It seems that CCI is the golden standard for reliable and working 22LR ammo. But since I've only taken one appleseed course, I'm curious to hear from people that have attended more than one shoot if they have noticed failures happen with a specific type or brand of ammo. Is there any specific 22LR ammo that you choose to avoid? Thanks!
thunderduds
My personal experience, eley in the bulk boxes from the cmp. It was worse for me and my buddy than thunderbolt!
Remington Golden and Winchester seem to have a lot of duds.
Armscorps.
Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners. For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk. I second Armscorp as nasty as well. My experience with Winchester Super X and M-22 has been fine. CCI seems to be the gold standard; I have always liked the high velocity offerings but after seeing sub-dime sizes groups from a favorite rifle this past weekend, Standard Velocity has moved into contention.
In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.
Tres deer-tay...
CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to. I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.
Quote from: Monkey on August 22, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.
Tres deer-tay...
CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to. I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.
I've only bought 2 50 rounds off of Armscor, and I'm not happy with the waxed casings that ended up sticking in the magazines.
If you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with Aguila in your experiences?
Aguila has exhibited case head separations at more than one Appleseed where I was either a Shoot Boss or an Instructor.
Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 22, 2019, 11:10:40 PM
Quote from: Monkey on August 22, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
In my short time, my rule thumb is "Stay Away from the 'A'"...that is, Armscor and Aguila.
Tres deer-tay...
CCI, both SV and Blazer, have been my go-to. I've seen Eley perform pretty well, too.
I've only bought 2 50 rounds off of Armscor, and I'm not happy with the waxed casings that ended up sticking in the magazines.
If you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with Aguila in your experiences?
I've heard about the issues that Guntuckian speaks of; my experience is that, although not as dirty as Armscor, WWB, or Remington (anything), it's relatively dirty ammo. After about 150-200 rounds, I've seen consistent malfunctions associated with that ammo.
Quote from: The Wolfhound on August 22, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners. For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk. I second Armscorp as nasty as well.
And here I was thinking that the Golden Bullets were Remington's 'Premium' 22LR ammo. Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 23, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Quote from: The Wolfhound on August 22, 2019, 10:10:11 PM
Though they improved about 6 years ago, Remington Golden bullets are filthy. I used to cringe when they were fed to my loaners. For quite awhile they were all you could find in bulk. I second Armscorp as nasty as well.
And here I was thinking that the Golden Bullets were Remington's 'Premium' 22LR ammo. Thanks for pointing that out.
Oh, dear G-d, no. Golden Bullet, Thunderbolt - utter crap. more duds per box than anything else.
I agree with most of the posts on this but I would like to add something. For one all 22LR ammo is fairly cheap and fairly dirty. At 3 to 6 cents a round we cant complain too much. But one thing not covered here is the rifle itself. Some rifles will truly shoot any ammo you feed it with no problems at all. Even when they get gummed up with junk they will continue to run whatever you send down it. That being said some are much more particular. I have "fixed" many rifles on the line by simply changing ammo. Some rifles will not cycle with standard ammo. Switch to High speed. Some just wont shoot the cheep stuff. Switch to something else.
So on top of everything which others have said buy a few boxes of assorted "Try this" ammo and see what your rifle likes. If it wont shoot one brand then dont buy that any more.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: Question Mark Mike on August 22, 2019, 06:35:14 PM
It seems that CCI is the golden standard for reliable and working 22LR ammo. But since I've only taken one appleseed course, I'm curious to hear from people that have attended more than one shoot if they have noticed failures happen with a specific type or brand of ammo. Is there any specific 22LR ammo that you choose to avoid? Thanks!
With what Steve said why torture yourself with known questionable ammo? Misfires are usually a priming problem, confirmed by rotating it so the rim is hit in a different spot and it goes bang.
Does anyone have input on current production Federal rimfire ammo? Pre 2013 crisis Automatch was pretty decent but I heard reports here that it was having problems a years or so ago.
Thanks
Quote from: Charles McKinley on August 23, 2019, 07:14:12 PM
With what Steve said why torture yourself with known questionable ammo? Misfires are usually a priming problem, confirmed by rotating it so the rim is hit in a different spot and it goes bang.
Does anyone have input on current production Federal rimfire ammo? Pre 2013 crisis Automatch was pretty decent but I heard reports here that it was having problems a years or so ago.
