Picked up a PSA 20" build kit a couple weeks back and got it out to the range today, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on it.
The upper came assembled and the lower went together with no issues. The lower receiver is an Anderson from a local gun shop.
This thing is ugly for sure. The barrel has some odd coating that appears to be cheap, shiny spray paint (who knows, maybe it is). The stock just isn't quite black. The forearm is oval. No, really, oval. It's difficult to pick up in the pics, but, trust me, it's taller than it is wide.
The trigger is typical milspec atrocious.
But, even so, it sure was nice to shoot. I carried M16A1's and M16A2's when I was in the Army, and this is pretty close to that.
I started out from the bench with a scope. All the ammo was IMI, with 77 gr SMK, 69 gr SMK, and 62 gr green tip bullets. Accuracy was not stellar, but none of the ten-shot groups exceeded 4 inches. The best was the 77 gr, at just under 3 inches.
Then I installed the carry handle and shot some more from the bench. The groups, of course, immediately opened up, but, considering the front post was about twice as wide as the target, I think I did okayish. I definitely need some more practice though, because I think I can do better.
Next, I shot from prone. I had it pretty close to zeroed from the bench, and the point of impact dropped as soon as I switched to prone. I assume it is due to the sling tension (this is not a free float barrel). I came up a click on the front post, but I think it could come up another. Anyway, groups were okay from prone.
I finished the day from offhand at a full-size target. I think I had about 36 hits out of 40, so I can definitely improve here as well.
Overall, I am happy to have a 20" AR again and, for the price (less than 600 including the carry handle), I am happy with the performance as well.
Did you purchase online or local? I'm looking to finish a build at some point
Quote from: KG5JIV on June 18, 2018, 12:52:40 AM
Did you purchase online or local? I'm looking to finish a build at some point
I bought everything other than the stripped lower online. PSA had free shipping and it came within a week. Same thing with the UTG carry handle from Optics Planet.
Interesting, having used PSA to build over a half-dozen rifle and pistols I haven't had any shoot over 2MOA with good ammo. The 4 AR rifles I shoot most often 2 are PSA (1ar15, 1ar10) the AR-15 is my normal demo/loaner Rifle. One of our Fl dsb has used a base model 16 ss carbine (sub 200$ lower) to shoot some really nice groups at 600 up in Talladega.
As for finish, I'm cheep, dont buy anything but blems, so I cant attest to the finish prettiness, but mine have held up well. Pretty to me is down on the list of priorities.
IMI 77 have always worked well, you might like to try Hornady 75's both the regular and the steel match. Greentip, always a crap shoot. I've started to shoot a lot of the Wolf 62gr HP's Poly's. Typical Russian powder, your rifle innered's will kind of resemble the bottom of a ashtray, but it shoots well and it's cheep.
If all else fails contact PSA they have always been nice to me over the phone.
Henry
Quote from: stoneknives on June 18, 2018, 12:07:12 PM
Interesting, having used PSA to build over a half-dozen rifle and pistols I haven't had any shoot over 2MOA with good ammo. The 4 AR rifles I shoot most often 2 are PSA (1ar15, 1ar10) the AR-15 is my normal demo/loaner Rifle. One of our Fl dsb has used a base model 16 ss carbine (sub 200$ lower) to shoot some really nice groups at 600 up in Talladega.
I suspect the larger groups can be attributed to two things.
First, this is not a free floated barrel. As seen in the change in POI from no sling to slung, changes in pressure against the forend do seem to effect POI. Of course, this could also be change in head position between bench and prone, not sure.
Also, these are ten shot groups. This not only introduces more heat to the barrel, but also increases the potential for shooter error, which, given the milspec trigger, is significant regardless of shot count.
Overall, I am happy with the results, and it's pretty much what I expected. The standard is four moa and the rifle and ammo are definitely capable. Now I just need to get there myself with the iron sights.
I have the same upper with carry handle sight and built on a PSA lower & lpk.
I agree the milspec trigger in the lpk was bad but it got quite a bit smoother after a few hundred rounds, and the build is a bit rough around the edges but shoots well.
I came within a whisper of qualifying KD several times with Federal M193 last year, so I'm not complaining.
for ar's
the best investment vs performance
hand guard first, as little as 65 for a free float - sling or bipod there is no possibility of consistency without a floated barrel
trigger 2nd - the kit trigger is about 5$ worth of the lower parts, you are not losing much and will have a spare
sights/optics
barrel - the upper price end can be what you paid for the kit
bolt - by the time you want to upgrade this or anything else not already mentioned on an AR to improve performance, might be time to look at bolt action
Quote from: George63 on June 18, 2018, 02:49:49 PM
for ar's
the best investment vs performance
hand guard first, as little as 65 for a free float - sling or bipod there is no possibility of consistency without a floated barrel
trigger 2nd - the kit trigger is about 5$ worth of the lower parts, you are not losing much and will have a spare
sights/optics
barrel - the upper price end can be what you paid for the kit
bolt - by the time you want to upgrade this or anything else not already mentioned on an AR to improve performance, might be time to look at bolt action
Sounds like good advice. However, my intent with this rifle was the whole rack grade rifle thing. I regularly shot expert (36 out of 40 or better) on popups out to 300 meters with an as-issued A2 with standard green tip. I want to see if I can do that at an AS KD. This build was a cheap way to get close to something resembling that A2.
I do have a carbine that'll turn in 1.5" groups all day long with that IMI 77 gr ammo. It's free floated though, and cost about 200 dollars more. My son and I have both shot rifleman with it at 25 meters and KD as well. In fact, my son managed two distinguished AQTs at 25 meters shooting the IMI green tip (and he reminds me regularly lol).
