Hello all,
Yesterday I went to a nearby indoor range to practice with scaled AQT targets at 25 yards for the fourth time. I shoot all stages standing and do not push myself to meet strict time standards for stages 2 & 3 (but I do maintain a decent cadence of fire). Until the weather cooperates and I join an outdoor range, this is what I have been doing to put into practice the fundamentals I'm learning, get used to my new bolt action .22, and just plain have fun shooting.
Someone once told me that his worst day at the range was better than his best day at work. Well, I really pushed that theory to its limits yesterday :-[
I shot three rounds and then a round of the "redcoat" and, although I had a few solid groups here and there, I had many more complete misses than in previous sessions and just seemed "off" in general.
I keep a photo log of all my targets and try to learn what I can as I review targets. I am able to call pretty much any shot that is somewhat wild and wasn't surprised reviewing targets at the time but I admit that I expected to do as well, if not better, than in previous outings. So... I have a question for you:
What advice do you seasoned professionals / veteran shooters have in regards to the mental game and how to make the most of a disastrous practice session?
Thanks in advance to those who would like to share,
Fynn
Fynn,
Here's my advice:
1) Don't get discouraged, a Rifleman persists
2) Make sure you sight in for the distance you are shooting (see the attached 25M Drill Target). Just because you were sighted in yesterday doesn't mean you're sighted in today.
3) Aim small, miss small. I have attached a target I recommend for indoor use. You can print it on 8½ × 11 paper.
4) Remember your breathing and holding the trigger back (follow through/ call your shot)
5) No better place to practice then at an Appleseed with the best Rifle marksmanship instructors in the business.
Just keep doing the basics. Muscle memory takes time! Make sure each step is done properly. Dry fire is also helpful.
Quote from: DrRichP on March 18, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
Fynn,
Here's my advice:
1) Don't get discouraged, a Rifleman persists
2) Make sure you sight in for the distance you are shooting (see the attached 25M Drill Target). Just because you were sighted in yesterday doesn't mean you're sighted in today.
3) Aim small, miss small. I have attached a target I recommend for indoor use. You can print it on 8½ × 11 paper.
4) Remember your breathing and holding the trigger back (follow through/ call your shot)
5) No better place to practice then at an Appleseed with the best Rifle marksmanship instructors in the business.
Yes, these are the targets I downloaded from this site and use to practice - Thanks! Appleseed event this summer in Ramseur is on my calendar :)
Give yourself some grace. Anytime you learn a new skill, your performance is going to be awkward & slow. At first, it takes a lot of effort to get a rather paltry result. Think back to when you learned how to drive, learned to play an instrument, or got a new job. It was a pain in the butt at first, but over time it got easier, to the point that now you barely think about it. The mechanical process has become automatic & easier; you just think about what you want to get done rather than all of the steps to get there.
Practice, go slow, & repeat the fundamentals over & over till they become automatic. Don't worry about speed at first; that will come later. Live fire is good, but combine that with at least equal amounts of dry fire. Practice your breathing & trigger control; get into a rhythm. Practice finding your NPOA. Work out the bugs of the various positions; find & refine what works best for your body. You can do all of this without ever setting foot on a range.
Hang in there; it really does get better. :)
Flynn-
I'll echo the previous good advice, especially focus on the basics and don't get discouraged.
There's not a lot of detail in your post for specific recommendations, but here are a few observations:
- If I understand your posts correctly, you've built some extra difficulty into your practice sessions - so don't judge your results too harshly:
Quote from: Fynn on March 18, 2018, 10:27:07 AM
What advice do you seasoned professionals / veteran shooters have in regards to the mental game and how to make the most of a disastrous practice session?
Identify a specific problem that you can overcome (e.g., trigger control), and work on that. Choose a problem and goal that is attainable, as there are a lot of pieces working together in this marksmanship system. Fixing a problem will be iterative and long-term if you really want to improve (or at least that's the case for most of us).
