory parts with a factory magazine.
Then look at your stock. I had an old wood stock with to much play.
Assuming the extractor is doing it's job it just about has to be something eating up bolt energy and killing extraction velocity.
Any chance of something having changed like a burr raised up on the bolt rails or a bind in the charging rod or spring? Magazines sitting too high due to bad catch placement?
If all else fails and you have a newer iPhone video the extraction cycle from different angles in slowmo and see if you can find something that way. You'll probably need to put some effort into aiming a light into the port to get enough light to see inside good.
Have you taken a Scotch Brite pad to the inside top of the receiver? Sometimes a little buildup of powder coating will cause stovepiping (especially when oil or solvents get involved). Also, some 10/22's run better without lube (I know that goes against what we have been taught but that has been my experience). Also, I have seen numerous issues with all kinds of things with the 10/22 poly stocks, so changing the stock could help. Also, changing the recoil spring to a lighter or heavier spring MAY help (considering you have tried numerous types of ammo, I am doubtful of this).
I had the EXACT same issue (and tried all the above fixes plus some more) with one of my Ruger 10/22s. It looked like the the slot on the barrel where the extractor is positioned was canted a little bit too low but we could not straighten it out because we could not twist and reset the barrel far enough to get it lined up properly.
I sent it back to Ruger and they responded "The technician has evaluated this firearm and found there was an issue with the receiver. As a gesture of good will we would like to replace the receiver at no charge. Please note if you accept this the firearm, it will then have to be returned to a dealer of your choice as it will have a new serial number."
It has worked flawlessly since.
I had the EXACT same issue (and tried all the above fixes plus some more) with one of my Ruger 10/22s. It looked like the the slot on the barrel where the extractor is positioned was canted a little bit too low but we could not straighten it out because we could not twist and reset the barrel far enough to get it lined up properly.
I sent it back to Ruger and they responded "The technician has evaluated this firearm and found there was an issue with the receiver. As a gesture of good will we would like to replace the receiver at no charge. Please note if you accept this the firearm, it will then have to be returned to a dealer of your choice as it will have a new serial number."
It has worked flawlessly since.
The "bolt energy" idea was my theory, too. But I polished the upper face of the bolt (I have a well-equipped workshop) and the receiver surface it bears against.
The casings are classic stovepipes, caught between the bolt face and the edge of the receiver, with the rim sticking out of the receiver.
tk
Quote from: Lomshek on March 21, 2020, 12:48:13 AM
Assuming the extractor is doing it's job it just about has to be something eating up bolt energy and killing extraction velocity.
Any chance of something having changed like a burr raised up on the bolt rails or a bind in the charging rod or spring? Magazines sitting too high due to bad catch placement?
If all else fails and you have a newer iPhone video the extraction cycle from different angles in slowmo and see if you can find something that way. You'll probably need to put some effort into aiming a light into the port to get enough light to see inside good.
Thanks for the note. If all else fails, I'll try that.
tk
Quote from: Bear Arms on March 21, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
I had the EXACT same issue (and tried all the above fixes plus some more) with one of my Ruger 10/22s. It looked like the the slot on the barrel where the extractor is positioned was canted a little bit too low but we could not straighten it out because we could not twist and reset the barrel far enough to get it lined up properly.
I sent it back to Ruger and they responded "The technician has evaluated this firearm and found there was an issue with the receiver. As a gesture of good will we would like to replace the receiver at no charge. Please note if you accept this the firearm, it will then have to be returned to a dealer of your choice as it will have a new serial number."
It has worked flawlessly since.
Yeah, it's been cleaned and polished.
I'm experimenting with different kinds of lubrication.
But this had been a reliable gun. Something changed, and I don't know what.
tk
Quote from: Tennessee Beast on March 21, 2020, 09:12:35 AM
Have you taken a Scotch Brite pad to the inside top of the receiver? Sometimes a little buildup of powder coating will cause stovepiping (especially when oil or solvents get involved). Also, some 10/22's run better cleaned without lube (I know that goes against what we have been taught but that has been my experience). Also, I have seen numerous issues with all kinds of things with the 10/22 poly stocks, so changing the stock could help. Also, changing the recoil spring to a lighter or heavier spring MAY help (considering you have tried numerous types of ammo, I am doubtful of this).
Quote from: malabar on March 21, 2020, 01:50:29 PM
Yeah, it's been cleaned and polished.
I'm experimenting with different kinds of lubrication.
But this had been a reliable gun. Something changed, and I don't know what.
tk
Quote from: Tennessee Beast on March 21, 2020, 09:12:35 AM
Have you taken a Scotch Brite pad to the inside top of the receiver? Sometimes a little buildup of powder coating will cause stovepiping (especially when oil or solvents get involved). Also, some 10/22's run better cleaned without lube (I know that goes against what we have been taught but that has been my experience). Also, I have seen numerous issues with all kinds of things with the 10/22 poly stocks, so changing the stock could help. Also, changing the recoil spring to a lighter or heavier spring MAY help (considering you have tried numerous types of ammo, I am doubtful of this).
Springs do wear out.
Sound like you have done all of the usual and normal fixes, so lets go to the weird.
Saw a 10/22 with a std. bolt handle that would smack the ejecting round back into the chamber on the return stroke. Changing ammo fixed the issue.
I've heard of this happening with extended bolt handles but had never seen it with a stock one.
Henry
Quote from: malabar on March 20, 2020, 11:52:27 PM
Demonic possession?
Yeah - that. >:D
Sorry - just couldn't resist.
I have had Gremlins change my zero substantially overnight (rifle was in my car). So, demonic possession is a possibility I suppose.