Not current production, but AutoMatch from 2017-ish(?) timeframe gives us fits with the Civil Air Patrol group that bought a stockpile of it. They only shoot it through instructor loaner 10/22s, and misfires/stovepipes are common. This year they supplemented with Winchester M-22, and we had half a dozen partial case head separations with that, blowing smoke out the ejection port.
Now that .22LR is no longer 14 cpr, there's no excuse for shooting unreliable bulk ammo unless you're just blasting at tin cans to make noise. I like CCI SV, but I know other instructors who swear by other brands, so try a few as others have said.
FWIW & YMMV.
Between my boys, their friends, and I have put nearly 10,000, yes 10K, rounds of Aguila SuperExtra 40 grn mostly through our three 10/22s. Not one malfunction that I can recall even in very dirty rifles.
I did an accuracy test with five different brands of ammo through our three 10/22s, (off a bench), and the Aguila consistently shot cloverleaf or better groups.
Next best was Federal Champion Target 22 LR High Velocity 40grn. Consistently dime size groups.
Blazer shot consistent quarter size groups.
Federal AutoMatch 22 LR 40gr was not good. Softball size groups.
Federal Champion 22 LR 36gr HP looked like a bad shotgun pattern.
All were shot on a squares target at 25 meters.
FWIW we've had poor luck with Federal automatch...lots of misfires and misfeeds in my daughter's 10/22. My Marlin 795 and Tipmann M4-22 seem to eat most anything and not care. CCI both SV and Blazer run reliably in the 10/22. Best advice I saw was buy a few boxes of various kinds and see what your (dirty) rifle likes. CCI is available for as low as 4 cents a round. Link in the Deals and Steals board.
Based on my 12 seasons of Appleseeding, CCI Mini Mags and Blazer have proven to be top performers in the majority of rifles even when dirty.
The ammo has more than enough accuracy to shoot Rifleman scores.
Remington bulk, is the most common ammo here in NM but is at the top of the heap for "duds". YMMV.
TG
The very best ammo to bring to an event is center fire, preferably in .30 caliber size. ^-^
Quote from: PHenry on August 24, 2019, 03:38:13 PM
The very best ammo to bring to an event is center fire, preferably in .30 caliber size. ^-^
Especially 30.06.
I have an old girl who likes that stuff. Her name is "Sally" and she's two years older'n me. O0
I have had very good luck with CCI Standard Velocity 40 grain and Aguila Super Extra High Velocity. I can't recall having a misfire with either in my Ruger 10/22s.
I would agree with those who recommend staying away from Remington bulk ammo, either Thunderbolts or Golden Bullets.
I have had better luck with Federal Auto Match than Remington bulk. One of my 10/22s cycles it fine but the other will have an occasional stovepipe. I expect to have a handful of misfires per box with either rifle. Misfires are rather frustrating when they occur during an AQT.
The best I've found accuracy wise for my 10/22 is the federal champion 40 grain high velocity but it had occasional failure to ejects. CCI Blazer functions all the time and is only slightly less accurate so I've run with that. I do need another case of the federal champion as my M44US loved it.
Another question- was the older Remington UMC 22LR ammo just as bad as the currently made Remington 22LR ammo?
Quote from: cwcdl79 on August 22, 2019, 07:11:11 PM
My personal experience, eley in the bulk boxes from the cmp. It was worse for me and my buddy than thunderbolt!
Eley CMP worked well for me in a bolt CZ455, and also a Colt-Walther M4 which has an adjustable action. However, in a brand new Series 3 Collector 10/22 I experienced several FTE in an Appleseed 40 round series - accuracy was very good however, at about 1 MOA - it may be the rifle extractor, or break-in, or may be the Eley round not having enough force to ensure the Ruger 10/22 to cycle correctly. I also tried Federal Auto Match in the Ruger, which typically has not been as accurate, but I still experienced some FTE problems. CCI Mini Mag is next.
In my experience, Thunderbolts are reliable and accurate in my bolt guns. (Savage Mark I , Ruger American and Kimber 82.) For semi-autos...not so much.
I avoid thunderbolt and M-22 like the plague. They're dirty, and inconsistently made. I've even had M-22 with such a horrible crimp that the bullet bent sideways when I tried to get it into a magazine. It was that loose.
CCI Standard Velocity (CCI SV) works well in everything, and my Marlin 795 likes Federal Automatch, although my 10/22s aren't so great with it.
Interestingly, if you look at this link to a 22LR ammo review (https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test), you'll notice that in amongst all the high-dollar Eley and Target loadings, are a few cheapie standouts.
