Hey Appleseed vets, how about sharing some of your collective wisdom. I have a couple of topics to opine on.
1. What would be your recomended magnification for a scope when shooting at a standard 2-day Appleseed event? For whatever it's worth, I have a 3-9x32 scope on a Ruger 10/22 Sporter. I have been shooting at the midpoint, 6X, and feel that it is good for those Stage 4 targets. So, what say you?
2. What is the time limit on a rapid AQT, the one where you shoot all four stages in succesion? Any other tips on it? I only ask because I'd like to practice it at the range after I get some proficiency on the general skills. It sounds like fun and a great way to build fluency in position transitions.
By the way, I've been scouring this board - all 17 pages - for all of the great advice. I have learned so much that I have been incorporatiing in my training. Can't wait to take it to my next AS. I attended my first AS in September in Danville, IL. My scores ranged from low 100s to very low 200s. Not a Rifleman, not yet.
My many thanks,
Cesar Cruz
Cesar,
1. The standard rule of thumb for setting scope magnification is to use no more than 1x per 100 yards. So, when shooting out to the Rifleman's Quarter Mile, or when simulating doing such, the scope magnification should be set accordingly as if for shooting at 400 yards, maximum, for Appleseed style shooting, which means 4x, maximum, for scope power. Some folks prefer a little less, and that's ok, too. Say, 3.5x. So, 3.5x to 4x. This reduces your apparent wobble, and keeps you from fussing the shot, that is, it keeps you from wasting time trying to reduce your residual wobble.
Likewise, if shooting at 600 yards, then 6x, maximum. If shooting at 1000 yards, then 10x, maximum. If shooting at 1200 yards, then 12x, maximum. And, so forth, such as for special 2-day Unknown Distance Appleseeds.
This is, of course, all for doing field position style shooting.
2. Rapid AQT is 4 minutes. You don't transition with the rifle loaded. You start with a magazine prepared with 10 rounds in your trigger side front pocket. The other magazines are on the mat. Be sure to transition while maintaining careful control of your muzzle, and with the rifle completely empty, and magazine out.
It sounds like you are well on your way to becoming a Rifleman very soon!
Dry fire practice can help immensely, too. Be sure no ammo is in the room where you are practicing dry fire practice. You can even practice inserting empty magazines and racking the bolt without breaking cheek welds!
There are also targets here on the forum for 10 feet and similar indoor distances, where you will have the exact same sight pictures as when out on the range, for your dry fire practice. That allows you to see which seated or kneeling position works best for you with your body build and your rifle, too, by seeing which sight picture is the most stable for cross legged, cross ankle, open leg, and kneeling.
â€" gb
Cesar, very glad to hear you're attending one of the shoots! To Guntuckian's point, you don't need the magnification dialed to the max, it can end up amplifying things like wobble and cause you to want to chase your shots at the exact perfect spot. As I've been reminded often by other SBs, don't let perfection become the enemy of good enough. A hit on the edge of the 5 counts just as much as a hit dead center of 5.
As for rapid fire AQTs, it is at the shoot boss' discretion to run those, it is not standard to the event as far as I am aware. I typically use it to break up the monotomy of the Sunday afternoon AQT grind and to give the shooters something fun/challenging to look forward to. I would practice assuming you are running a standard AQT with standard time limits for each stage. I wouldn't count on being able to do a rapid fire AQT at the event you are going to.
Good luck! Get that dry practice in (do your dry practice with no ammo anywhere near), especially things like smooth transition down to sitting or prone, smooth magazine change, etc. It'll go a long way.
In my opinion, optimal scope magnification is subject to the individual and varies, which makes sense since our optical acuity varies considerably. Many rimfire silhouette shooters seem to favor scopes with what seems to me very high magnification to shoot at those small metal silhouette targets.