I just came back from another trip to the range.
There's a great deal of play in seating of the magazine it will snap into place and still have 1/16 of an inch off the mag hanging below the stock. You can push it all the way up, but it doesn't;t hold well up there. That could serious functioning issues.
Now all I need to do is figure out why it's hanging low.
tk
Quote from: stoneknives on March 21, 2020, 03:07:58 PM
Sound like you have done all of the usual and normal fixes, so lets go to the weird.
Saw a 10/22 with a std. bolt handle that would smack the ejecting round back into the chamber on the return stroke. Changing ammo fixed the issue.
I've heard of this happening with extended bolt handles but had never seen it with a stock one.
Henry
Since the primary ejector on the Ruger 10/22 is on the magazine itself, a drooping magazine can certainly be expected to cause a failure to eject if the spent case hits the ejector at the wrong angle.
Take a good look at the magazine latch plunger and check to see if the magazine latch lever and magazine plunger function smoothly. If they seem OK I would still go ahead and partially disassemble the trigger assembly by removing the magazine latch pivot pin, the magazine latch lever, the magazine latch plunger and plunger spring. If they look OK I would replace the magazine latch plunger spring and reassemble.
recently has same problem with 2013 50 anniversary 10/22, the extractor had been replaced with an after market extractor.
The extractor was sitting too far forward of the bolt face. Meaning the bolt moved about .030 before hooking the head of the casing.
Check to make sure the extractor length is correct.
Does every round that is chambered fire, or do you get some light primer strikes? If ignition is unreliable and you have stovepipes, the most common reason is that the chamber is dirty. A hard ring of carbon and primer material builds up around the case mouth. This can cause the case to stick enough to throw off the timing of the action. It also prevents rounds from fully chambering.
A 10/22 even without the magazine should eject reliably, as the secondary ejector in the trigger group will flip the case out.
Hmmm. I've gotten some FTFs, and they might well have been light primer strikes. I've cleaned the bore, but maybe I need to look more closely at the chamber.
let me check that out
THANKS!
tk
Quote from: FiremanBob on March 22, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Does every round that is chambered fire, or do you get some light primer strikes? If ignition is unreliable and you have stovepipes, the most common reason is that the chamber is dirty. A hard ring of carbon and primer material builds up around the case mouth. This can cause the case to stick enough to throw off the timing of the action. It also prevents rounds from fully chambering.
A 10/22 even without the magazine should eject reliably, as the secondary ejector in the trigger group will flip the case out.
Quote from: FiremanBob on March 22, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Does every round that is chambered fire, or do you get some light primer strikes? If ignition is unreliable and you have stovepipes, the most common reason is that the chamber is dirty. A hard ring of carbon and primer material builds up around the case mouth. This can cause the case to stick enough to throw off the timing of the action. It also prevents rounds from fully chambering.
A 10/22 even without the magazine should eject reliably, as the secondary ejector in the trigger group will flip the case out.
If you insert an empty magazine into a 10/22 and look through the ejection port as you hold the bolt back, you can see that the tip of the secondary ejector sits at approximately the same height as the lip on the magazine that is the primary ejector, but well behind the magazine. If there is no magazine in the rifle, the spent cartridge will hit the secondary ejector at the correct angle and get kicked out of the ejection port. If there is a magazine in the rifle, empty or loaded, the spent case will be ejected by the primary ejector before it gets anywhere close to the secondary ejector that is part of the trigger group.
But what if there is a magazine in the rifle that is sitting 1/16" or so lower than it should? The spent case is still almost certainly going to hit that primary ejector on the magazine before it gets anywhere close to the secondary ejector. But now it is going to strike the very top edge of it. It seems logical to me that this could well kick the spent case upward and laterally instead of just laterally. If so, the case will likely strike somewhere at the top of the receiver or catch the top lip of the ejection port instead of clearing it.
Try firing the rifle while applying continuous upward pressure on the magazine.
Agreed. This is a likely scenario.
tk
Quote from: pblanc on March 23, 2020, 04:04:46 PM
Quote from: FiremanBob on March 22, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Does every round that is chambered fire, or do you get some light primer strikes? If ignition is unreliable and you have stovepipes, the most common reason is that the chamber is dirty. A hard ring of carbon and primer material builds up around the case mouth. This can cause the case to stick enough to throw off the timing of the action. It also prevents rounds from fully chambering.
A 10/22 even without the magazine should eject reliably, as the secondary ejector in the trigger group will flip the case out.
If you insert an empty magazine into a 10/22 and look through the ejection port as you hold the bolt back, you can see that the tip of the secondary ejector sits at approximately the same height as the lip on the magazine that is the primary ejector, but well behind the magazine. If there is no magazine in the rifle, the spent cartridge will hit the secondary ejector at the correct angle and get kicked out of the ejection port. If there is a magazine in the rifle, empty or loaded, the spent case will be ejected by the primary ejector before it gets anywhere close to the secondary ejector that is part of the trigger group.
But what if there is a magazine in the rifle that is sitting 1/16" or so lower than it should? The spent case is still almost certainly going to hit that primary ejector on the magazine before it gets anywhere close to the secondary ejector. But now it is going to strike the very top edge of it. It seems logical to me that this could well kick the spent case upward and laterally instead of just laterally. If so, the case will likely strike somewhere at the top of the receiver or catch the top lip of the ejection port instead of clearing it.
I have. This improves reliability, but does not eliminate the problem.
tk
Quote from: Aim Small Hit Small on March 23, 2020, 08:55:39 PM
Try firing the rifle while applying continuous upward pressure on the magazine.