Well,
I opted to build a "Gucci" rifle for CMP Rimfire Sporter. I've alluded to this in another post (trigger weights) but here is where I am at so far.
YES a stock 10/22 carbine will work. NO NEED to build a Gucci rifle....but it is what I have done.
I had a heavy match grade Volquartsen Barrel, and a Boyds thumbhole laminate stock. Rifle would not make the 7.5 pound requirement for total weight of the rifle, to include sling swivels and an empty magazine. I was well over 8 lbs.
Also my triggers would not make the 3.0lb requirement. The interesting thing about the triggers **CAUTION to anyone else that competes in these matches** is that my digital Lyman trigger scale has them coming in at 3.4 lbs. My NRA official weight set has them breaking at the 3.0 lb mark. I caution the reader because if your trigger is "Close", if you have not verified it with an NRA weight set, you may be looking at a DQ..., nuff on that.
Went with a KIDD single stage trigger set to break at 3.25 lbs.
Here is the build list:
Starting from 7.5 lbs
Boyds Thumbhole laminate stock - 2.5 lbs
Kidd single stage trigger - 8 ounces
Scope (Nikon Rimfire Prostaff 3x9): - 13.1 ounces
16.5" Volquartsen THM tension lightweight barrel: - 1 lb 4 ounces
Volquartsen Lightweight Alloy 10/22 receiver: - 10 ounces
Bolt: (stock/but modified for headspace/pinned firing pin, radiused edges for easier removal/install: - 6.4 ounces
Charging handle/Op Rod (Volquartsen aftermarket) - 1.6 ounces
Volquartsen Barrel Mounted scope mount: 1.6 ounces
The above leaves me with .85 pounds remaining for:
Unknown weights:
Sling Swivel
Empty Magazine
Scope Rings
I'm confident I will make the weight requirement now. Will know for sure this weekend after I pick up receiver from the FFL.
This is gonna be a TACK driver. Legal for CMP Sporter in the "T" class or the "TR" class (if match director decides to create that optional class) with the scope taped at 6x or less per CMP games rules under section 8.0.
I'll also likely use it for Precision Rifle Series Tactical Rimfire..., but will need to get me a scope that is Front Focal Plane with MOA or MIL reticle for Unknown Distance Ranging. PRS Tactical rimfire is an up and coming discipline. 200 yards (ish) UKD shooting with a rimfire! Sweet! Cheaper as well.
R/
Chris
Looking forward to some pictures >:D
Quote from: navybowhunter on March 09, 2017, 01:49:09 PM
I opted to build a "Gucci" rifle
Cue the sound of jaws dropping in shock all across the country. ;D
Sorry to rain on your Gucci...thumbhole stocks are not permitted in Rimfire Sporter.
Miki,
Correct! I've been busy with 2 builds and got it confused.
Weight of the MAGPUL X-22 stock is same as the Boyds laminate.
But indeed, thumbhole stocks are not permitted.
The X22 will work.
I just happened to receive one of them yesterday.
I still am naive as to how to post pics. I'll see if a friend can upload when I get it built tomorrow.
R/
Chris
I'm gonna email CMP for clarification on the thumbhole, as this is not a "Standard" rifle.
CUT/PASTE from rulebook:
8.2.2 General Rifle Configuration, Standard and Tactical Rifles
a) Standard Rimfire Sporter Rifles must be sporter-type rifles of conventional appearance. Rifles must have a standard sporter-type stocks constructed of wood or synthetic material. The stock may have a Monte Carlo cheek piece, but may not have an orthopedic or asymmetrically shaped pistol grip. Adjustable cheek pads are not permitted. The stock may have a fixed sling swivel on the fore-end. Thumbhole stocks, stock adjustments of any type (adjustable butt plates, adjustable cheek pieces, etc.) and rails or adjustable sling swivels are not permitted.
b) Tactical Rimfire Rifles may be used in Rimfire Sporter matches, either in a separate Tactical Class or the match sponsor may include them in the T-Class. Legal Tactical Rimfire rifles must comply with the requirements for overall weight and trigger pull and have a configuration that is similar to common AR and modern military rifles. Tactical Rimfire rifles may have either aperture or optical sights (no higher than 6X). If the length of pull on the butt-stock is adjustable, the length adjustment must remain the same for all three positions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One could argue that a thumbhole stock could fall into the "Tactical" rifle category.