I have shot the AQTs at 25 meters with a 3-9x40 and a fixed magnification 4X32 and I can tell you that my scores are consistently better on the 400 yard scaled targets at 9X than they are at 4X. I don't leave the scope at 9X magnification for the whole AQT but dial it up progressively for the different stages, starting at 3X for the first stage, around 4.5-5X for the second, 7X for the third, and 9X for the fourth. This keeps the magnified images of the scaled targets somewhat more consistent in apparent size. I would certainly start with your 3-9x32 scope.
Even if the AQTs are shot with the usual prescribed time limits for each stage, some shoot bosses will start running AQTs at a very rapid pace such that the prep period for the next stage is announced immediately after the line is declared clear from the preceding stage. In such cases, if you utilize the full time limit per stage, you have a very limited amount of time to prep magazines, get a drink of water, return to the line, adjust sling tension, get in position, and adjust natural point of aim.
Some specific advice regarding preparation for an event:
Make sure your scope is properly positioned so that it can be used effectively in the prone position. I have seen many AS participants arrive with scoped rifles that they have only shot from a bench or standing. In many such cases the ocular of the scope is mounted too far to the rear to allow proper eye relief when you are slung up and in the prone position. The only solution then is to remove the scope and go with iron sights, switch to a different rifle, or remount the scope further forward which is sometimes impossible with the existing rail, rings, and scope. Also be aware that with most scopes, the eye relief will shorten with increasing magnification, so adjust the position of your scope so that it works well with whatever magnification you plan to use for the prone stages. I mount my scopes with the ocular as far rearward as I can get it, set to maximum magnification slung up in the prone position, and still have a complete sight picture with no vignetting or ghost rings. You might also find that you need to pad the comb of your rifle stock a bit to get an optimal cheek weld in the prone position.
I would also make sure that your scope is properly zeroed at 25 meters for the prone position with a properly tensioned sling using the magnification and the ammunition you intend to use. You may well find that a tensioned sling will shift the point of impact a bit from your bench zero. Changes in ammunition will nearly always result in at least some shift in the point of aim. Practice shooting prone with the goal of placing all of five shots into a square or circle of one inch diameter at 25 meters.
I have to agree with pblank on the scope power.
Use the magnification you are comfortable with.
Lower power is usually better with new shooters, not all folks who come to Appleseed are new shooters.
Higher power increases the odds of accidently "sharing" other's targets.!!!
Been there - done that!!!
Great info on scope fitting and the challenges faced once an event starts.
I use a 10/22 Takedown and the length of pull is incredibly short. After struggleing with it for most of the morning, the instructors offered a full size loaner which had better eye relief. (Can't thank them enough for always being prepared).
We discussed the options of different mounts, rings and/or scopes, none of which could be accomplished prior to Day 2 of the shoot.
That evening as I was storing the rifle I noticed a slip on recoil pad sitting unused on a shelf. It dawned on me that elongating the stock would have the desired effect of moving the scope further from my eye. I have included a photo of my quick & dirty fix that was made and used for the second day of the shoot.
Proof is in the pudding; shot Rifleman for the first time on the AQT right after lunch, and several more times that day.
And as an added bonus . . . you saved your shoulder ;D
Quote from: MCZplus on November 26, 2019, 05:19:10 PM
Higher power increases the odds of accidently "sharing" other's targets.!!!
Been there - done that!!!
I did this during the five 1-inch square practice. Tough lesson to learn and humbling but the whose target I tore up actually preferred my hits to his lol.
Seriously though, higher magnification will definitely show you what you wobble is while standing :P
Hi all,
thank you for your great, and varied, advice. It has been a lot to consider. Last Thursday I tried out some of this info at the range. I went conventional with 4X mag, down from my usual 6X. I was very pleased with the results. Shot almost 300 rounds practicing on Redcoats, and stages 2 (kneeling, with a hasty sling, of course) and 4. (I uploaded a few of my targets on another post by Quincannon.) Anyway, the info that I find on this site is invaluable.
Appleseeders rock!!!