Quote from: Fynn on March 18, 2018, 10:27:07 AM
Yesterday I went to a nearby indoor range to practice with scaled AQT targets at 25 yards for the fourth time. I shoot all stages standing and do not push myself to meet strict time standards for stages 2 & 3 (but I do maintain a decent cadence of fire). Until the weather cooperates and I join an outdoor range, this is what I have been doing to put into practice the fundamentals I'm learning, get used to my new bolt action .22, and just plain have fun shooting.
There's a reason we start with the prone position and the loop sling: you have six steps of firing a shot (shooters, what are they??):
- Sight alignment
- Sight picture
- Respiratory pause
- Focus (eye on front sight, mind on keeping it on target)
- Squeeeeeze the trigger
- Follow through (trap the trigger back and call your shot)
You can't diagnose problems with those true fundamentals unless you have a stable platform. The prone position and loop sling give you that most stable platform! By shooting the entire AQT from a standing position, you're shooting for an unreachable goal, unless you're already an accomplished marksman.
We teach standing last as it's the least stable position, and it gets a huge target. After three years and a fair amount of practice, I can adjust my sights based on target feedback from my standing position. For the first year? NO WAY! It would've been an exercise in frustration.
This gets back to my answer to your subject: by shooting from the standing position, you're going to have more frustration and make slower progress on the fundamentals. You can recognize that and ease up on yourself, or shoot from a more stable position. I recommend the latter, if possible.
Quote from: maxwell on March 18, 2018, 12:56:16 PM
This gets back to my answer to your subject: by shooting from the standing position, you're going to have more frustration and make slower progress on the fundamentals. You can recognize that and ease up on yourself, or shoot from a more stable position. I recommend the latter, if possible.
So much great advice - Thanks for this important fundamental idea of the solid platform - I was honestly not thinking about it even though it's been staring me in the face. As soon as I join an outdoor range I will start focusing with prone/sling so I can really see where the flaws are and what to work on.
Quote from: Nashville Stage on March 18, 2018, 12:39:56 PM
Practice, go slow, & repeat the fundamentals over & over till they become automatic. Don't worry about speed at first; that will come later. Live fire is good, but combine that with at least equal amounts of dry fire. Practice your breathing & trigger control; get into a rhythm. Practice finding your NPOA. Work out the bugs of the various positions; find & refine what works best for your body. You can do all of this without ever setting foot on a range.
I will definitely carve out time to do dry fire practice. It is something I have benefited from immensely with my DA/SA semi auto pistols, thanks for the reminder how much I can get acomplished at home O0
Flynn-
Sent my earlier message off WAY to early. Here's what I intended to say:
I'll echo the previous good advice, especially focus on the basics and don't get discouraged.
There's not a lot of detail in your post for specific recommendations, but here are a few observations:
- If I understand your posts correctly, you've built some extra difficulty into your practice sessions - so don't judge your results too harshly:
First, if you're shooting at all the targets on the reduced distance AQT target from the standing position, you've set at very high bar for yourself. Shooting at the 300yd and 400yd targets from standing is very difficult for even very seasoned shooters.
Second, again, if you're using the reduced distance AQT that was included in an earlier post, and posting it at 25 yards, you're shooting at targets that are even smaller than they appear. This target is designed to be posted at 50 feet, not 75 feet.
Also, really focus on establishing a good natural point of aim - NPOA. Your body will naturally aim your rifle at a point where your muscles, tendons and ligaments are in their most relaxed, steady state. Close your eyes and relax, and your body will tell you where its NPOA is. If this NPOA is not where you want your shot to impact, you need to shift your body to bring your NPOA in alignment with your intended point of impact, otherwise you'll be muscling your rifle to aim it, and this makes it difficult to get steady and consistent shot placement. In the standing position "shifting your body" means slightly shifting your trigger side foot placement while keeping your support side foot in place.