Regardless, that X22 stock is a good option, and stock swapping is easily accomplished.
R/
Chris
CMP clarified....Thumbhole stocks are indeed a NO-GO. SO....Magpul X22 it is.
I'll swap the barreled action to the Boyds Thumbhole stock for PRS Rimfire.
R/
Chris
This is most of the stuff. Awaiting on the receiver to be delivered to my FFL here in an hour or so.
Task Complete!
Should be one hell of a shooter! Weighed and it came in at 6.6 lbs on my Lyman trigger scale. Should be way good, only thing not on rifle when weighing was sling swivel. Still confused on the rules for that. More to follow.....
KIDD trigger is freaking PHENOMENAL! RESET is immediate and crisp! 3.25 lbs! Holds 3.0 on my NRA Weight set.
Pics!
Que Justin Timberlake "Bringin Sexy Back" as you view these! LOL
Looks like a nice rifle, for sure. Did you figure out if the Kidd springs would have given a correct weight with the stock Ruger trigger?
This thread caused me to look up the CMP Rimfire Sporter rules, and that sounds like a fun game. Looks like the cost would be lower than highpower, and it would be a good marksmanship followon for Appleseed. It's just as well that the nearest smallbore league is a couple hours away, or I might get sucked in to something else.
Thanks Maxwell,
I never did try the aftermarket KIDD springs. I have em, at my leisure I will tinker with the spare trigger group I have to see if it will come in.
On that spare rifle Ruger sent me, my next step is to ship the trigger and bolt assembly to Andy Trivette for the "Worx"! Great pricing, and he has done a few for me in the past. I'll specify I want the trigger to break at 3.25 lbs as well. Here is a link to what he does if interested: *compared to cost of a KIDD or VQ bolt, it is the cheaper way to go*:
http://www.trivettesgunsmithing.com/10.html
CMP Rimfire sporter is geared towards a low pressure/low cost/ minimal equipment required match. No shooting coats allowed, etc.
The standard class is geared towards a rack grade off the shelf rimfire. Of course, T class is where my rifle will be classified. SO....as cheap as say $225, or as pricey as one desires.
It is becoming a very popular match. Logistically its a very easy match. Targets are cheaper, don't need a FD range, etc etc.
Maybe I'll see you at a match. If my leg continues to heal well, I will shoot my first sporter match at CMP Eastern Games in late April. My only concern now is rapid seated transition, but ...I'm starting to feel up to it.
R/
Chris
My current "Harem" of 10/22's.
I have a trigger group and Boyds thumbhole laminate stock that needs a receiver and barrel.
Maybe build a dedicated PRS Rimfire out of that trigger and stock.
Last years match at Nationals. You will see many different configurations of rifles here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VowLxMimFY
SWEET! I called CMP because of "MIKI"'s comment above, and was told over the phone Thumbhole stocks were a no-go.
BUT....
I now have an email from the CMP that states they are in FACT allowable!
Sometimes asking for clarification pays off!
Thanks MIKI for bringing it up.
Back to GUCCI!
R/
Chris
I posted my "JOY" about thumbhole stocks, and one match director friend of mine, asked for it in writing. No Problem, I sent. May as well cut/paste it in here as well:
What I sent:
CMP,
I have a question regarding Rimfire Sporter rifle requirements.
In the book, Rule 8.0 specifically 8.2.2 (a)
States that for "Standard" rifmire sporter rifles cannot have a thumbhole stock.
What about in the T class?
Thanks,
Chris
What I RECEIVED:
Chris,
The thumbhole stock would be put in the TR class, if you do not have a tactical class you would follow rule 8.2.2 (b) on page 63 of the rules found at http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/CMPGamesRules.pdf?ver=03022017.
