Hello All,
I broke down and bought a Gun safe, I have always heard, Buy the Biggest safe You can. So I bought an 80 gun safe.
I was thinking Long guns on one side and Carbine length, rifles on the other. Maybe a bit of ammo in loaded Mags in the bottom of the Carbine side.
Does any one have a better Idea? Please let Me know. Pictures welcome. Thank You.
TomM1 Thumb
I find that it does not matter how I load the safe, the rifle I need is in the back. Mags have a tendency to migrate around if not placed in a container. Sorry I can't be more help, I'm up to 3 safes, and every time I organize them, they are jumbled back up within a month or two.
I kind of figured that But, at least for a While I will have some room. Thank You
As far as long guns go, my experience has been that a safe will comfortably hold 1/4 of what its advertised capacity is. I have 2, 80 gun safes, and I'd rather not go any more than 20 long guns in each. Keep in mind they don't account for optics or bipods. They take up more room than you'd think.
Any reccomendations for or against on safes? I'm planning on getting one in the next month or so, so in the research phase.
Thanks!
Two things I would say.
One. Once you pick out the size you want get a bigger one. They never hold what they say they will. A stopped at takes up 3 spots in most safes. That and others in your household are likely to want to put something other than a gun in it eventually. So go bigger than you need.
Two. For my opinion don't worry to much about brand. Look at features and be realistic. The fire ratings are easy to compare but what will you have in it. Do you really need a safe that will withstand 10000 degrees for 5 hours. Most houses are going to burn down or be put out in about an hour. Then you need a safe cracker to open it but the guns are ok.
Also it is dark in most safes. I added lights in mine. Some safes you can't get power inside so think about if you want that feature.
I have liberty safes. Made here and very stout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNX7zXsM0R8
Gun Storage Solutions has some interesting products to pack the guns in more densely: https://www.storemoreguns.com/collections/gun-safe-accessories/products/squad-gun-safe-accessories?utm_source=Gun+Storage+Solutions+News&utm_campaign=a7fc213444-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_06_05_01_53&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ee47707965-a7fc213444-333041805&mc_cid=a7fc213444&mc_eid=893e300904
I can offer a little different perspective. My house caught fire in 2011. The windows were closed, so it smoldered. For hours. By the time it was put out, the smoke damage was immense. My gun safe was as far as it could be from the fire. The seal didn't get hot enough to swell, or it simply didn't. Every pistol that was blued looked like it had laid in a field for 20 years- on the side facing up.Complete rust. The other side was perfect. The blued rifles and shotguns were damaged, but not nearly as bad as the pistols. Keep in mind manufacturers aren't much interested in working on a firearm that was in a fire, for obvious reasons. So I guess it all comes down to what you're willing to lose, and how much your willing to spend to protect it. I bought a cheap one (has a picture of a cannon on it). If you own guns that originality is an issue, or heirlooms, spend as much as you can afford. Of course this doesn't even touch the security aspect.
I did a minor modification that didn't really give me more space, but did make it easier to place and remove firearms. I cut into some of the partitioning with a jigsaw, and added in hinges and latches (see picture). Also removed an upper shelf so I could store longer firearms more easily.
Lights are also nice as ScubaSteve mentioned. I got a simple battery powered LED from the local hardware store.
Don't forget to bolt it to the floor.
I hate the electronic combination pads. They eat at least a 9v battery a year. The lead to the battery broke off on my dad's and I still haven't fixed it. If I can't fix the lead it will have to be drilled. The electronics usually only have a year warranty after that it is on you.
I'm very partial to the dial combo safes. I plan on retrofitting a dial onto an electronic safe.
The cheaper safes are just a storage box.
Keep your protection guns out when you are home. The chance of flubbing the combo in an adrenaline dump is too great. It cost me one of our sheep in a dog attack, not again.
Keep an eye on Craigslist & Armslist. You can often find some good deals on used safes as people upgrade, move houses, or scale back their collections.
If your budget is tight, take a look at gun cabinets instead of gun safes. The walls are thinner & lighter, and the cost is substantially lower.
Also, look through the instructor discount offerings at ExpertVoice.com.
Realize a safe for what it is - unless you're spending 5 figures on something that weighs several thousand pounds, it's technically an RSC - residential security container, per UL.
What is your budget? What size do you want/need?
The safes you can buy at the big-box stores - Cabelas, Tractor Supply, Dick's, etc - are slightly better than a cabinet.
The next level would be safes like the ones made by Liberty - but even then they have like five different "levels."
That being said, I'm pretty happy with my Liberty Fatboy. A 64-gun safe, weighs 880 lbs, has electrical outlets, and in concert with a wifi cam with motion detection and home alarm system, should stymie all but the seasoned pro. Delivered and installed, was about $2400.
Quote from: BrotherPilot on June 11, 2019, 07:34:09 AM
Any reccomendations for or against on safes? I'm planning on getting one in the next month or so, so in the research phase.
Thanks!
You have to decide what you want in terms of burglary protection:
below an RSC - don't bother, any tweaker with a screwdriver can open it. Buy an orange job box instead.
