Optics, what works for an AR15 for Appleseed KD or HP rifle:
HP rifle competitors are for the most part all using Optics now. I'll list those in here, ones that are known to work and issues known with some of them.
We are limited to 4.5X in this sport, so....I'll only address those, but....it likely applies to others as well. If you are in the market for a scope that will work with an AR15 out to 600 or even 1000 yards, consider a 4.5X, it is really all you will need. It will be more than adequate for an Appleseed KD AR15 rifle.
Nope...a Tasco scope will not get the job done, so forget about that, you are only inviting problems/issues.
What is known to work:
- Nightforce
- March
- Vortex
- Athalon
- Hi Lux
- Leupold
The above list is by no means inclusive of all, and there are some significant price differences between the above, they are somewhat listed in order from High Cost to Low Cost. Night Force and March are about $2000 optics, and the rest below that range from $350-700 ish
Reliability.....
Night Force: I know of a few Night Force shooters that have had to return the scopes for issues, but only know a few that have had issues. The AMU is using the Night Forces. Benefit is glass clarity and 1/4 MOA per click. Service is reliable and timely.
March: Very expensive, 1/4 MOA per click, but very expensive. They have pretty much discontinued their service rifle scope line, but still support it. I shoot a March, and one drawback is if it ever needs service it needs to go back to Japan, a 2-3 Month wait to get it back.
Athalon: that is a very reasonably priced optic (under $500) with some great features, like side focus, which will help when dry firing at close distances. I believe this is also 1/4 MOA and it has a very tiny dot to focus on. I know the High Master that was chosen to test the scope for our sport and he has put it thru its paces. It is a GREAT optic and very reasonably priced.
Vortex: PST 1-4 is one that many have used as well, I've not heard of a lot of issues with them, but there has been some. Vortex customer service is great, this is a 1/2 MOA scope, and it has no side focus for dry fire. 1/2 MOA is more than adequate for HP rifle or AS KD shooting.
Many have stopped using the Leupolds, not bagging on Leupold, but two Hi Master shooters I know used to have a brass dead blow with them, and would have to tap the turrets after making adjustments. I have some Leupold hunting scopes and have never had an issue. Leupold customer service/warranty is awesome.
Hi-Lux: Not a lot of experience with that one personally, but I have seen several earn their Distinguished Rifle badge with that scope. Reasonably priced, and good customer service.
If it is not on the above list, there is likely a good reason. Consider that a competitive HP rifle shooter will send anywhere from 500-1500 rounds down range annually at 600 yards (2000-4000 total) and that we are spinning on those knobs a lot.
Reliability for tracking over significant time is something that is to be valued.
Clicks can can become erratic over time on some cheaper models. What I am paying for, and expect, is that every time I put 11 MOA on my rifle from a 200 yard zero at 600 yards, that my rifle will actually do what I am telling it to do.
There may be some scopes I have missed, and please do respond with what any of those are, but also please list why you are recommending it. For me I am only interested in scopes that will track repeatedly over time and a lot of rounds/recoil abuse.
MOA is preferred, but some are doing very well with MIL. A MIL is about 1/3 MOA so that is actually a bit finer of an adjustment than 1/2 MOA. But 1/2 MOA or less is definitely the standard. 1 MOA clicks would be tough, but it also could work, just not ideal.
There are only 2 mounts I would recommend, the mounts I use are:
Giessele National Match
DNZ Freedom Reaper
Those 2 mounts above will set the center of the optic to the center of your eyeball, and will get the scope positioned forward enough for a repeatable nose to charging handle cheek weld.
If you are using another mount, feel free to post that up as well. I know some are using the Vortex and Burris rings, and they are fine as well.
