I have a similar post on preparing for a 25M AQT event with the 10/22 where I mention a good idea is to operational/function check the magazines you will be using and to segregate any poor performers.
My experiences with the AR15 and Rapid Fire:
When I first started to compete with my AR15, I had a plethora of 20 round PMAGs. They worked OK, but often times I would have a malfunction in rapid fire. That being the bolt over riding the top round in the PMAG loaded with 2 rounds. Sometimes it would cause the round to orient at such an extreme angle that it would not chamber.
I became friends with a competitor (a very intelligient man, he was a judge) that had similar issues and his advice to me was:
"Chris, I advise that you take those PMAGs and add them to the gear you would pack for when shooting iron sighted wood rifles. You should also add a small torch to your pack. On the assembly line before your relay is called, take the torch and heat up the PMAG and use that to smoke your front sight post"! LOL
He was pretty seriously against using PMAGs for competition/rapid fire events.
After a few more issues with those PMAGs I stopped using them.
Swapped to Brownells Aluminum GI mags with the improved followers and I can say (knock on wood) that in over 60 matches to date I have NEVER had a malfunction!
Many still use PMAGs and some are using the newer generation and have had no issues. My past experiences with PMAGs and my flawless experiences with the aluminum GI mags keep me convinced to continue using the aluminum ones that have yet to fail me.
Magazines for the AR15 do require some periodic maintenance. Every season (year) after about 4000 rounds fired, I will replace the magazine springs and followers. This may not be needed at my periodicity, but....as stated, zero malfunctions, so I will continue to do so. Magazine repair kits are not expensive at all.
Regardless of my personal views and experiences with PMAGs, I do highly recommend that all magazines get operationally checked, especially if you are preparing for a KD event or trying to earn your Rifleman patch at a 25M centerfire event. This can be done prior to the event, or during, when shooting the squares targets or practice AQTs.
I mark any magazines that do not perform and segregate them, never to see the light of day again.
For my rapid fire magazines, I have a pouch that I keep those in, they do not bounce around inside my cart. I use blue painters tape and tape the bottom of the magazines that get 8 rounds. This helps me to keep track of what has what.
R/
Chris
I've had zero issues with gen 2 and 3 PMAGS.
YMMV. I sent all of my Brownells 20-round aluminum mags back, because they weren't picking up the first round when loaded with just two rounds. I could have fixed that by using anti-tilt followers or maybe changing to a 30-round spring, but I no longer trusted them. I now use Okay Industries Surefeed 20-rounders, and have had zero problems. Midway's AR-Stoner 20-round mags have also worked fine for me.
At the same time, I know a number of competitors who exclusively use PMAGs after problems with GI mags, usually failure to lock back…so ¯\_(ãƒ,,)_/¯. Do your own testing in your own rifle, in spite of what us random guys on the internet say!
Agreed on the testing.
I am only sharing my personal experiences with them.
If a BAD Lever is used, that can cause some issues as well. I use one, and have since trimmed the bolt catch spring.
Not trying to come off as "my way is the only way" because as stated many are using PMAGs or have had their own issues with Brownells....the real point is "test what you have and plan to use", to aleviate any equipment malfunctions.
R/
Chris
Quote from: maxwell on October 10, 2019, 08:12:30 PM
YMMV. I sent all of my Brownells 20-round aluminum mags back, because they weren't picking up the first round when loaded with just two rounds. I could have fixed that by using anti-tilt followers or maybe changing to a 30-round spring, but I no longer trusted them. I now use Okay Industries Surefeed 20-rounders, and have had zero problems. Midway's AR-Stoner 20-round mags have also worked fine for me.
At the same time, I know a number of competitors who exclusively use PMAGs after problems with GI mags, usually failure to lock back…so ¯\_(ãƒ,,)_/¯. Do your own testing in your own rifle, in spite of what us random guys on the internet say!