Recheck your NPOA for each shot since manipulating the bolt handle between shots can easily undo the NPOA you established for the previous shot.
Keep practicing, don't get discouraged, and good luck.
If you find yourself shooting worse one day than you did before, think about 2 things. Rifleman's Dance and Rifleman's Bubble. Always take the yellow diagnostic sheet with you, because you never know when you may start picking up a bad habit, which that sheet will help you work through and overcome. When you learn to read your target, match the patterns to common shooting errors, then go back and shoot another course of fire, hopefully correcting your mistakes, that's called the Rifleman's Dance. But it can go beyond the sheet when you are comparing multiple sessions at the range. Try and think what you did different, beyond your basic techniques. One day you might have skipped lunch or were feeling a bit dehydrated, so your hands weren't as steady. Maybe one day you wore different footwear that affected your stable position. Eyewear can play a big part too if you wear glasses. Don't forget to inspect your equipment and make sure take down or mounting screws haven't loosened up, causing poor accuracy from your rifle. Lots of things can change from one day to the next. Take a mental note of anything at all that might have been different.
Then there's the Rifleman's Bubble. Beginners often suffer from "too much mind," which is basically just overthinking everything. It's ok to carefully think about your position as you get into it, along with the 6 steps of firing the shot, but that moment you squeeze the trigger, it's critical that you allow everything beyond that trigger squeeze to go out of your mind. Focus. Squeeze. Follow Through. Your ability to concentrate can certainly change from one day to the next, depending on how our day or week is going. Mentally "take out the trash" before your next session. Empty your mind of everything else that's not going to help you take that next shot. I've seen people suddenly start shooting 100 percent better, just because they were able to settle their minds. 90 percent of marksmanship boils down to what's happening in your mind and your trigger finger, in my opinion, even if you aren't doing everything else right. Getting frustrated can snowball and cause you to shoot worse and worse. When that happens, take a break, even if it's just a few moments to close your eyes, take deep breaths, settle your mind and focus. We can teach you all the fundamentals at Appleseed, but what's going on in your head is yours to master.
My 2 cents worth
Stable platform w sling useage...npoa...six steps are the essentials
It took me many appleseeds and years to shoot rifleman though I already thought I had these down from my military experience!
What I needed to relearn to shoot rifleman.
1-relaxing paramount (not synonymous with being comfortable!)....I was old, inflexible, and hard headed and I was going to muscle my way to to a rifleman score....cannot be done...build a stable platform...relax into he sling...practice adjusting your position to find npoa...then fire using 6 steps. If you are gripping the forearm of your stock with your support hand this should be a clue to you that you are not relaxed!
2-consistent cheek weld is critical. I found that even with sound practice of other things that I had forgotten a consistent cheek weld. If your cheek is not maintained in the same spot for every shot your sight picture though appearing good and consistent will not be.
Be patient
Hi Fynn,
You have received great advise above.
The only shot that matters is the one you are taking now. The last one is gone and the next one isn't here yet.
Practicing the fundamentals is very difficult from off hand. Many call it awful hand.
Practice getting into prone and slung up and dry firing at home. That will help you at Appleseed as you will be able to get into position faster and make the best use of your prep time.
Keep at it,
Chuck
Fynn,
Thank you for posting. What you experienced during your practice session is something that most Shooters experience. We all have a bad day from time to time. The real question is how do we move forward from that bad day.
Olympic shooter Lanny Bassham wrote a book called Winning in Mind. In it, he details the mental management that we need to have to become truly consistent and repeatable and achieve a level of performance that we might not think possible today. If that sentence sounds strange, it should. Because Lanny explains in his book that it is our mental process that holds us back.
Every time we take a shot, we have a mental imprint of that shot. If it's a good shot, we should review it to determine the good things that made it a good shot. Every time we review that shot, we create another mental imprint of it. It reinforces good performance in pour minds. If we have a bad shot, Lanny advises us not to dwell upon it. The more we dwell upon times where we did not perform to our expectations or desires, we reinforce that bad performance mentally.