Tactical Rimfire Rifles may be used in Rimfire Sporter matches, either in
a separate Tactical Class or the match sponsor may include them in the
T-Class. Legal Tactical Rimfire rifles must comply with the requirements
for overall weight and trigger pull and have a configuration that is similar
to common AR and modern military rifles. Tactical Rimfire rifles may
have either aperture or optical sights (no higher than 6X). If the length of
pull on the butt-stock is adjustable, the length adjustment must remain thesame for all three positions
.
Thanks,
Michelle Woods
Thanks for your continued support of the CMP.
Customer Service/Program Support
mwoods@thecmp.org
419 635-2141 ext.722
Nice!!
The boot is the sexy part. **)
How's the leg doing?
Those dogs look vicious. (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
Viscious Killers Rusty! LOL
Don,
The boot ain't sexy at all. It is similar to walking with a see-saw like sole. But...it is protecting what is broken in there. Had a CT scan a week or so ago, and bone is growing on the back side of leg, but front side is slow going. Gonna wait 3 months (June) and see if evidence of bone growth. If not, surgery and a bone graft from hip. Still no way near as long as a recovery as this has been.
Good news? Doc approved me for shooting, and I can at the ready line, put a normal boot on. So I am not standing on this see-saw boot! Butner oughta be interesting!
R/
Chris
Sorry to hear its taking a long time to heal. The good news is you can get to the line to shoot! Hope you don't have to go the bone graft route - that sounds like a long recovery also.
Final pic of Sporter build.
Lubed it up this morning, and added a Turner Biothane sling. She ready to rock!
I noticed the sling is LONG for this rifle.
For those that use 1907 type slings, this one is a 54 inch and it is LONG. My initial prone setting is position 8! On my AR's I use position 4.
I'll likely trim it up some.
Sure is purdy...
Thanks CWCDL79!
Hope to see you at a match!
R/
Chris
I'll be at Perry for the grand match.
KIDD trigger on the Gucci build is as I ordered....holds 3.0 and breaks at 3.25.
This is a standard RUGER Trigger group I sent to Andy Trivette, of Trivettes gunsmithing.
PERFECT job on this stock trigger.
Here is a video of me checking on the NRA weights. Digital gages are great, but....if one competes, you would be served well to get an official weight set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nlsLFSyW_E
R/
Chris
:pics:
Hi Chris,
I'm afraid that you are likely to not be qualified for any RFS classification with this build. It's not a "common Monte Carlo style" sporting rifle, and it's also not "similar to an AR-15" for T-class. I encourage you to send a picture of your rifle back to the CMP along with the previous reply from them to be sure. If you get the A-OK, be sure to bring a paper copy of it to the National matches.
Bluesteel,
The rifle is absolutely legal in the T/TR class.
I have an email confirming it from the CMP.
If you read the rules, they can be misleading. You (and others) are confusing a "Standard" sporter rifle from the T class.
I do appreciate your comment, and Miki's above. I have received clarification on this.
Not sure how much clearer I could have been in my original description, as I did mention specifically "thumbhole stocks". BUT.....
Better safe than sorry, and I do not want to have to bring 2 different stocks to Butner with me.
I am sending a pic of the rifle to CMP for clarification once again.
R/
Chris
Quote from: navybowhunter on April 03, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
Bluesteel,
The rifle is absolutely legal in the T/TR class.
I have an email confirming it from the CMP.
If you read the rules, they can be misleading. You (and others) are confusing a "Standard" sporter rifle from the T class.
I do appreciate your comment, and Miki's above. I have received clarification on this.
Not sure how much clearer I could have been in my original description, as I did mention specifically "thumbhole stocks". BUT.....
Better safe than sorry, and I do not want to have to bring 2 different stocks to Butner with me.
I am sending a pic of the rifle to CMP for clarification once again.
R/
Chris
Hi Chris,
I'm not confused. The Tactical rimfire class definition clearly states (as in the reply you received):
. Legal Tactical Rimfire rifles must comply with the requirements
for overall weight and trigger pull
and have a configuration that is similar
to common AR and modern military rifles. A standard 10/22 with a thumbhole stock doesn't have a configuration similar to a common AR so you'll have to convince them it's similar to some other modern military rifle. My point is that violating the common sporter rifle rules by using a thumbhole stock, doesn't automatically dump you into the tactical class, anymore than say, having an adjustable cheek piece would. This is where you're likely to run afoul of the CMP people at the shoot, which is why I encouraged you to send a picture and the previous email from the CMP for final confirmation.
