I have scavenged all forums here on a recommendation for a 308 semi-automatic rifle for Appleseed and still don't know what to get.
My current thoughts are a Springfield M1A Scout, given it is light and accurate enough, but have heard ambivalent reports on it's reliability.
So what is your recommendation for a reliable, accurate enough, light enough 308 rifle for Appleseed?
Thank you!
I'm not trying to discourage you, but I don't see the logic in what I understand is your basic premise (a .308 rifle only for Appleseed??). What is your primary interest in firearms? Whatever that may be, get one that fills that need and then learn to use it in the Appleseed environment (rack grade rifle). If you are not interested in putting it to use in anything other than Appleseed events, there are many choices.
I hunt, so I'm partial to bolties. You can shoot the score, but it will require more time in the range learning techniques applicable to bolties, but it can be done. There are many adequate choices in the AR universe, but to be used in hunting, you'll run into magazine capacity restrictions; compliance is very easy (5 round magazines), but that would be extra kit. Everything is a compromise, and only the user can decide what best suits him.
Anyway, I'll have to admit that an AR style rifle would be more than adequate for Appleseed events. Most major manufacturers have them in their inventories. If I was in the market for one I would pick one that meets Mil Spec criteria. After market parts are easier to find. And sooner or later you'll want to change a few things.
Spingfield M1A's are great rifles, the reliability problems are usually the result of operator maintenance or lack thereof, but If that was my choice I would go with the rifle (full size). I think that way, when you outgrow Appleseed, you will still have a rifle more suitable for other disciplines (precision rifle).
aj
Quote from: Marquis de M on April 29, 2018, 05:50:34 PM
I have scavenged all forums here on a recommendation for a 308 semi-automatic rifle for Appleseed and still don't know what to get.
My current thoughts are a Springfield M1A Scout, given it is light and accurate enough, but have heard ambivalent reports on it's reliability.
So what is your recommendation for a reliable, accurate enough, light enough 308 rifle for Appleseed?
Thank you!
You will find the scout although shorter and somewhat lighter, will give you more problems. The shorter barrel length affects accuracy and the recoil is much more pronounced. The M1a as mentioned above would be my choice of a .308. The second matter is ammo cost, .308 aint cheap. It is still available.
The Palmetto State Armory 18" is on my short list.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen2-pa10-18-mid-length-308-win-ss-m-lok-rifle-with-acs-l-stock-overmolded-grip.html?trk_msg=V9MGTGAG2H7KH8FDFK5K4KD6O8&trk_contact=P8T30I2RN8CGII1DT1UI9C9C4S&trk_sid=051SD70BHEUUC51SMD38F4BIRS&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fpsa-gen2-pa10-18-mid-length-308-win-ss-m-lok-rifle-with-acs-l-stock-overmolded-grip.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5%3a00+Email
Currently on sale for 750 federal reserve notes. There is also a 20" version available.
In my dreams christensenarms 7 pound AR in .308
I have a Springfield M1A scout that my family, friends, and I have put at lease a couple thousand rounds through without one failure. Several different kinds of ammo. Mostly surplus. It has gone hundreds of rounds between cleanings.
I have not shot it at an AS because I have to use a scope now-days and I refuse to put one on it. I'm sure one of my boys will sometime.
I also have an Armalite AR10 that I really like that I'm in the process of setting up with a scope to shoot at AS and other events.
I have one of the Palmetto 308 and have been very happy with it.
After you get it go and attend one of Engineer Shootings Mill Dot lectures and find yourself a good optic.
Henry
The AR10 family is probably your best bet in the US, for better or worse.
Go to your local gun store, and take a look at the M1A and an AR10. Handle them. Sometimes you pickup a rifle, shoulder it, and realize you don't like how it feels. If you are comfortable with an AR15, then the AR10 will feel good to you.
Once you figure out what platform to go with, then worry about which specific manufacturer and model to get based on your wants/needs/budget.
Check CMP for a Naval M1 conversion.
Best .308 out there.
2cl
Partial to the FAL, myself. "The right arm of the free world" and all that stuff. A lot easier to operate left-handed than an AR, if that is a concern.
MdM: Your answer lies in this thread. Like I said in a previous post "... one that fills that need and then learn to use it in the Appleseed environment ...". Find an acquaintance(s) that own copies of the rifles suggested, invest in a box of ammo, go to the range and shoot them. The rifle you are looking for will then reveal itself.
aj
Dear all,
Thank you for your kind replies! Truly appreciate you all. I also had direct feedback about various makes and models. Hearing from some long time shootbosses, it seems that the M1A has a checkered history of reliability. Seems that a significant number of them fail very badly on the lines at Appleseed, even with parts breaking off. Also thank you for reminding me that shorter barrel with the Scout would likely kick more.
From what I've heard, the Cristensenarms models appear to be amongst the most reliable at Appleseed events.
Shame that no one I know has any of the ones that were suggested in the thread, so no possibility to try any of them out before purchase.
Again, thank you all!
If I'm able I'll bring my AR-10 to the party. you can borrow it to shoot for a spell.
"Trust but verify". Try not to be seduced by what you hear based on anecdotal evidence. Try the equipment. I'm not really sure how much the "looks cool" factor is influencing your decision, but you have an offer from stoneknives (AR10). I'm fairy sure it will meet your needs (once you decide on an AR based platform). Also, be aware that the boutique type of AR's also have higher price tags for amenities you don't really need. Spend the money in ammo.