So, the best advice I can give to you is if you're having a bad practice session, STOP. Do not continue to reinforce bad performance. do not dwell on a bad shot or a bad practice session. All you do is reinforce that over and over in your mind. The more you reinforce it, the more you are likely to only achieve that level of performance.
Shooting is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head. If you decided and are mentally convinced that you are currently a 180 shooter, that's what you will be. Repeat to yourself every time you pick up the rifle that you are a 250 shooter, and watch your performance goes up as your mind accepts that as The New Normal.
You can have all the skill in the world, but if your mind is not there you'll never perform to that level. We see the same things in sports like Golf and baseball.
Hope this helps. Drop me a note if I can be of service.
v/r
MO
Quote from: drifter52 on March 18, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Second, again, if you're using the reduced distance AQT that was included in an earlier post, and posting it at 25 yards, you're shooting at targets that are even smaller than they appear. This target is designed to be posted at 50 feet, not 75 feet.
Thanks very much for your advice and encouragement. The target I am using says "post at 25 yrds" and yes, the experience of shooting at the 300-400 targets offhand is a bit surreal to say the least :P
I appreciate what you say about NPOA as well, I am working at it and believe that I am at least "in the ballpark" when a step to the line and just need minor adjustments.
So much fun, so much respect for those who make it look easy :bow:
Quote from: Three'oEight on March 18, 2018, 02:12:39 PM
Then there's the Rifleman's Bubble. Beginners often suffer from "too much mind," which is basically just overthinking everything. It's ok to carefully think about your position as you get into it, along with the 6 steps of firing the shot, but that moment you squeeze the trigger, it's critical that you allow everything beyond that trigger squeeze to go out of your mind. Focus. Squeeze. Follow Through. Your ability to concentrate can certainly change from one day to the next, depending on how our day or week is going. Mentally "take out the trash" before your next session. Empty your mind of everything else that's not going to help you take that next shot. I've seen people suddenly start shooting 100 percent better, just because they were able to settle their minds. 90 percent of marksmanship boils down to what's happening in your mind and your trigger finger, in my opinion, even if you aren't doing everything else right. Getting frustrated can snowball and cause you to shoot worse and worse. When that happens, take a break, even if it's just a few moments to close your eyes, take deep breaths, settle your mind and focus. We can teach you all the fundamentals at Appleseed, but what's going on in your head is yours to master.
Yes! The mental game - thank you for addressing this sir O0 BTW, I did have one extra cup of coffee earlier that morning ;D
Quote from: Maximum Ordinate on March 18, 2018, 03:19:32 PM
Thank you for posting. What you experienced during your practice session is something that most Shooters experience. We all have a bad day from time to time. The real question is how do we move forward from that bad day.
Olympic shooter Lanny Bassham wrote a book called Winning in Mind. In it, he details the mental management that we need to have to become truly consistent and repeatable and achieve a level of performance that we might not think possible today. If that sentence sounds strange, it should. Because Lanny explains in his book that it is our mental process that holds us back.
Every time we take a shot, we have a mental imprint of that shot. If it's a good shot, we should review it to determine the good things that made it a good shot. Every time we review that shot, we create another mental imprint of it. It reinforces good performance in pour minds. If we have a bad shot, Lanny advises us not to dwell upon it. The more we dwell upon times where we did not perform to our expectations or desires, we reinforce that bad performance mentally.
So, the best advice I can give to you is if you're having a bad practice session, STOP. Do not continue to reinforce bad performance. do not dwell on a bad shot or a bad practice session. All you do is reinforce that over and over in your mind. The more you reinforce it, the more you are likely to only achieve that level of performance.
Shooting is 90% mental and the other 10% is in your head. If you decided and are mentally convinced that you are currently a 180 shooter, that's what you will be. Repeat to yourself every time you pick up the rifle that you are a 250 shooter, and watch your performance goes up as your mind accepts that as The New Normal.