See the CMP guide to rimfire sporter here, in addition to the official rules which you already have. Note page 9:
https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/Rimfire.pdf
I have shot the Sporter Nationals for many years. Any rifle with a thumbhole stock is considered "Tactical" or "TR" class, not "T" class. I looked through the cmp pictures but don't have time right now to post a random picture of a thumbhole stock rifle on the line. I will look later.
Birdman, you are SPOT on.
As stated....people are CONFUSING the "standard sporter" with T or TR class.
Above is a cut/paste response from CMP email I received stating in fact that thumbhole stocks are legal. BUT..., I did send a pic to CMP for yet another take on it.
Also above, is a video of the match at Nationals. Several different configurations in that video as well.
The point/confusion is however well taken. The rules can be "confusing" as I know several match directors that have questioned it as well.
Maybe next years rules will be more specific.
The Thumbhole stock I do not feel it gives a significant advantage, but some may think it does. I wish I could wear a glove....on my trigger hand....as the thumbhole is a bit large. But....rules prohibit that specifically.
Standing by for a response from CMP. Michelle has not answered her phone all week....possibly she is on vacation.
I'll post the FINAL response when I receive from her.
R/
Chris
One point to make is that you call "standard" is "T" class - aperture sights or scope, standard stock.
Remember, there is also "open" class as well - open sights - no aperture, standard stock.
Finally, Tactical or TR class. (TR must be some new description....it was Tactical as far as I remember)
WELLLlllllll......F F F F F!! LOL
CMP waffled again on their response, thumbholes are a NO GO.
I don't wanna use a MAGPUL stock....so
Guess my only option is a Volquartsen custom sporter (non thumbholed) stock, get me into the T class.
Shoulda just ordered a complete rifle from Volquartsen, entire rifle will be theirs with exception of bolt (modified) and Kidd Trigger.
SO there it is....I was wrong and Bluesteel and Miki were correct.
Time to order a stock.
R/
Chris
I know I have seen some thumbholes at previous Sporter National matches....must have let them slide. It is good to get a definite answer before somebody gets up there and can't shoot. Best of luck to you.
I still think I would be FINE. BUT....
CMP has waffled on their responses, and phone calls to Michelle have gone unanswered. Immediately after receiving her last email, I called. No answer. Think she doesn't want to discuss.
All good....VQ stock will be GUCCI as well....sans thumbhole.
R/
Chris
Went with the Blue Laminate Volquartsen sporter stock, they are installing sling swivel studs and shipping today.
Gucciness
A few years ago someone shooting next to me at the National Rimfire Sporter Match was using a thumbhole stock. I asked him about it and he told me they allowed him to participate but he would not be eligible for awards. He said they put him in 'out of competition' class. I've also seen that happen to folks who show up with a national match service rifle for the modern military match. Nice they don't just send you home without letting you at least shoot the match.
Quote from: Miki on April 06, 2017, 05:54:41 PM
Nice they don't just send you home without letting you at least shoot the match.
Yeah, but it would be even nicer if CMP didn't have vaguely written requirements. I mean, there are AKs with thumbhole stocks, and those are "modern military rifles," right? I just shake my head at arguments over the service rifle requirements (modified lower for an ambi bolt release is not allowed this year even if it was okay last year, but it's okay if it was forged in; billet receivers not allowed because they'd provide extra support). CMP makes stuff up as they go along, for some reason.
Maxwell,
You are referring to the CMP Modern Mil match correct? Yeah, that one has a weird set of rules. I played hell getting an "As issued" 20" sporter Colt barreled upper 3 or so years ago. Just made the weight requirements established prior to the allowance of scopes (2 yrs ago?).
