Just saw this on another board. http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm (http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm)
Company even says "Perfect for building an "Appleseed" Liberty Training Rifle". How about that? I think I will have to look into this for an LTR build. Do we know these people, or have a member in their company? Can anybody say group buy?
(http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-22web3.JPG)
These are full receivers and require a FFL transfer >:D
Not an inexpensive LOANER rifle :(
I think the LTR should be renamed Loaner Training Rifle ;)
By the time your done with barrel and furniture your in it for $600.00 + pretty fast
I know because I have a "tarted up" Ruger that cost me plenty (I named her Britney) <:)
And I can quit any time... really I can stop at will ... no really %)
You could have two Ruger loaners or three Marlins
With Tech sights mags and slings and a bore snake
It is more fun to watch different folks work a loaner and watch the lights come on :) :) ;) 8)
That looks suh-weeeet!
Buzzworth hit the nail on the head.
If you're going to spend that kind of loot to trick-out an LTR, might as well buy two or three other "stock" LTRs.
J_T is right too.... that thing looks Suh-WEEET! If Appleseed has taught me anything though, it's that no matter how the rifle looks, no matter how tricked-out it is, no matter how suh-weet it looks.... if the operator can't shoot, it doesn't matter how fancy the hardware is.
Kudos to the guys at NODAKSPUD for mentioning Appleseed. Bigiceman, since you found 'em, you know the drill, it's your bag now, baby, yeah! You're no stranger to the group buy thing so hook it up!
The price seems pretty good to me even with shipping and transfer fee. I wish I hadn't seen it.
Now, if I were building a 10/22 for myself, and money wasn't an object, maybe even if I was going to use it in competition, that wouldn't be bad.
But, for $160 + shipping, for a receiver, when I can get a complete 10/22 carbine from Dick's or Wal-mart, why should I?
Remember, I'm the guy with 6 10/22's. 1 22" barrel rifle, 1 International (both scoped) and 4 carbines with Tech Sights. Why 6? One for me, one for Blueskys and 4 loaners. All 6 get loaned.
And, yes, it's certainly defeats the purpose of the LTR, though it might be fun.
You know, Junior Birdman and I were talking about an hour ago, and one of the subjects was about why some folks think a 1 MOA rifle will help them shoot easier than a 3-4 MOA rifle.
The bottom line is, you can't buy skill through technology.
It takes work and practice, after some education in the basics.
I don't want to speak for Nickle, but after reading his post, 2 words came to mind.....
PERSISTENCE AND PERSEVERANCE
Looks like the receiver I'll use when I build my " RIFLEMAN'S RIFLE." I like building,modifying stuff.
Don't want it to drive tacks. It just looks cool. I guess I could just replace my existing receiver with it. To build one from this would increase the price a lot. An LTR with a Tapco stock so that it has an adjustable length of pull would cost:
Cheapo 10/22 from Cabelas on sale for 179.99
Tech-Sights 69.99
Tapco Stock 69.38
Total without shipping or taxes 319.36
Nodak Spud receiver 150.00
Sight parts (front assembly and post) 33.95
Tapco Stock 69.38
trigger group(acurized cant find other)199.00
barrel (used from gun broker) 75.00
Magazine/misc screws and parts 50.00
bolt group (accurized cant find other) 120.00
Total without shipping or taxes 697.33
So yes, it more than double the price of making an LTR with a stock 10/22. If you got the barrel, trigger and bolt from some 10/22 enthusiast who had upgraded theirs it would be cheaper, but still not like a standard. So much for that idea.
One day I'm going to take a few pictures and post them of my LTR and let folks see what kind of dings, scratches, wear and such that they get on the line at an Appleseed.
That might dissuade most from putting too much money into an LTR. :o
I love that reciever, but it would sure hurt to find that big 'ol scratch on the side after the first Appleseed! :'(
I built it for an LTR, and that sort of thing just comes with the title. It's expected so when it happens, I just shrug it off and remember that it is a tool used to forge Riflemen, and good tools get worn.
The first time a newbie shoots a Rifleman score with your LTR and thanks you with a handshake and a weeks worth of grin you'll realize it's all worth it in the end! JB
JB,
Yes - the first time I brung my shiny new SS LTR out and let a nice lady use it - I could see she was raking the barrel all along the edge of the concrete firing line. I was just about to point it out when I realized why I bought it in the first place. I never said a word and the rifle bares the scars of its duty to Liberty to this day.