You can have all the skill in the world, but if your mind is not there you'll never perform to that level. We see the same things in sports like Golf and baseball.
Power of positive thinking - I love it! Great response, I very much appreciate it sir :)
All great advice. One other thing that you might want to consider: I don't know what kind of ranges you have in your area, but our club has outdoor rifle, up to 300 yards, and outdoor pistol. There is also an indoor pistol that is open 24-7. It's fairly short, probably 50 feet, but since it is always open, there often is nobody around. During those times, you can move the benches/tables out of the way and shoot prone. You again need the scaled-down targets, but it could be great for working on fundamentals when it's too cold to work outside, as it's also heated.
Just a thought. Everything, working together, will move you down the trail in the right direction. Keep at it. The good stuff doesn't always come easy.
Flynn, you have heard much good advice. Let me offer perspective instead. We teach shooting to a "4 MOA" standard. That standard applies to prone using a sling, slow fire. The 4 inch group on the standing stage of an AQT at 25 meters is perfectly acceptable and all 4s and 5s is a 16 MOA group. Shooting standing, do not beat yourself up for anything that resembles this. This is exactly why the standing target is 4 times the size of the slow fire prone. Additionally check to be sure your sights are tightened down. Something loose can cause a sudden and seemingly inexplicable change in your accuracy.
Quote from: Fynn on March 18, 2018, 05:09:21 PM
Power of positive thinking - I love it! Great response, I very much appreciate it sir :)
It's not just positive thinking. It's a self-reinforcing mental process that builds upon what you're doing right in your marksmanship.
It doesn't replace fundamentals. It doesn't fix bad gear or substitute for dryfire practice. It doesn't absolve you of learning to call each and every shot. But it does help you build a disciplined mindset to achieve consistency.
Whether you think you can or think you can't... either way, you are correct. :)
v/r
MO
LOL about the extra cup of coffee. Any time I've had a competition in the morning, I always shot worse if I had even one cup of coffee.
Pictures of the targets may be useful to others to help diagnose the problem, as well as knowing what equipment you are using. Scoped or open sights?
Rusty beat me hard on this, dang.
Shooting is a mental management game at all levels. Good thing to do is read up on sources that emphasize that. To get it out of the way: a lot of people get utility out of general Buddhist practice, and zen specifically. There are plenty of fellow travellers, too. Brian Enos, Shunryu Suzuki, Takuan Soho, Musashi, the list is LONG. Some of the more accessible sutras can be useful too. Buddha did mental management before it was cool.
Gotta get back to the office, may check back in later.
Quote from: LogCabinShooter on March 20, 2018, 01:17:39 PM
Pictures of the targets may be useful to others to help diagnose the problem, as well as knowing what equipment you are using. Scoped or open sights?
Hi, Not really a "diagnose my problem" thread (far too many probably lol) but rather just a general discussion of the mental aspects of shooting and dealing with success and failures along the way :).
Thank you to all who have replied with advice and encouragement. I had a much better day at the range today. Kept it simple, relaxed, concentrating on fundamentals and just went with the flow. Lots of fun and feel like progress was definitely made, especially with regards to sight picture/hold of my rifle and breathing.
Guess what? I discovered that NPOA really IS king :cool2: I appreciate each and every one of you who teach and mentor people in this challenging and rewarding adventure O0
@DrRichP: I tried that 25m drill target that you suggested but only once (thought I better end on a good one)
(https://i.imgur.com/BwhHwAg.jpg)
Fynn, my friend, now THAT'S a target you can build on! Well done, brother. :partytime:
Following the advice of those who replied to my original post, I am getting Stage One targets like this pretty consistently (today 50x3, 47).
Thanks to the rockin' people on this forum - Just had to share :)
(https://i.imgur.com/xV5guK1.jpg)
VERY nice!
Great job Fynn!
See you in Ramseur soon!
O0