I have a buddy who's a big muzzle loader guy and he just made the jump to an AR after some "AS-inspired" prodding from yours truly.
Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"
I don't know. I've never known and I don't think I've ever even considered it. But, from this guy, it makes perfect sense and was a good question.
Anyone know the answer?
(Just for the record, he bought a bunch of the newer 55gr. Wolf Military Classic. Anyone know the weight of that one? How about the 193,855,etc.?)
Quote from: slim on December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM
Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"
The answer is there is no answer. There is a starting load and a max load for each bullet/brass/powder/primer/rifle combination. Each rifle is different and a safe load in one may be over pressure in another.
For example (I assume no liability. Use this information at your own risk.) with a 55 grain bullet using Reloader 15 the range could be from 25 - 28 grains.
The trick is to start low and work your way up until you find the "sweet spot" that your rifle likes with that particular combination. For 5.56 I usually increase my charges in .2 grain increments while working up towards the max load while looking for accuracy and watching for pressure signs (flattened primer, hard extraction, etc.). Don't just keep adding powder until you pierce a primer or worse.
If you don't find an accurate load with a particular combination, you need to change something in the equation and start over.
Bottom line - get some load data from several reputable sources, do some research, start low, and work your way up slowly.
Go to any of the powder websites and look up the info there. Every one has their favorite brand, so look at a few and reap all the free info that you can. With the AR platform that I shoot, it likes the loads up about 10% above the minimum or starting load. Any time you change one component
(primer, projectile, powder) start from the lower charges and slowly work up.
Only very rarely is the "max" load the most accurate load. Usually the most accurate load is a couple hundred feet per second below the fastest load.
Make sure your muzzleloading friend is not going to try to use black powder or Pyrodex or other black powder substitute for loading in his AR. It is very corrosive and the burn rate is way too fast. I have had good luck with Accurate arms 2230 and Herculese H322. I have heard good things about Varget but have not tried any yet. I would go with the heavier bullets for accuracy because the AR usually has tight twist rifling ( 1 in 7 inch). Follow the advice above in working up the load to find the sweet spot. Tommy
If your friend is curious as to how much powder he might find in a factory cartridge,,,ocourse it would vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, bullet etc.,,,but regards the common bullet weight of 55grn. to 62 grn. if you pulled a bullet or bullets, and weighed out the charges,,,I would venture to guess you would find an average of 25-27 grns. of an "appropriate" powder.
The arsenals have little interest in MOA regards service ammunition. Safe, reliable, consistent function to produce MinuteOfOpponent from 0-600m is more like it.
I use 24.5 grns of Benchmark under a 60 V-max bullet for coyote hunting. I too have heard good things about the Varget powder but have yet to try any.
The powder used in the govt issue stuff is available from several different people who pull down unissued ammo to sell the individual componets. Some deals can be had buying these consumables too.
Bullet weights are the same for each group of bullet weights. Powders
weights will vary from each manufacturer or in the case of reloading, the
type, and brand of the powder used. Suggest you start with a loading
manual, and treat it like a Bible :)
Quote from: slim on December 31, 2008, 05:58:57 AM
I have a buddy who's a big muzzle loader guy and he just made the jump to an AR after some "AS-inspired" prodding from yours truly.
Anyway, I was going on and on about the 55gr. vs. 62gr. and why he should use one or the other and he asked, "so how much powder is in the case? You're talking about the bullet weight. What's the powder weigh?"
I don't know. I've never known and I don't think I've ever even considered it. But, from this guy, it makes perfect sense and was a good question.
Anyone know the answer?
(Just for the record, he bought a bunch of the newer 55gr. Wolf Military Classic. Anyone know the weight of that one? How about the 193,855,etc.?)
On 62 grain FMJ M855 bullets, I use 23.0 grains of IMR 4895.
Thanks for all the replies, guys.
I've been having the "Your AR will be a lot more effective than your muzzle loader out past, oh, say, 500 yds." conversation lately. He's still holding that muzzle loader pretty tightly, but the AR is getting more comfortable each day.
.
Here's a link to where the US Mil Spec information is:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=267.0
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Quote from: asminuteman on April 25, 2009, 09:13:25 PM
Nickle, Thanks !always wanted to compare tables ken
(edit) by the way noting "old" post 07.....308? info....got 06 up the whazoooo
Remember, that's the US Army that made that pub that came from.
7.62 means .308, .30 Cal is .30-06.
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slim,
You might be surprised at what an old smoke pole can do. ;D
I'm put round balls through stuff that 5.56 just bounced off.
Doug