I did change the trigger to a Rock River on that rifle, it meets as issued requirements. Stock from the LPK I used was well over 9 lbs! Put up a 89 in slow prone (or something close to that) and then a 98 in rapids! Why is that? Easy answer...., the two 9's in the rapids were me pulling thru the full 9 pounds, and the 10's in rapid fire were me only letting trigger out to the reset. Lessons learned only thru live fire there.
For that match, I wish they would establish an optics category and irons category. I love shooting irons at 200, in fact I wish I could shoot my standing and rapid seated with the irons, and then 300 and 600 with the scope..., LOL. Irons at 200 are a lot of fun for me.
Since then the modern mil match rules have changed. I compete with the A2 still in that match....but optics are allowed now. Didn't see anything about the auto bolt release, but I will read up on it. SVC rifles for NRA HP still allow the bolt release. Makes things easier in rapids, not having to reach over the scope and risk moving the elevation or windage turrets.
Either way....will be Way Good now for Sporter in T class.
I could shoot (and have challenged) many holes thru the rules written by the CMP. Many many of the rules are too ambiguous.
Miki, I intend to win the match at Butner...that is my attitude. Will it come to fruition? Who knows. But....either way I would have been livid had I been placed in the "out of competition" category.
Thanks to you (Miki) and Bluesteel for challenging me on this. In the long run....always better safe than sorry, and frankly....that thumbhole is not all it is cracked up to be. I prefer a sporter grip or an A1. If it were legal, and adding tape was also legal...I would build up the thumbhole to allow for a TIGHT fit of my firing hand. But....not legal, so moot point.
OK....I have a spare Ruger bolt and trigger group. What shall I build that into? Rimfire PRS build? Those are some pricey builds. Scope costs like 10x what the rifles cost!
The Final Product!
Meet "Gwen".....cause she ain't no holla back girl!
I did say GUCCI originally......only thing missing now is a Night Force 4x optic! LOLz
Chris, can you comment about the new rifle's preferred ammo yet?
I built essentially the same configuration as yours in its early stage with the Magpull stock and have been working with it for the last year and a half. I've shot Rifleman scores with it numerous times now using CCI ammo, but as the ammunition options have started to reappear on the store shelves I decided to start doing some ammo testing, boy was I surprised as my go-to CCI is not at all what my rifle likes.
Ironsight,
Broken leg has kept me from getting to a range. However, I am hobbling around decently now. Next Friday I will be getting a 25/50 yard zero on the rifle.
My plan is to test and chrono:
CCI SV
ELEY Force
Wolf Match
I have heard similar, that certain barrels will like certain ammo more than others. I know that the Eley Force, recently tested by a friend using a MagnetoSpeed V2 Chrony:
MAX: 1210
Min: 1182
AVG MV: 1192
SD: 10.8
Above was a 6 shot test group. The accuracy was MOA.
I hear a LOT of good things about the Wolf Match. Heck...I use primed wolf .223 brass for my across the course loads and they will hold the 10 ring at 200/300/600 yards. No prep to the brass at all. Wolf makes some great ammo for sure.
I'll post up my findings when I get to the range next week.
Side note on stocks:
A friend of mine, shot the rimfire PRS series at Peacemaker National Training Facility in WV a few weeks back. He had swapped stocks prior to the match....to a MAGPUL X22. He realized over a 3MOA zero shift from simply swapping stocks....so.....If ya swap the stock, do verify the zero.
R/
Chris
I've been getting great results from Norma Tac-22 and SK Rifle Match. Both on the lower end of the price scale for match-grade ammo. Brownells had a sale recently, might still be going, including a rebate on the Norma.
Well....last minute invite to a sporter match tomorrow. RUSHED home to sight GWEN in. RUSHED when dialing it in as well. Kinda not "appropriate" to shoot in the neighborhood!
Regardless, I am VERY happy. CCI SV at 25 yards! RUSHED!
Good enough for sighters in the match tomorrow. She is a tack driver!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMCxyEcsNh8
1.5 MOA, nothing wrong with that.
Really nice looking rifle rifle. Bravo Zulu navybowhunter!!
aj
Navy,
You have to believe you can win! I believe you can. Make it so! I'll be so happy when I hear you won. ^:)^
Thanks Miki!