My LTRs are "working rifles" - not show pieces.
I gotta say though - these new receivers are "dead sexy" and it is certainly great to see the recognition from NodakSpud!
PH
There are three Loaner Training rifles in my safe, I'm in if a group buy goes through.
How is this for a next step? I sent the following e-mail to the company that makes these. Now to see what comes of it.
I am a member of the Revolutionary War Veterans Association, we do the Appleseed Project and Apppleseed Shoots. I just noticed your reference to our use of the Ruger 10/22 as an Appleseed Liberty Training Rifle. Thank you for that reference. I don't know if you or one of your staff are members of our association, but we appreciate the mention.
What I would like to do with you is to explore the possibility of taking this a step further. That step further could represent a small step, like allowing us to market your receivers for a small part of the price as a marketing partner, or making a receiver with our logo stamped/etched into it. That step could also be a larger step like working with us to provide complete Liberty Training Rifles. That step would use your wholesale buying power and our demand to provide us with a recognizable product for both parties at an acceptable price/profit.
I would love to discuss this with you further if there is any interest on your company's part.
Quote from: PHenry on January 09, 2009, 07:16:05 PM
My LTRs are "working rifles" - not show pieces.
Keep that in mind folks. It's one thing to buy your personal LibertyTR, the rifle you use for training to simulate using your MBR, and it should be "close" to your MBR in fit and feel, performance, etc.
But it's quite another to be buying LoanerTRs, the ones you pass out for use at Appleseed events. Loaner Training Rifles are equipment. Period. They're not your grand-daddy's shotgun that can't take being dropped or a little dent or ding here and there. They are pieces of wood and steel (OK, plastic and aluminum) used to train people and as said above, they don't need to be high-dollar items to accomplish the mission.
Quote from: bigiceman on January 09, 2009, 09:07:06 PM
How is this for a next step? I sent the following e-mail ........................ I would love to discuss this with you further if there is any interest on your company's part.
Excellent, bigiceman! Great job, keep us posted on the response. It would be really cool if we could get a tricked-out LTR with the AS logo (or coin!) on the side of the receiver. Man, at the rate we're going, we're going to have several LTR options in the near future. Complete LTR packages delivered to your FFL for great prices! Who knows, maybe the LTR will even make it on the cover of Guns-&-Ammo or the American Rifleman or our favorite little gun mag, The Shotgun News.
Cheapo 10/22 from Cabelas on sale for 179.99
Tech-Sights 69.99
Tapco Stock 69.38
Total without shipping or taxes 319.36
Cheapo 10/22 from Cabelas on sale for 179.99
Nodak Spud receiver 150.00
Tapco Stock 69.38
Front Sight 30.00
Rear Sight Hardware 27.95
Total without shipping or taxes 457.32
Cheapo 10/22 Used 90.00
Nodak Spud receiver 150.00
Tapco Stock 69.38
Front Sight 30.00
Rear Sight Hardware 27.95
Total without shipping or taxes 367.33
It is NOT twice the price. It is less than $150 more the price at the MOST!! (the cost of the NODAK receiver) If you find a used 10/22, compared to the price of starting with a new donor rifle, you will only be paying 40-80 more!!
Nice comparison fepowered. I would have liked to use used prices, but then I thought I would have to use used prices for the other option too. If you do that it shaves another $80-90 off the other LTR.
QuoteWho knows, maybe the LTR will even make it on the cover of Guns-&-Ammo or the American Rifleman or our favorite little gun mag, The Shotgun News.
Slim, now that, that, would be an accomplishment. The Liberty Training Rifle on the cover of Guns & Ammor or American Rifleman. Big old Appleseed Project sticker down the side. Hot diggety that would be sweet!
Here's a run down of all new parts.
Considering the cheapest 10/22 I've seen in these parts lately is 189(on sale). (I rarely even run across used) but then I've never had much luck at finding them steals. Considering I paid 240(22in. wally spcl.) + 69.99(Techsights) + 10(1.25 sling attch.)= 320 (It hurts me to look at these #'s :'()
NoDak Spud reciever 150.00
Tapco stock 69.99
Barrel, blue (brownells) 44.28
Bolt assbly. (brownells) 29.14
Trigger grd. assbly. (brownells) 48.29
Front sight parts 33.95
Rear sight hardware 27.95
Mag./misc. pins&screws 50.00
Sub total 403.60
If you don't need that tapco stock, it becomes more reasonable.(not as much as the absolute basic, though)
Sub in some used parts and I'm sure this may be reasonable. (even moving towards cheaper, depending on what you can scrounge) I suspect some of you may be able to find people willing to give parts away.(i.e. factory barrels, triggers, etc.)