CCI SV
CCI Mini Mag
Federal American Eagle
Federal Gold Medal
Federal Champion Target
I can find all 5 of these locally for $5/box or cheaper. I'd recommend buying a 50ct box of each and seeing what you and your rifle like. Then go online and order a case.
For what we do at Appleseed, each of these are plenty accurate.
I have several 10/22s a couple of Marlin 795s and an Anschutz Achiever bolt action. All of them shoot CCI standard velocity very well. Next in line is a toss up between CCI mini mags (the40 gr copper plated rn or the 36 gr hollow points). Federal target has been good as well. The Marlins love Norma TAC but it is very greasy. Aguila super extra has been fine in my rifles and I've plowed through at least 5000 of them in the past year: no head separations and no misfires. A few failures to eject but the same can be said of the CCI ammo. This winter here in Alaska I did a lot of shooting when it was below zero. The CCI mini mags were tops for reliability in cycling the actions of the semi autos.
Oh, and to answer the topic question stay away from the Remington stuff. It is not the ammo for an appleseed clinic.
What Gus said: ^^^^^^
It's a crying shame, Remington is a fine name and has made untold numbers of fine rifles and ammo; but .22LR is NOT their strength. Remington bulk "golden garbage" has caused a disproportionate number of failures on my lines. Way past the possibility of it being coincidence. But, maybe it works great in single shot bolts. I wouldn't trust my life or my patch on it. CCI blue box standard velocity is my go-to after extensive testing for both function and accuracy.
--FF
Try Gemtech. It's pricey. It can be shot without suppressor. I shot a 233 with a basic 10/22.
My son and I went through almost an entire box (1100 rounds) of the Federal Blackbox 38 grain CPHP at an event without a single dud (my ER Shaw barrel got dirty towards the end of day 2 and had some failure to feeds). I was able to shoot one 242 with that ammo and was consistently in the 230s. That said, I'm starting to wonder if that was a one-off promotional that Federal was running back around Thanksgiving as I have been seeing some things around the interwebs that indicate that ammo is no longer in production. Can anyone confirm?
The Federal Black Pack was in stock up till the current shortage at Natchez and various other sites. The rebates and sales (3.4 cents per round) that Federal was running on it ended. Hope production didn't.
I bought 8800 rounds (2 cases) in February/March to hedge against future shortages and quality declines as the factories ramp up. So VERY happy to hear it is reliable and accurate.
Well, take my experience for what it is: anecdotal, at best. But it sure made me want some more, especially at the price point. Yeah, the promotional rebates ended, but I, like you, hope it stays in production, even at MSRP.
also worth noting Any 22lr ammo can go bad in 1 years time with bad storage
had a case of Federal auto match 3250 rounds. shot half the case in the spring , it sat in my van in a tool box 1 year till the following spring. shooting the second half of that case of ammo was infuriating it turned the 22/45s it had cycled well in the previous year into jam-o-matics ended up getting used in bolt action rifles as it would not fully cycle about 30% of the time many more duds than the previous year from less than 1 in a hundred to around 1 in 25.
when you get ammo especially 22lr , seal it up dry and keep it in a climate controlled space in an air tight ammo can if you can
the toolbox was wood and the ammo was in the factory boxes
Remington Golden Bullet - stay away. The 3 times I used it was really really bad.
The accuracy was horrible - maybe 12 MOA at best one time. I thought I was losing it and had another instructor try. Same results. I wound up giving the people that had it some CCI and then life was good.
Other times was maybe 6-8 MOA at best. And I usually shoot in the high 230's. Lots of times in the 240s. So it wasn't me.
Take your intended ammo to the range, fire several boxes. I know tough to do with the days shortages. Zero your sights and watch what is going on with your ammo. With a 10/22 failure to feed can be several things, but the thing I run into most is mag problems, the metal lips are too rough and will not consistently release the round, shows up by the bolt just pushing the round down instead of feeding. If ammo has too much wax, it builds up making life tough at the range. Thunderduds has to be the worst. SK has lots of wax, Geco shoots well until the wax starts to build. wiping off the wax helps. CCI, Blazers, Aguila shoots well. Browning has always shot well for me but is usually bought in bulk. Mostly what your rifle likes, so do the time, stay away from what doesn't work for your rifle.
Good luck,
Jtdiver
I have been finding that with Federal Target and CCI I get about 250 to 300 rounds of worry free functioning before the failures to eject (FTE) begin. A quick swab of the chamber and I'm back in the game.
Aquila, which is pretty good stuff, gives me around 200 to 250 rounds of worry free functioning before the FTEs begin.