Well.....interesting match for sure. I am SO glad I shot it, as I am now familiar with the COF. RAPID STANDING? LOL
So I show up to range, and see the target line as relay 1 is wrapping up. All targets appeared to have white scoring spotters in the X/10 ring! I was like...."MAN these are some HARD HOLDERS, all are putting up 10's and X's"! LMAO.....then I realized it was the target. Funny though.
Was a GREAT day. Took my daughter Shannon with me as well.
Forgot tech sight adjust tool for her rifle, and eye occluder for me. Oh well....
Put up a 569-13X! Good enough for a bronze. Just outside of the Silver. Make that 7 a 9, and a few 8's to 9's and we there.
Rifle needed a click left....and as it always is with me....did not realize that till after the match.
All in all the biggest win was that I was able to shoot seated and standing.
After the match....I let Shannon (my 8 yr old daughter) shoot my rifle. Her first time using a scoped rifle....and her first live fire shots ever. She put up (in suppported prone...using my walking boot as a rest) a 98-3X on the sporter target at 25 yards! MAN she is excited!
Rifle is capable....now I need to practice seated dry fire and standing prior to Butner.
Couple pics and videos!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeNtTxi0yz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGoy6amesM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38jxBPE6PY
R/
Chris
Rifle did have 2 issues that I saw.
Now...my scope is up as far FWD as it can go....even using the cantilever barrel mount. In seated I did have a dark circle....meaning it needs to go even more FWD. I will be getting a new optic one of these days. I don't think it affected my scores any.
On the stock. Magazine release on KIDD trigger would not drop magazine. I had to lock bolt back and push down on magazine with my finger to get them to come loose. NOT a big deal as sporter is a 5 round thing at a time in rapids. If I were to have a misfire or something...that would be a big deal.
Any suggestions on what to do about magazines not releasing easily? I'm guessing that some material in the stock likely needs to be shaved off. Wanted to ask in here before I go that route.
R/
Chris
Have you tried all of your magazines? I have a RAR and 3 mags; 2 of them drop freely from the rifle, 1 of them must be pushed out from an open bolt. They are all Ruger mags.
I have well over 15 magazines. Eventually I will work em all out and segregate them for this rifle and match.
I just felt stock...tiny bit of material in there that needs to be sanded. Should cure the issue.
No way I could do an AS AQT with it as it is now....would run out of time in rapids with the mag change.
I'll go very slowly and see what I can work out.
R/
Chris
CAUTION/NOTE on triggers.....
As stated earlier in this post, if you want to compete in Rimfire Sporter I highly recommend that you go to a bigger match and get your trigger weighed with a set of NRA official match weights.
This match, low key.....low pressure. MD used a spring type handheld trigger gage. My trigger came in at 4.5 LBS (ish) on that scale. BUT.... the trigger will not hold 3.25 on the NRA official weightset. I posted a youtube video in here on that.
SO....one could hypothetically show up at a big match, and be DQ'd for the trigger weight. DO NOT trust the gages, even the lyman digital. Get it weighed on an official set of weights.
Nuff on that. Getting DQ'd from a big dance would suck!
R/
Chris
PROUD PAPA here!
OK....bragging on my daughter should be allowed!
Our family takes EARNING seriously!
R/
Chris
Quote from: navybowhunter on April 16, 2017, 12:38:52 PM
I just felt stock...tiny bit of material in there that needs to be sanded. Should cure the issue.
No way I could do an AS AQT with it as it is now....would run out of time in rapids with the mag change.
I just went through that with a brand new Collector's 2nd Ed. 10/22 last weekend, with my wife timing me on an AQT just for fun. Shot 49/50 on stage 1, then saved 5 rounds on stage 2 and 3 on stage 3. I had to hold the bolt back and stick a finger in the ejection port to push the mag out; gravity and shaking couldn't get it out, and I was seriously ticked. A few minutes work with a file fixed that problem, and I used Prussian blue on the mag to find high spots in the mag well.
Good work by you and Shannon!