Another strategy, number the mags and keep track of which ones are "being difficult". If a particular mag has a second malfunction it's taken out of rotation for competition. A known "bad" mag can be something to use in practice to induce malfunctions so you can practice dealing with them. I do usually try to rebuild or clean them first to see if I can improve function. In my limited competition experience, I will bring my mags for the string (say a 2 and an 8) and also set up an emergency mag with some rounds off to the side but in reach. If I'm trying to get a high score on an AQT (when I get a chance to shoot one) I will also stage an emergency mag.
Good ideas on these threads - thanks Chris....
I have had issues with the Gen 2 M4/AR P-Mags in one AR. A couple would fall out of the receiver in live fire. I measured the width of the magazine bodies at the level of the magazine latch recess with a digital caliper on about seven of them and found significant variation in width. The wider ones worked fine. The narrower ones were unreliable.
I have a bunch of Gen 3 P mags in 10, 20, and 30 round capacities. I have never had any issues with any of them in any of my ARs. I also have the aluminum magazines from Brownells and some USGI aluminum magazines I bought at gun shows and have had no issues with them either.
When it comes to polymer AR magazines, my favorites are made by Lancer.
E-Lander Israeli, steel, heavy, can be used as a hammer or door stop and will still feed function and fire. 2nd gen P-Mags very good (watch out for knockoffs). Brownells very good. Colt aluminum mil-surp good.
Thermold 30's want to spit out rounds when hot from the mat and I've had a couple go bad at the base plate. The 10's work well.
Lancer's are the most disappointing, like the concept, but they spits rounds when hot.
Henry
My department is just wrapping up the yearly rifle qualifications.
I just saw a mag issue I've never seen before. I believe his was one of the Rock River Arms rifles, and he had a 30rd Pmag Gen 2. Somehow he got the mag inserted so far that it blocked the bolt, and wouldn't easily come out. I had to pry it out with a screwdriver in the ejection port after yanking hard and attempting to "mortar" it out failed. I also failed in prying with lighter items like a sharpie before anybody could fetch a screwdriver.
The training lieutenant said that was the 2nd one he saw during qualifications.
I do notice that the Gen 3 Pmag have an additional stop built into them, and I'm assuming that's why.
I've seen many people, in many disciplines, begin drifting away from PMAGs for similar reasons. Personally I have also given up on them, at least for AS-type shooting. I only have experience with the Gen-M2 versions - don't even own any Gen-M3's - but they consistently give me issues when I use them at AS events.
(*disclaimer* My 20rd PMAGs have given me issues at Appleseed events, but have never been used in any other capacity. Most of my 30rd PMAGs have worked fine in run-&-gun style events, but have never even been tried at an AS. The mags that are prone to hiccups are marked and only used in practice.)
Captain's idea about marking them and keeping track of which ones are suspect, is exactly what I've been doing. Highly recommended.
Switched to OKAY Industries 20rd SureFeed magazines with the gray teflon coating this past July, and they've been 100% so far. Never tried the Brownells mags but heard good things about them.
The reason for the G3 is because of the known issues with the G2. Magpul is a supporter of freedom and makes a quality product.
January 2, 2014
"Moving operations to locations that support our culture of individual liberties and personal responsibility is important," Magpul CEO Richard Fitzpatrick said in a statement...Wyoming Gov. Matt Mead said in a statement that Wyoming offers Magpul "a firm commitment to uphold the Second Amendment."
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2014/01/02/company-makes-good-on-leaving-colo-over-gun-laws/4293453/
Quote from: 2wheelDuke on October 22, 2019, 04:09:22 PM
.......mag issue I've never seen before............30rd Pmag Gen 2. Somehow........got the mag inserted so far that it blocked the bolt, and wouldn't easily come out....................I do notice that the Gen 3 Pmag have an additional stop built into them, and I'm assuming that's why.
Yep, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Six years ago during a carbine class I stuck a Gen 2 Pmag in my rifle TIGHTLY. Finally got it out, but not soon, not on the line, and not in time if I had really needed the rifle. :'( I too notice Gen 3 Pmags now have the little stop on the back. I trust them, USGI 20 & 30 aluminum, and Lancer 10, 20 & 30 rounders. I have some Troy and Amend 2 but have not run them yet to say I trust them. Moral of the story, test your stuff.