Just some info. for you to ponder. I'm pretty cheap so I've been thinking about taking a dremmel to a block of 7076 aluminium and working out a reciever of my own.
Just returned from my local gun show. Almost too excited to type. **) On the table was a 10/22 replacement receiver with a full rail on top. Hole in the rear of the receiver to allow cleaning from the breach. No built in sight like the 1 above. My dealer cost is $110.00. Spoke to the guy about Appleseed. He said he could roll mark / engrave "Project Appleseed" or some other Appleseed-ish wording on the receiver if I put in an order for 7 or so. FOR FREE !!!
This receiver would require using an AR ish back up sight. I'm not sure about the front. I'll have to talk to Tech and see if they would sell only the front post set up.
As was stated earlier, a group buy would require you to have a dealer in your state to handle the transfer as this is a complete receiver. However, if your state touches Illinois, I will confirm it, but I believe I could legally do the transfer.
Boy oh boy oh boy!!! Can't wait for Mon to start doing some research :~
They do make backup sights for the flat top AR rifles that will mount on full length rails. Pricey but they make them. Tech sells all kinds of their parts seperate as needed, you can get a front sight set up no problem. We need to see his work on the engraving, could be cool.
Copy that on the back up sights. I know everybody and their brother make 'em. Nice thing is, if you have an A3 AR, if push came to shove, you could strip the back ups off your LTR and your MBR is back up and running.
I'll contact him on Mon and ask if he can make a proto type for me. Anybody have any thoughts on what we would want etched on it???
Project Appleseed or April 19, 1775 or RWVA or ?????
Look at your LTR, there's not alot of receiver showing above the stock so it would have to be concise.
EEL
RWVA APRIL 19, 1775
As big as they can make it.
Bump
That is a very cool looking receiver.
I took this back to my friends at NearDeathExperiments because it was too good not to share, and of course one of them (thanks Fenix) came up with another option that takes the idea one step further.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/RGR800-1.html
(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/RGR-800.jpg)
(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/RGR-800_A.jpg)
About as close as you can get without putting a 22 mod in an AR-15
Talk about six degrees of separation, here they are between stock 10-22 and AR-15
Stock 10-22
Appleseed 10-22 LTR
NDS-22
RGR800
AR with a 22 mod
AR-15
Something for everybody!
Quote from: Nickle on January 09, 2009, 02:28:25 PM
You know, Junior Birdman and I were talking about an hour ago, and one of the subjects was about why some folks think a 1 MOA rifle will help them shoot easier than a 3-4 MOA rifle.
The bottom line is, you can't buy skill through technology.
It takes work and practice, after some education in the basics.
People like nice guns, thats all it boils down to. If the gun itself gets them worked up and wanting to go to the range then I'm all for it.
FWIW I've shot JBs Fulton Armory M1a (think it's a peerless) so y'all cant bullSh*t me and say you havent fallen victum to gun lust. Hell I said it before and I'll say it now, if I ever shoot that M1a again I'll end up with one, and I REALLy can't afford that ;)
Quote from: BaldDragn on January 28, 2009, 01:24:35 AM
I took this back to my friends at NearDeathExperiments because it was too good not to share, and of course one of them (thanks Fenix) came up with another option that takes the idea one step further.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/RGR800-1.html
(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/RGR-800.jpg)
(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/RGR-800_A.jpg)
About as close as you can get without putting a 22 mod in an AR-15
Talk about six degrees of separation, here they are between stock 10-22 and AR-15
Stock 10-22
Appleseed 10-22 LTR
NDS-22
RGR800
AR with a 22 mod
AR-15
Something for everybody!
The same money will get you a dedicated 22 upper for an AR I would imagine.
We're all different and we all like, or are drawn to, different rifles.
However, if the purpose of the .22 is to stand in for the centerfire rifle as a cheap/affordable trainer then it needs to be as similar as possible to the main rifle.
The dedicated AR uppers and the .22 conversion kits do a pretty good job of that.
While I like my 10/22 and it's similar to the M1/M1A the safety and loading falls short of "feeling" or working like the big rifles.
The new stuff is fun, just think about why you want it and whether or not it fits the needs.
And have fun learning to shoot better and teach others to shoot better.
Bigiceman, was there a response from NDS?