Please help me pick out which type of 5.56 ammo to get for a "beginner stash". I plan to go to my 2nd appleseed in a few months, and I want to buy some ammo to use to get ready & to keep for a "rainy day".
My choices are reloadable Privi Match 75gr HP or Privi Match 69gr HP for $430 or $440 per 1k
OR
Prvi m855 green tip for $410 per 1k
OR
vs Federal 55gr XM193 for $399 per 1k.
Right now my shooting skills are "Wolf" level, but I plan to fix that, So....Which of these options is the best buy??
Thanks, Bill
Well, the short, best, answer is get what works best in your weapon.
For my AR, I'd probably get the Federal. (Since it really likes the Nosler BT varmit loads best of all).
Different rifles, different answers.
I have been shooting the PRVI Partizan 75 grain for several months.
PRVI Partizan 223 Remington Match HP BT 75 Grain 2,756 ft/sec w/24 inch barrel. My barrel is 16 inch plus muzzle brake so add ~3 inch. Not sure, but believe on shorter barrel the muzzle velocity would be reduced slightly.
Even so, consider .22 LR at ~ 1250 ft/sec +-.
the 75 G PRVI is over twice as fast as the .22 LR
over a 75 meter range the .22 LR reaches target in .06 sec, the PRVI reaches target in .03 sec.
The PRVI 75 G has a noticeably higher recoil than a 55 G bullet.
However, I consider after shooting both, the 75 G HP BT is also noticeably more accurate.
The 75 G may cost a little more. It is however, cheaper in the long run because my accuracy is better. It is a confidence builder for me.
Capnmac has it pegged, though. Use what works best in your equipment.
The PRVI 62 G BT Greentip (855) is not a Match Load. It is an armor piercing round.
My suggestion is purchase a couple of hundred rds of the PRVI Match 69 and 75. See how each works in your equipment.
Then acquire all you can of what you like best.
POP
The cost of that ammo seems a little high. Even with current prices, you can find it cheaper at gun shows.
As for having "Wolf" skills, I remember reading somewhere that a Rifleman can take a "rack-grade rifle" along with "surplus ball ammo" and make hits on target out to 500 meters. There was nothing in there about what brand of ammo (or even which rifle!)
Wolf (or even one of the Bears) ammo is just fine for being able to make hits out to 500, trust me!
Shooting holes in holes is nice, but if you're truly looking for something to save up "for a rainy day" shoot the .22LR at Appleseed until you've acquired the software to make whatever you're shooting work for you. Then, as the guys have said above, it's more about what your rifle "prefers" and not what brand of skills you have because you'll have "Rifleman" skills, and they work with all brands (and prices!) of ammo.
Quote from: slim on February 12, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
The cost of that ammo seems a little high. Even with current prices, you can find it cheaper at gun shows.
As for having "Wolf" skills, I remember reading somewhere that a Rifleman can take a "rack-grade rifle" along with "surplus ball ammo" and make hits on target out to 500 meters. There was nothing in there about what brand of ammo (or even which rifle!)
Wolf (or even one of the Bears) ammo is just fine for being able to make hits out to 500, trust me!
Shooting holes in holes is nice, but if you're truly looking for something to save up "for a rainy day" shoot the .22LR at Appleseed until you've acquired the software to make whatever you're shooting work for you. Then, as the guys have said above, it's more about what your rifle "prefers" and not what brand of skills you have because you'll have "Rifleman" skills, and they work with all brands (and prices!) of ammo.
TRUE, and I do plan to get my 10/22 to make into an LTR later this week, but if I am buying 1k rounds I would like for it to be "multi-purpose"!! Plus I've already got 500 rounds of wolf classic 55gr to start with. Thanks, Bill
Don't know about your AR but you might take a look at the .22 conversion kit threads here. They are a little cheaper than an LTR 10/22 and allows you to train with all the same mag change, safety, sighting, slinging up, pistol grip "feels and motions" as your AR - because it is your AR.
Some folks love theirs and some don't. Just an idea.
All my AR ammo is 55 grn. fmj. That seems fine to me for what I use an AR for. If I want to make bigger holes at longer ranges I would use different rifles.
For an AQT the 55 or 62 grainers are fine, but my rifle likes the 75 grain PPU. I have even used them for HP when I haven't had the time to reload.
CB,
I ran a few boxes of 75 gr PPU in a 16" 1:9 barrel.
I was surprised it stabilized and shot under 1.5 MOA out to 300 yards on a 40 degree day.
(Longest distance available that cool weekend)
Should stabilize even better in a 20" 1:9 barrel. (More velocity)
My buddy's 26" 1:9 LOVED it.
Should shoot awesome in any 1:8 or 1:7.
The 69 gr PPU wasn't available yet.
My shooting buddy from that day confirmed that the 69 shoots well too.