WELL Sh&T!
I was boning up on rules this morning for Sporter and other stuff. Leave for CMP Eastern Games in a few days....
I realized that I was "illegal" at the last match. I was wearing my Monard shooting glove.
Rulebook specifically states that is a no go.
So...., notified the match director to invalidate my score card.
I'll get it right next weekend at Butner!
Right thing to do.
Well.....
I managed a Silver Medal with the rifle (Gwen) during the 2017 CMP Eastern Games Rimfire Sporter match.]
Scored a solid 583-17X out of a possible 600.
Appleseed's #2 took a few cool pics of me.
We represented Appleseed well!
I will say Camp Butner Eastern Games and likely Camp Perry as well brings out all the "Hard Holders", the scores put up in this match were phenomenal. Silver is good, but....Gold was the goal. Still not bad at all for a guy with a broken leg.
HIGHLY recommend this match to any Appleseeder. You are already ready for it, if your an Appleseed Rifleman. Bone up some on Standing...., and you will be there!
Miki/and Bluesteel, thanks for the back and forths in this thread, ensuring I had a rifle that was LEGAL! And gear that was legal. Hence the pic of the Snap on shooting glove! LOL
Glove, it doesn't matter really. I use a 1907 sling and sling up REAL tight, so it did its job protecting my hand. No support really or noticeably provided with a glove.
LOW key and FUN MATCH!
R/
Chris
Only a silver medal? Congrats on being first loser! ;D
Seriously, great accomplishment. Work, sickness, and chickens in the garage have broken me out of my dry practice routine, so this is a good reminder to get going again.
Thanks for sharing your setup and the lessons learned. I am trying to find a rimfire scope that meets CMPs requirement of max 6x power. Does such a critter actually exist, preferably not fixed power? I have a vortex crossfire II presently, but it exceeds 6x and I am not thrilled about taping it.
Lonestar6,
I am on the search for such a scope myself. Vortex/Leupold/Burris all make shorter 4X-6X (ish) rimfire optics that would work.
Having the scope taped is no big deal, my issue is with eye relief, it is not "perfect" and that is what I want.
6X is plenty for me to shoot at, 4 X would likely be better but I doubt I would be able to see my holes at 50 yards with 4X.
One needs to be able to see their sighter shot holes at the 50 yard line, can be done with a scope at 6X, or.....if you have a highpower spotting scope that would work as well.
Not in a big rush to swap the scope, but it will eventually happen. When I choose one, I will post it on here if it works.
R/
Chris
Quote from: Lonestar6 on May 09, 2017, 02:02:33 AM
Thanks for sharing your setup and the lessons learned. I am trying to find a rimfire scope that meets CMPs requirement of max 6x power. Does such a critter actually exist, preferably not fixed power? I have a vortex crossfire II presently, but it exceeds 6x and I am not thrilled about taping it.
Primary Arms offers a 1-6x24, but it has a BDC reticle for ARs. I don't think it's available with a duplex or mildot. I was thinking about it for my AR, but ended up getting something with an AO instead. Optics Planet has it:
http://www.opticsplanet.com/primary-arms-primary-arms-1-6x-scope-with-patented-acss-5-56-5-45-308-reticle-ad.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/primary-arms-primary-arms-1-6x-scope-with-patented-acss-5-56-5-45-308-reticle-ad.html)
OK....SCOPES...
I pulled the trigger on the Leupold VX-1 Rimfire 2x7 28MM in gloss black.
Scope is significantly shorter than the Nikon Prostaff Rimfire 3x9 40MM....and the reticle will not be as busy. Simple "Fine Duplex" reticle.
1/4 MOA adjustments and 60 yard parallax set.
Eyepiece is almost 1/2" shorter than the Nikon as well.
Got the Leupold 3/8 inch medium rings as well. Figure this way I will just remove the Nikon from the picattiny rail and keep it somewhat zero'd. Maybe I will sell it, if I am happy with the Leupold.
Cost for the optic and rings came to just at $300 via Amazon Prime. Paid likely $20/30 extra, but....I want in a day or two. Have a range visit/practice session this Sunday and this will be a great time to zero that optic.