Key with any mount and the AR15 for 3 position shooting, is to get that mount FWD to allow for a repeatable cheek weld and CRYSTAL CLEAR, CRISP and IMMEDIATE sight picture (this typically requires the ocular to be 1.5 inches or further from the rear of the upper receiver assuming you are using an as issued A1 or A2 stock, or something like a MAGPUL UBR....in other words, no cheek riser). If you have a stock with an adjustable cheek riser, you can obviously use something different like a higher mount, but the 1.5 inches or more FWD still applies with the AR15.
R/
Chris
Quote from: USNAVYCHIEF(Ret) on October 02, 2019, 11:03:03 AM
MOA is preferred, but some are doing very well with MIL. A MIL is about 1/3 MOA so that is actually a bit finer of an adjustment than 1/2 MOA. But 1/2 MOA or less is definitely the standard. 1 MOA clicks would be tough, but it also could work, just not ideal.
0.1 MIL is about 1/3 MOA
I will add one that has done very well for me and cost way less:
Nikon P-223 1.5-4.5x20mm on the DNZ Freedom Reaper
The scope was $175. I used it in my first KD and went 5 for 5 on Rifleman scores (224-233-237-238-225). My rifle is a Colt AR15A4 (20" bbl 1:7 twist) and I shoot cheap, domestic 55 grain FMJ.
I also hold the 2019 high average in my local club's monthly service rifle match with high scores of 447-2X and 448-5X. (500 possible)
At the KD, I tested the BDC rather than clicking up on one stage and it was right on. My come-ups from a 100 yard zero were 2-2-3-4-5 out to 600 yards.
I will admit that I'm not the shooter you are nor am I as serious in my pursuits, but I've been very impressed for the small outlay. YMMV.
Mitch
Natchez has the Nikon M-223 for $150. It's pretty highly thought of on the national match forum, for what that's worth. 1/4 minute click target turrets and Nikon glass is a great combination, if it holds up to all the dial changes of XTC shooting.
https://www.natchezss.com/nikon-m-223-rifle-scope-1-4x20mm-point-blank-reticle-matte.html (https://www.natchezss.com/nikon-m-223-rifle-scope-1-4x20mm-point-blank-reticle-matte.html)
I have the Athlon scope and I like it a lot. The only problem I've had is the illumination never works, but since it's not really needed (most of the time) I get by without it.
Quote from: Captain on November 04, 2019, 10:12:41 AM
I have the Athlon scope and I like it a lot. The only problem I've had is the illumination never works, but since it's not really needed (most of the time) I get by without it.
Some of the early Athlon scopes had brighter but less reliable illumination modules than the ones they have used the last couple years. They will replace it regardless as they have a warranty that is like Vortex.
Quote from: HammBone on October 30, 2019, 02:03:41 PM
I will add one that has done very well for me and cost way less:
Nikon P-223 1.5-4.5x20mm on the DNZ Freedom Reaper
I too use a Nikon P223 1.5 x 4.5 and like it very much. Price is right and it works well for me on a stock S&W MP 15 and PMC 55 gr FMJs.
Gus
I tend to favor two-piece ring setups over unimounts, because they allow for more flexibility and precision in getting your scope in just the right spot on the rail, and are lighter as well. My favored brand is the Nightforce Ultralight rings, which will run you a little under $200. I've experimented with cheaper ones from time to time, to see if my money was being wasted, but every time I've come to come to regret the cheaper purchase (snap!)
I've tried a number of different scopes. I tend to like ones with a high magnification range, since I tend not to suffer very much from the common tendency to muscle the rifle if overzoomed.
My favorite inexpensive scope ($500) is the Shepherd Rugged 1-8. It has some very nice locking turrets, clear glass, a forgiving eyebox, and really nice, really bright dual-color illumination. Weighs about 19 ounces. The drawbacks are that there's no 1/4 MOA model... choose .1 mil or 1/2 MOA only, the reticle is a little busy for my taste, and the parallax is fixed at 100 yards.
My favorite money-not-a-concern ($2400) scope is the March Tactical 1-10. March glass is like nothing else, the extra magnification is a nice bonus, and the parallax adjustment is really easy to get right.