Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44, § 921(a)(7) states that;
"The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger."
On July 25, 2011 (https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download), the ATF clarified its position on the law in regards to converting a pistol to a rifle and back again. The ATF has determined that the NFA act of 1934 does not apply to a pistol converted into a rifle configuration so long as the barrel is greater than 16" in length and that the overall length of the gun is greater than 26". You can also legally convert it back to the original pistol configuration and not make a firearm covered under the NFA of 1934.
With the above information, does the RWVA have a position on whether it is acceptable to bring a pistol receiver that has a rifled barrel attachment making it a rifle by the ATF's definitions to an Appleseed? Specifically, I am interested in using a 1911 pistol accessory (http://mechtechsys.com/1911-carbine-conversion/) with a .45 ACP 16.25" barrel, a M4 rifle stock, and AR-15 style aperture sights at an Appleseed event.
This accessory operates with a simple blow back design much like the .22 LR firearms that are normally used at Appleseed. This rifle attachment should drive a 230 grain FMJ round at about 1,100 fps which is just a tad bit slower than the .22 LR commonly used at our events.
I am not sure how we would even score with this. Does anyone have any input on what to do about scoring something larger than .30 caliber?
According to the FAQ http://appleseedinfo.org/as_faq.html (http://appleseedinfo.org/as_faq.html), you need to use .32 caliber or smaller:
Quote…you can use any safe firearm which can be accurately shot from the shoulder, from a .22 to a .32 (8mm).
Darn it. I did not see that FAQ. I guess I could design an accelerator that can be made with a 3D printer to shoot a .30 caliber round out of a .45 ACP barrel.
Quote from: Mutant Texan on January 15, 2017, 09:09:35 PM
Darn it. I did not see that FAQ. I guess I could design an accelerator that can be made with a 3D printer to shoot a .30 caliber round out of a .45 ACP barrel.
Pistol caliber carbines are fun, but…that seems like a lot of trouble. I'm not sure what the reason is for the restriction, so you might check with your shoot boss to see if there's any discretion allowed. There are plenty of caliber options, though; why not go with .223? Light recoil, similar cost.
Quote from: maxwell on January 16, 2017, 12:05:58 AM
There are plenty of caliber options, though; why not go with .223? Light recoil, similar cost.
I own many AR platforms and like the 5.56x45 for the speed and long range flat trajectory. I also like pistol carbines a lot. This is not a cost issue at all. I can buy 200 rounds of .45 ACP for about $72 at Walmart and it is always in stock. The 5.56x45 or the .223 is a bit cheaper at about $62 for 200 rounds but not always available. It appears to me that I can always find the .45 ACP on the shelf. Everyone else is buying up the 9 mm, .22 LR, and .223/5.56x45 calibers.
There is also the chuckle of removing the slide from my 1911 Commander and placing this pistol accessory on the frame in place of the slide. I don't own one yet but a buddy of mine does. This thing is a beast that is mostly made of steel. It is about 7 lbs with a full magazine and it has a large top rail for mounting sights. I think that it would do very well in a sling in the prone position.
I also like to experiment around and try new ideas. The pistol carbine is something that would only be good out to about 100 yards anyway. For the true long range jobs, you have to get a modern rifle caliber.
:F :snipersmi
As a SB I have let people shoot a 9mm carbine with the understanding that they will not get the patch with that rifle regardless of score.
Run what ya brung.
2cl
The reason for the caliber restriction was a very few enthusiasts wanted to fire 50 BMG back in the days of cheap ammo.
No body else would have any fun on the line.
I do not hesitate to allow pistol caliber carbines. If a guy can shoot it, he gets a patch.
With the sights, slings, and rigidity of such carbines, never had to give a patch yet.
With my geographical location not many shooters get confused about the range and ability of pistol calibers.