I will also bring the Magneto Speed V3 to the range and accuracy test the CCI SV, Eley Force and Wolf Match ammo. I'll post those results up next week.
Fingers Crossed no grey in the seated position with this setup. Otherwise it will be going back in the mail to Amazon.
Many may think I am being too meticulous about this. After all it is only a Rimfire right?
As stated above, I want a crystal clear and immediate sight picture with my scoped rifles. This setup with the Nikon 3x9 does not do that for me.
I earned a Silver with it at Butner. But....do not think for a second that I am not wanting to blame some of those 9's in seated on that grey in the optic! LOL...
It may not be the reason.....but guess what? It is in my head....and that is bad stuff!
I'll update on how it works out.
Scope model # is 113871
The Matte version is 113872, it is a little cheaper.
R/
Chris
The Leupold VX-1 Rimfire 2x7 28MM is a great optic. The fine duplex will show up really nicely on that aiming white of the Sporter target.
It will not however solve my seated "grey" issue. It is about 1/4" shorter at the eyepiece from the Nikon, not enough for me.
So....I have a range visit on Sunday and want to dial these in. Did research yesterday on a mount and found two that would be suitable. Nikon sells a set of rings that have an offset, but they are not a one piece mount. They could work....as the nice thing about the offset halves is that you have a lot of wiggle room with them, in other words you can reverse one or both rings for proper eye relief.
I also found a mount by tactical solutions called the "Edge". It is a purpose built one piece mount that has about a 1 3/4" offset. This will surely work on the sporter build...as I am already using the barrel mounted base. I look forward to that mount arriving.
I also ordered one for my daughters rifle. I will use it as bait to get her to continue practicing. She got her first lesson on the 1907 sling the other day, and was not comfy at all. SO....she had so much fun shooting (live fire) with the scope....I'm gonna receiver mount (standard 10/22 mount) the Nikon to her rifle on the Magpul X22 stock. The Tactical Solutions 1 3/4" offset oughta be fine for her to dry fire practice with in prone. Best part? She is very excited to be getting a scope.
Tactical Solutions mount cost like $80 each on Amazon. GREAT reviews at the other stores as well. Arrive tomorrow, and will post pics of the final products. I am not 100% sure it will cure my seated woes.....but I'm close....99% convinced. Always need to check these things in position as well.
R/
Chris
OK,
I received the Leupold Rimfire scope, and the Tactical Solutions Edge cantilever offset mount.
I could likely get away with removing the barrel mounted base...and reinstalling the Volquartsen receiver base....but I am not sure it would still work. Either way...I have a crystal clear and immediate sight picture for seated.
Slow prone....I have a crystal clear and immediate sight pic. I can lose it though (the sight picture) if I do not address the rifle exactly the same in prone. But I am very happy with this setup.
Standing, it is perfect.
The groups below were me zero'ing the target at 50 yards after an NRA HP practice session. I was in a rush. But...
First Pic top right in cardboard is a 10 shot group of Eley Force ammo. Bottom right in same pic is CCI SV.
Final pic, bottom right is 10 shots of Wolf Match.
Rifle appears to enjoy the CCI SV for now. That is likely what I will be shooting. The Force is ZIPPY! I was aiming at the corners of the paper (rush job) and you can see how much higher the force ammo printed.
They are all good ammo choices, but as we all know Rimfire barrels can be finicky. I can confidently use either of the 3, but CCI SV and Wolf Match seem to be very close zero wise.
On the Leupold optic...., I have two windage dials! The elevation turret has a windage dial on it. Not mailing it back....it is mounted and will remain in place till at least this winter.
OK..., lastly....
I got a Tactical Solutions mount for my daughters rifle as well. The Tactical Solutions mount will not mount to a standard Ruger base. So....I ordered their base yesterday. Will be installing the Nikon on her rifle.
Happy with the Leupold glass. I know if I had a better aiming point those groups would have been tighter for sure.
Lastly, my previous Volquartsen heavy barrel would not eject a live round from the chamber. This rifle will eject live rounds just fine.
R/
Chris