Remington seems to function ok, but useful accuracy is not there.
However! In this day and age of ammo shortages, if I found a box of remingtons, I would buy it and use it.
Gus
my ruger 10/22 cycles Eley 40 and Blazer 36 well. CCI of course when you can get it. Everything else...not so much.
QuoteAt 3 to 6 cents a round we cant complain too much.
I didn't realize how old this thread was and I saw this and I was about to ask "where the hell are you getting ANY 22lr ammo for 6 cents a round?" Then I saw the date was back in 2019.
One note - as instructors, we should pay attention to what people are bringing to shoots. While I am not concerned with specific brands/loads (although we all have learned lessons from different manufacturers), we have had shooters bring ammunition that caused equipment issues:
- 22 Long/Short/CB: Sometimes the boxes nearly exactly the same and inexperienced (and desperate) shooters may buy thinking it is all the same (or it was all they could get). This ammunition will likely cause malfunctions in semi-automatic rifles. We had someone bring 22 Long to a shoot in Annapolis a couple years ago, and that was before the shortages.
- 22LR Quiet: CCI has been releasing a lot of this low velocity (710fps, vs 1090-ish standard velocity) ammunition online this week. While there are some squib warnings about using it in longer/match barrels (CZ has a warning), mainly it will not function in semi-autos. There is a specific semi-auto variant (45gr @ 835fps) that is supposed to work, but that has been sold out.
Both of these may also
sound like a squib compared to normal 22LR. If they are using a bolt action, may not be a big deal.
22WMR and 17HMR: One of my shooters accidentally bought 17HMR for a shoot even though he meant to buy 22LR. Not dangerous as it won't chamber - more of a "doh!" moment. But, again, packaging can be hard to spot for new shooters.
I run a regular 4H juniors rifle class, and we've gone through a lot of different loads in the last couple years, both stuff we issued and that was brought in by parents. My current impression for the usual 40 grain round nose load quality is:
Federal = CCI > Winchester = Aguila > Remington = Armscor
Within each brand the predictable variation in quality from premium down to 'bucket o' bullets' (factory sweepings). CCI has fallen off a bit the last couple years but is still better than average. Remington has had poor quality for some time now, hopefully the new owners fix the place. I'd still avoid them, Armscor and 'no name' brands if possible.
'Match' loads are all pretty good as far as going bang, and it's more a matter of what your rifle likes. Various of our shooters have used Eley, Wolf Match (SK) and Federal Gold with good results.
ETA: I run Wolf Match Target in my 10/22 target model, and CCI Tactical (when I can get it, which I can't) or SV in my regular 10/22s. My wife also uses the Wolfies in the Ruger 77/22 she sometimes shoots at 'seeds.
With the current shortages, and companies trying to pump out ammo as fast as possible, has anyone seen a decrease in quality of brands/loads that are normally g2g?
Quote from: Sheepdog87 on February 18, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
With the current shortages, and companies trying to pump out ammo as fast as possible, has anyone seen a decrease in quality of brands/loads that are normally g2g?
Yup - even 'good' brands can have an off batch. I usually go with CCI SV and buy it by the case. Last year around this time I was about to buy another case and for some reason decided to only buy two bricks. Good move - it sucked big time. Lots of flyers. Two of my friends had bought a bunch around the same time and they weren't happy at all.
Question for you all, any one have a good idea where to get 22 ammo these days? Most of the local stores are out. Hard to shot when you can not buy ammo.
I've been watching the in-stock reloading/ammo subreddits and channel on Discord. Haven't snagged anything yet, but the discord seems to be more accurate than the subreddits. A couple times I've actually been able to add to cart, but then the prices make me almost gag.
Quote from: john hixson on February 18, 2021, 03:41:52 PM
Question for you all, any one have a good idea where to get 22 ammo these days? Most of the local stores are out. Hard to shot when you can not buy ammo.
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr
They've got Norma 22-Tac listed for 80 bucks a brick. Yeah - way high. But cheaper than what I've seen recently. I'd buy some myself but tapped out right now. It was 14 cents a round a few hours ago - now 16 cents a round. Get it while you can.
I've heard it is pretty decent stuff. One of my friends swears by it.
CCI Mini Mags when I positively CAN'T afford any misfeeds. CCI standard is #2. And
I avoid bulk Federal after one of their squibs blew out my 10/22 barrel.
Eley bulk works well in my 10/22 and Ruger pistol but not as reliable in my Glock 44.