RSC - keeps a tweaker with a crowbar out for 5 minutes (but maybe not much longer)
RSC II or class B burglary - keeps a tweaker with a sawzall out for 10 minutes
TL15 - Keeps a skilled safe breaker with good tools (including specialty tools) out for 15min
It's very unlikely you'd want to go past that (TL30, torch and explosives ratings etc.) unless you have extremely valuable guns.
I think RSC II is the sweet spot, but it's a new spec so there aren't may safes yet and they're almost as pricey as TL-15.
Starting at RSC II, things start to get heavy and expensive. Especially for a big safe like you're thinking about. Think about where it goes and how you get it there.
Then consider fire protection. It adds a lot of weight, but not much cost. However consider that your homeowners insurance may cover burglary and fire very differently - many cover firearms burglaries only up to a few thousand, but firearms damaged in a fire up to the full value of the policy. That may bias you towards a burglary-oriented safe. On the other hand if you want to protect a lot of documents from fire, that may bias you the other way.
For big RSCs, I like the Browning Hells Canyon, especially if you're concerned about fire. They were heavily discounted at Sheels recently. For "real" TL-15 safes, Brown safe company's HD line is cheap for what you get. Especially if you don't mind building out the interior yourself.
Thanks all for the great advice. I'm leaning toward the Liberty Lincoln at this point. I do have a 'high value item' attachment to the homeowner's policy for the guns. None are silly valuable but put together they're worth a fair bit. The Browning HC is a definite candidate as well. Looking balancing budget vs features.
Thanks!
Northern California had some extreme fires last year. One safe professional donated his time to help those who had lost their homes get into their safes. He said that The American Security BF Series safes did the best for protecting the contents against extreme wildfire that burned homes down to the foundation. Those that did NOT store ammo in the safes did better than those who stored ammo in them.
Get one that is bigger than what you think you need/want.
Bolt it to the floor.
Use mechanical dial rather than electronics.
I would rather have multiple safes rather than one big enough to hold everything. That way I can compartmentalize the items stored inside.
The safe industry has a lot of "snake oil" being sold. Do your research. Ask a lot of questions. Do not assume anything.
Quote from: BrotherPilot on June 13, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Thanks all for the great advice. I'm leaning toward the Liberty Lincoln at this point. I do have a 'high value item' attachment to the homeowner's policy for the guns. None are silly valuable but put together they're worth a fair bit. The Browning HC is a definite candidate as well. Looking balancing budget vs features.
Thanks!
Does your insurance company require a list/inventory of your collection? I've always been very wary of submitting anything like that. Collectibles Insurance offers full coverage, good rates, and no list or inventory.
Quote from: TallSteve on June 13, 2019, 05:45:15 PM
Northern California had some extreme fires last year. One safe professional donated his time to help those who had lost their homes get into their safes. He said that The American Security BF Series safes did the best for protecting the contents against extreme wildfire that burned homes down to the foundation.
The Amsec BF series is very respectable, from both a burglary and fire perspective, but the cost is quite high for what you get - their 72"x50" is similarly priced to a Brown HD 72"x56" with mechanical locks which is a TL-15 safe, larger, with a much higher temp fire rating. The biggest thing that might cause me to get the Amsec BF instead of the Brown HD is that it's less than 1/2 the weight which can be the deciding factor depending on where you need to get it to.
Quote from: Luminous Rabbit on June 18, 2019, 07:28:32 PM
Quote from: TallSteve on June 13, 2019, 05:45:15 PM
Northern California had some extreme fires last year. One safe professional donated his time to help those who had lost their homes get into their safes. He said that The American Security BF Series safes did the best for protecting the contents against extreme wildfire that burned homes down to the foundation.
The Amsec BF series is very respectable, from both a burglary and fire perspective, but the cost is quite high for what you get - their 72"x50" is similarly priced to a Brown HD 72"x56" with mechanical locks which is a TL-15 safe, larger, with a much higher temp fire rating. The biggest thing that might cause me to get the Amsec BF instead of the Brown HD is that it's less than 1/2 the weight which can be the deciding factor depending on where you need to get it to.
I don't think anyone actually pays suggested retail for the AmSec Safes. I have two quotes for The BF 72 by 50 safe you reference. Each delivered to a residence in 96003 with CA tax at 7 percent and installation for $5300. The Brown Safe you reference is about $7980 with tax and without transportation and installation. Let's be kind and say that they would only charge $500 for transporting that heavy safe for 630 miles and doing a basic install. That makes the safe about 60 percent higher cost. That is not similarly priced.
Is the Brown Safe worthy of consideration? Yes. Similar priced: No.
Also worth considering when doing your research: Where are you planning to put it? My brother-in-law selected a very secure, amply large 50 gun safe that weighed about ~1600 pounds with the intent of having it placed in the basement of his home. When they showed up to install it, there was no way for them to get it down the stairs, and the installers refused to try to move it across a wrap-around deck to the downstairs back door because they were afraid it would break through the deck. (You're basically talking about lifting a small car, so I understand their concerns.) So, his guns wound up living without climate control in his garage, because that was the only place they could stick the safe in. Not ideal from either a security or a conservation standpoint.
Fast forward, he's now selling that house and is basically abandoning the mega-safe as part of the sale, because it's too much of a nightmare to move and try to figure out how to get it into his new place. Lesson: He, and his guns, would have been happier splitting the work between two smaller safes.