So the instructors did mention using red dots at the recent Appleseed class I took. Do any of you use red dots for classes? Maybe something like the Bushnell TRS-25?
I've seen them, but students usually are challenged with them. Dot size too large, not tracking well, etc. I have not personally used a red dot for an appleseed.
Most red dot sights are non-magnified. If your eyes are good enough that you don't need magnification to clearly see the small, scaled 400 yard silhouettes on the Redcoat and AQT targets, a RDS can work pretty well.
The Bushnell TRS-25 is quite a decent sight for its price. But there are a couple of issues with it and other similar RDS in that price range. I believe that Bushnell advertises a 3 MOA dot size for that optic, but in truth, I believe that 4 MOA is closer to the truth. And less expensive RDS are more likely to "starburst" and have a less well-defined dot outline. A 4 MOA dot will cover more than 1 inch of your target at 25 meters. For the very small silhouettes, that means the dot will cover up most of the target, and you will essentially have to "look through" the dot.
A red dot sight also poses some obvious limitations when the target or bull is red, or close to red. That becomes an issue when shooting the Redcoat targets. Red dots also tend to wash out a bit in bright sunlight. Green dot sights are much more visible in bright daylight conditions and can usually be run at a lower intensity which reduces the tendency to starburst.
On the other hand, RDS are very intuitive for most people to use, and eliminate the need for precise sight alignment, which can be a major obstacle to accuracy for some shooters. If you have a good quality "micro" sized green dot sight with a crisp 2 MOA dot size, I think it could work very well for AS, providing again that you do not require magnification to clearly see the small silhouettes to center on them.
My daughter and I used them on the first day of our first Appleseed. Went home that night, swapped both for scopes. IMO, red dots are for pistols.
I use a non-magnified EOTECH with 4 MOA dot on my AR-15, and have scored as high as a 242 with it, using commercially-available non-match ammo.
Seen it done. Effectiveness depends on application.
At 25M gets more difficult with the smaller (i.e. 400 yd) targets, as the dot tends to consume the target. Even more so for the Redcoat target.
At KD ranges, not as much as a deal, if you can figure out what your holdovers are. FWIW, I saw a first time KD student engage a target at 600 yds using a red dot with holdovers, all rounds in the black.
I did my first shoot with an AR-15 with an EOtech on top and a conversion bolt. It was tough, and I moved onto a different rifle before long.
I did shoot some squares recently with a TRS-25 on a 10/22 Charger. I was doing well enough on the squares that I will have to run an AQT for fun.
Quote from: pblanc on July 31, 2019, 12:36:16 PM
A red dot sight also poses some obvious limitations when the target or bull is red, or close to red. That becomes an issue when shooting the Redcoat targets. Red dots also tend to wash out a bit in bright sunlight. Green dot sights are much more visible in bright daylight conditions and can usually be run at a lower intensity which reduces the tendency to starburst.
Yikes, I never thought of the red dot color blurring in with the redcoat targets. That would be problematic. Thank you for pointing that out.
Agree with Monkey - it can be done and is one of many challenges worth trying with AS.
My highest score with a TRS-25 red dot is 231, which is decent for my eyes. I advocate a 6-o'clock hold using the top of the dot on the prone targets. Pretty easy to do center hold with seated and standing. I get the starburst from any dot due to an astigmatism, but if there is a rear sight aperture, it makes the dot more round. Both eyes open and focusing on the target (looking through the dot - the opposite of front-sight focus) can help too.
Agree that it makes the red coat harder!
They can also be helpful for first time youth shooters, inside and outside Appleseed, where you are trying to take things like scope eye relief, sight picture, etc. out of the equation.