BH 68 & PPU 69 are all I use in my target rig.
Long term storage:
Get a case or two of XM193.
Lacquer-sealed for YEARS of storage.
PPU Match is not sealed.
Got the coin? Buy both.
I always struggle with what's "good enough."
While 4 MOA will get the job done, I like knowing if I can do better.
Match ammo through your existing rifle should help you fine-tune your skills.
4 MOA gets you consistent hits a 500.
So, what would 2 MOA get you?
Detect the target, estimate range properly, read the wind, know your drop, and match ammo will get you a few hundred more yards.
Have fun,
sk
Your barrel twist rate and burn rate of the powder will be the determining factor. You will have to pay perticular attention to the overall length of the finished cartridge as the 175s and 180s are notorious for being too long to load in a GI magazine. A slower(2900-3000 feet per second) than nato spec will also probably help make the targets larger and your groups tighter. If you have the more popular 1-9 twist as opposed to the 1-8 favored by the match shooters you should be near 1 minute groups if you do your part right with the 55s or 62s. Get a chronograph and experiment, it'll be more than worth it. Good luck finding powder. !@#)
M855 is what is calibrated to the standard A2 sights on an AR15. It is a 62 grain BTFMJ round, with a penetrator in it, but is NOT an armor piercing round. AP has a black tip, and is designated M995 if I remember correctly. It (M855) is a very accurate round, despite what others may claim. The problem with it is that it works like an ice pick if you use it on varmints as it does not have room to tumble when it goes into those small carcases.
My range only goes out to 400 yards, and at that range the M855 stays in the kill zone of a human shaped target using a no-frills 20" AR with regular A2 sights. The M855 ammo and the M16A2/AR15A2 are accuate to 550 meters on point targets and 800 meters on area targets by military standards.
Stock the M855 for emergency use.
CurioBill,
Match the ammo to your rifle.
My prefered AR15 is an M16A1 clone including the 1:12 pencil barrel, triangular handguards and A1 sights. I want M193 equivelent for it, that is what it likes.
My other upper is an M16A2 clone with the 1:7 barrel, round handguards and A2 sights. It prefers something closer to M855 ammo.
Buckshot
Curio Bill - what's your twist rate?
(As is pointed out) 1/9 or faster you are ok with the 75gr match or 69gr match or 855 - nice punch in fact.
If you have something like a 1/12 twist - then stick with the 55gr - something 69 or 75gr may not stablize.
Also - what sort of rainy day is your stash for?
If it's SHTF I don't think you'll need match ammo - you don't need sub-moa - you want fatalities. So HP or SP rather than FMJ. (I guess that may be more of a question than a statement.)
BTW: not liking the pricing your getting - take a look here for deals:
http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.223
Updated daily and usually pretty darn accurate.
Quote from: slim on February 12, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
The cost of that ammo seems a little high. Even with current prices, you can find it cheaper at gun shows.
As for having "Wolf" skills, I remember reading somewhere that a Rifleman can take a "rack-grade rifle" along with "surplus ball ammo" and make hits on target out to 500 meters. There was nothing in there about what brand of ammo (or even which rifle!)
Wolf (or even one of the Bears) ammo is just fine for being able to make hits out to 500, trust me!
Quote from: gunville on February 19, 2009, 01:10:39 AM
If it's SHTF I don't think you'll need match ammo - you don't need sub-moa - you want fatalities. So HP or SP rather than FMJ. (I guess that may be more of a question than a statement.)
I have a 1 in 9" twist in my stainless target Bushmaster AR15 and Savage Stevens 200 bolt gun. I practice exclusively with Wolf 55gr HP. In my guns it is the most accurate Wolf ammo. I can make a big ragged hole at 25M on the 1" squares and have shot multiple Rifleman scores with it. At the last Appleseed, I was hitting clay pigeons at 200yds for fun. With a scope mounted on my Bushmaster and a rest, it groups less than 1 1/2" at 100 yds. Some 5 shot groups have been not much more than 1". It can be found on line for less than $.25 per round.
Assuming you have a 1/9 or 1/7 barrel I'd get the green tip PRVI 855 due to the fact your sights are probably calibrated for it.
i kind of think the idea of having a stash as a beginner is flawed in and of itself. you should probably have a variety pack of different brands of various rounds, all of which you can blow in a day or two at the range.
once you've actually fired/cleaned a few different types, then you can look at what the rifle's tasks are going to be. for example, if defense, the prvi m855 might be reasonable for the price. for appleseed, the cheapest stuff you can get that won't foul up your action so bad that you have to stop during the day, maybe pmc, maybe wolf, maybe soft point, maybe hollow point.
once you've got your task descriptions and a test-proven choice of ammo, you'll find yourself sitting on a stash of it before long. what's that they say about how much ammo you'll need? everything you've got, plus one more box?