Quite frankly, I'm doing MUCH more dry fire rifle practice, and dry fire, laser 9mm cartridge, and air soft pistol practice to avoid running low.
I was having a lot of issues with an AR-22 that I had assembled with the copper washed Aguila High Velocity. The problem came to a head when I had a squib. Apparently the round didn't get very far into the barrel and it pushed out the chamber end very easily. I took my calipers to it and found that over 3 lots, they consistently measured .255 inches in diameter where the mini-mags were consistently .224
Quote from: Evil_G on January 06, 2022, 06:45:58 AM
I was having a lot of issues with an AR-22 that I had assembled with the copper washed Aguila High Velocity. The problem came to a head when I had a squib. Apparently the round didn't get very far into the barrel and it pushed out the chamber end very easily. I took my calipers to it and found that over 3 lots, they consistently measured .255 inches in diameter where the mini-mags were consistently .224
I've also observed Aguilas that have a rim thickness that is on the short end of spec. If you've got a rifle with a worn firing pin or bolt handle slot (on bolties obviously) you might have some misfire issues through failure to get enough crush to detonate the primer. I've run into this on some older Anschutz rifles owned by our youth shooting group that have been shot a
lot. Swapping for different ammo may fix the misfires; I find that Federal is more reliable in those old guns.
What Doc said. O0
In 10+ years I can't remember ever having a problem with CCI Mini Mags. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I choose the CCI over even the Lapua 10X when it comes time to re-qual.
Wreck
Quote from: Old Navy Doc on February 27, 2021, 10:22:07 PMCCI Mini Mags when I positively CAN'T afford any misfeeds. CCI standard is #2. And
Quite frankly, I'm doing MUCH more dry fire rifle practice, and dry fire, laser 9mm cartridge, and air soft pistol practice to avoid running low.
Quote from: Old Navy Doc on February 27, 2021, 10:22:07 PM
CCI Mini Mags when I positively CAN'T afford any misfeeds. CCI standard is #2. And
I avoid bulk Federal after one of their squibs blew out my 10/22 barrel.
Eley bulk works well in my 10/22 and Ruger pistol but not as reliable in my Glock 44.
Quite frankly, I'm doing MUCH more dry fire rifle practice, and dry fire, laser 9mm cartridge, and air soft pistol practice to avoid running low.
Doc, my list looks nearly to yours; I put CCI Blazer 22lr just ahead of CCI standard - have had marginally better success with Blazer. That's not saying much, as both have been super reliable for me across several platform types - Ruger SR22, Buckmark Tactical, standard 10/22s, 10/22 Takedown, M&P 15-22, etc.
Fiocchi has been kind to me as well.
Norma TAC-22 . . . Anyone using this?
I love Norma Tac-22, it's very waxy to touch but I haven't had any feed issues.
It's one of my most accurate rounds out of my Precision bolt and runs reliably in my Semi-Auto's.
Coincidentally, Norma sent out a mailer yesterday offering bricks of it as low as $47 through their website, wish I could get it shipped direct but I chose poorly for my home state.
Norma TAC-22 is good to go. The wax does build up, but it actually makes the build-up really easy to clean.
I've literally just wiped off the bolt with a paper towel and everything came off.
Ammo to avoid - CCI "Clean," especially the "RealTree" variant.
The coating that they use has massive variance in thickness, enough to cause serious problems in M&P 15/22 P.C. models, and when it burns, it's harder to clean up than wax or parafin.
I made the mistake of buying 2000 rounds of it, only to find that it's not safe in tight tolerance Semi-Autos.
Pump, Lever, or Bolt only, where you can confirm positive bolt lock very time.
What works best depends on how the rifle is setup. Stock rifles tend to run best. The more you hang off the bolt ( extensions ) the more weight the bolt has to move to cycle. Find out what works best in your rifle before the shoot. Over all through the years Standard CCI seems to work best in most rifles. The bulk ammo is cheap for a reason. We ran 5000 rounds thru a 10/22 just to see how dirty one could get before we had an increase in malfunctions. Practicing with cheap ammo works okay but bring the good stuff to the range for Appleseed. YMMV
I personally have had my best accuracy with S&K standard (when I can find it) after that I shoot a lot of Eley target. They both seem to function well with good accuracy in all of my 22lr rifles including 3 Ruger 10/22's. I keep a stock of various 22lr ammo to test in new rifles because you just never know what one will like without testing. I had a Henry lever that shot great groups with Winchester white box bulk ammo, but wouldn't group target ammo for anything. You just never know. And who doesn't enjoy test firing?