No, I reckon I just wanted a new challenge with this one, or maybe just an excuse for a new rifle. And who could possibly have too many rifles? :F
Quote from: PA10mm on June 18, 2018, 01:29:57 PM
I have the same upper with carry handle sight and built on a PSA lower & lpk.
I agree the milspec trigger in the lpk was bad but it got quite a bit smoother after a few hundred rounds, and the build is a bit rough around the edges but shoots well.
I came within a whisper of qualifying KD several times with Federal M193 last year, so I'm not complaining.
I can't wait to try 400 yards with iron sights. I'll probably run the green tip though, just because that's what was issued with these 1:7 rifles. Or, I'll get nervous, and buy the more expensive 77 gr SMKs.
Reading all of these is helping my confidence! I'm headed to a KD next month and was a little worried about my 16" barrel! It's a bull barrel, free floated, with a polished trigger, and Nikon Optics (old eyes won't let me use irons).
It's that, or the M1 and suffer with those Irons, and THAT trigger.
As for the PSA 20" A2, it's on my list as an addition to the safe! Love that classic look!!
Quote from: Mike AKA Bandaid on June 18, 2018, 07:12:44 PM
Reading all of these is helping my confidence! I'm headed to a KD next month and was a little worried about my 16" barrel! It's a bull barrel, free floated, with a polished trigger, and Nikon Optics (old eyes won't let me use irons).
Sounds like a good combination to me. Lots of 16" KD riflemen and women out there, it won't hurt your chances at all. An Air Force guy shot a perfect score with one at the November KD in New Philly Ohio last year, if I recall accurately. Good luck, and enjoy the shoot :---
Quote from: St8space on June 18, 2018, 12:58:17 PM
I suspect the larger groups can be attributed to two things.
First, this is not a free floated barrel. As seen in the change in POI from no sling to slung, changes in pressure against the forend do seem to effect POI. Of course, this could also be change in head position between bench and prone, not sure.
I suspect that you're right about how the slight change in head position between the bench & prone positions are leading to the slight change in point of impact. Another possibility which came to mind is that the rifle might have been resting on two different surfaces. If your shots on the bench were resting on a mechanical rest or a bag, and your shots from prone were resting on your hand, the difference in rigidity between those two can make a slight change in how the barrel bounces & whips. One of the long-range shooters that I enjoy listening to is Ryan Cleckner. He mentions that while he likes bi-pods for many things, he prefers to shoot with the rifle resting on a backpack instead. That way, no matter if he's shooting from grass, dirt, or concrete, if he rests his rifle on his backpack, the support of the rifle is consistent. It would be fairly straightforward to test that hypothesis with your rig & see whether or not that was having an influence.
Quote
Also, these are ten shot groups. This not only introduces more heat to the barrel, but also increases the potential for shooter error, which, given the milspec trigger, is significant regardless of shot count.
Check out a channel on YouTube called, "Bloke on the Range". I think you'd enjoy it. He's an engineer with a penchant for mythbusting. He did a couple of videos about the quirks that you run into when shooting groups with low numbers of rounds, and how it can easily lead to incorrect assumptions (not that you made those mistakes, just saying that it's an interesting topic to research). Fun stuff.
Blokesplaining why 3 round groups... aren't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dhPTf18_mw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dhPTf18_mw)
Blokesplaining 3 round groups take 2, entirely without guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahp_bw5ZGjk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahp_bw5ZGjk)
3-round group vs. 9-round group? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v40Oj__Ygug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v40Oj__Ygug)
Quote from: St8space on June 17, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
The trigger is typical milspec atrocious.
PSA has a July 4th sale on their polished trigger.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-pa10-enhanced-polished-trigger.html (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-pa10-enhanced-polished-trigger.html)
My brother got a PSA lower kit with this trigger. He said it's a nice trigger and better than the trigger on his dept. issue rifle. Smoother and far less creep. I've shot his PSA and I didn't notice anything funky about the trigger.
You said you wanted rack grade however for $30, I thought you may be interested in this sale.
Quote from: St8space on June 17, 2018, 06:36:50 PM
This thing is ugly for sure. The barrel has some odd coating that appears to be cheap, shiny spray paint (who knows, maybe it is).
That sounds like a nitride (ferritic nitrocarburization) treatment to the barrel. Not really a coating, more of a case hardening process. Doesn't add anything on top of the steel, instead imbues the steel with nitrogren, hardening it quite a lot. Doesn't stand up to extreme heat like chrome lining does, but only really an issue with extended full auto, no problems with a semi auto, even if you're going fully ham on it. Much cheaper to do than chrome lining, which is why many budget manufacturers are picking it up, as it's a good value-add over unlined barrels. Also because it doesn't add any thickness to the inside of the barrel, a given nitrided barrel will be more accurate than a barrel of the same quality that has been chrome lined.
only thing to beware of is some makers will nitride *after* installing the extension and drilling the gas port, to cut corners, and this is emphatically to be avoided. The high temperatures used in treating the steel messes with the torque on the barrel extension, and can cause it to loosen slightly, and the barrel will spin out of the extension when you're installing a muzzle device or something. I've had one really cheap secondhand (i think it was a diamondback, but it was totally unmarked) nitride barrel spin out of its extension on me, and at that point it's totally ruined. Haven't heard of PSA's doing that though.
Overall it can be a good thing, just some gotchas to watch out for. It's basically the same treatment as Glock's "Tenifer" that they use on their slides and barrels.