"The indian is more important than the arrow".
aj
I'm new here having found this club while reseaching a 10/22 build. I am however a big fan of the M1A SOCOM and I have an AR10 18" by PSA. I stripped the scopes off of both when I decided that I need to get back to my old school iron sight roots. I'm still bonding with them while I dial in the sights. If I had to make a choice of only one, the M1A would be the keeper. For AS purposes I wondered if the 16" SOCOM is appropriate but when I read that 400 rounds is recommended for a 2 day match I decided that rimfire was the way to go.
For a 308 for AS , another vote for the AR systema. The Christensen at 7lbs. sounds real nice. Not going to bother to look up the price, I'll just guess somewhere around 3K. I'd like a light weight 308 AR myself, but I'd probably have to search all over hells half acre to round up the components to get it just right. To start w/ might be able to buy a barrel from Christensen, but w/ the cost of that and the other components, might as well buy the whole rifle. So maybe just find a decent fluted bbl. (I would prefer a 20" bbl.)
One thing I can't get past w/ the AR-308 is the lack of inter-changeability of major components, especially the magazine.
I've read recently the US military is considering switching to another cartridge. Perhaps something in 6.5mm, at least for DMR type stuff. Even so the 5.56 will be available for some time into the foreseeable as the AR 5'56 is in in use all over the world and that will insure high volume cartridge manufacture and surp availability.
Consider an AR5.56 for most of you needs, particularly AS, and ammo will be a bit cheaper.
Remember , YooToob can be helpful in these matters.
Back to the 308. The M1 'Tanker' is not a bad idea. It can be converted to mag feed as well. Might require some tweaking, but probably well under a 3K investment. ;)
That said, if I ever find myself in the 'last ditch', I'll prolly be bleeding all over my FAL. Should I die in bed, my nephew will have a letter of sanction allowing him to pry it from my cold dead hands.
I would echo the advice to choose your rifle first, based on what you are going to do with it, and then bring that rifle to Appleseed to gain proficiency. In fact I am going to go one better : don't just default to .308 as the 'normal' center fire caliber. Decide what you want to do with this rifle: Hunting, elk, from ridge to ridge? Whitetail, in eastern pine scrub? Shooting steel on the range at 400 yards or punching little holes in paper targets at 25 yards, and that is all you want from this rifle? That decision would drive your choice of caliber. The caliber, informed by where and how you will use it, drives the choice of rifle. Then LOTS of magazines, a BIG ol' pile of the ammo your rifle likes best, and a look at where you will be going for the next Appleseed!
If you are going with an M1A or an M1, don't get the Scout or the Tanker. Even the ones that are dependable (I have seen no dependability problems with the scout but have seen MANY with the Tankers) are much more difficult to shoot with irons. The AR10 with a collapsible stock can be good. But the M1 in .308 is good too. I would stay away from CMP Navy M1's, the good ones are long gone at CMP. The Special grades are usually good.
My choices for a .308 rifle is an M1 with a .308 commercial barrel, a Spanish Mauser FR8 (really a conversation piece but it shoots), and an Indian Enfield bolt action. None is shot as often as my AR's. In the past I have owned an all USGI but the Receiver M1a, an FN FAL and an HK91. The M1a shot well but didn't fit. The HK was not terribly accurate and destroyed brass. The FN was ok but it was also not as accurate as an M1 or an M1A.
my all-time favorite rifle, for purely unemotional reasons, would be an Armalite AR10 with a 16" HB, muzzle break (everyone hates, save the guy behind the rifle). I refer to it as my hand held, tack driving cannon. You mileage may vary.
Sadly, Armalite was sold recently and is no longer running as well as in the past so I cannot vouch for the quality of anything coming right off their current production line. AR10 is actually a copy-protected trademark, owned wholly by whomever owns Armalite now.
There are many other ".308 ARs" out there - some excellent, many not so much. The US Army went to the 5.56 round primarily to save weight. 6.5 Creedmore is amazing and works in .308 AR platforms, but as it is a non-standard round, it is spendy and somewhat harder to come by. After spending a lot of time behind a .30, shooting a 5.56 does tend to seem tame to me.
I recently decided that it was time to play around with something that could shoot beyond the effective range of my beloved AR15. Given the expense of a complete AR10 rifle, I built an upper in 6.5 grendel to sit on my existing AR15 lower. This was done for around $1000, and included quality parts like a BA Premium 18" SPR barrel, nice 12.5" m-lock handguard, and JP Enhanced bolt with JP carrier. I topped it with a Vortex PST 4-16 Gen 1 FFP I picked up used.
All I can say is this thing is money with Hornady black box 123 ammo. Clover leaf at 200 (from bench / bag) and consistent hits on 2 MOA steel from 800 and 1000 yards (prone with a bipod). For a gas gun, it doesn't get much better. Overall weight of the rifle is very manageable, even if I need to hike with it for a long way. 6.5 Grendel ammo is available in enough variety to cover hunting, practical shooting and precision needs. Loving it so far.
As part of the build, I used a Yankee Hill gas block with integrated flip-up front sight (which is why the handguard isn't 15") and put a magpul pro LR on the rear. I'm looking forward to dumping the scope and shooting a KD with irons.