I'm considering trying this. Has anybody tried it before? Any advice or warnings? I'm trying to locate an old junker stock to practice on first, but I can't seem to find one that's cheap.
I've been thinking about the same thing (I'm real fond of using the one on my M1A).
If I was ready to do it (this is off the top of my head as so far, I've only thought about it):
1. compare how clost the M1 butt plate compares top to bottom and side to side witht the M1A flip up butt plate by eyeball first, then if close enough take some measurements and write it all down.
Maybe the quick way to do that (just hit me) would be to remove the M1A butt plate and see if an M1 butt plate would sit down on the M1A butt stock - if so then the only wood mods are for the hinge at the top.
2. measure the notch in the M1A/M14 butt stock (width and depth) and mark the M1 stock with a slightly smaller "verson" of those measurements - slow removal of the wood beats the heck out of trying to figure out how to put it back.) >:(
3. Measure the depth (back to front of the notch). Tape a couple of drill bits so you don't drill too deep and drill out the center of the (soon to be) notched area and then slowly cut/chip that left over wood out.
4. You might want to determine how deep the upper butt plate screw holes in both stocks to see if you need to pre drill the M1 butt stock to make sure you don't "lose" the hole when notching the stock.
Whether cutting or chipping be careful and do small amounts as you don't want to split the stock.
Not having the "proper" tools to do work like this I look for way to use what I've got to get what I want.
If you've got the proper tools then by all means, use'em.
I'm thinking about it as well.
I was thinking of making a jig/template to allow the use of a plunge router and then square up the corners with a sharp wood chisel
I just got a salvage stock from Doug Lauver for $16 to practice on. We'll see how it goes.
What is a plunge router?
Quote from: longjohn on January 10, 2009, 11:39:23 AM
I just got a salvage stock from Doug Lauver for $16 to practice on. We'll see how it goes.
What is a plunge router?
Borrowed from http://www.woodworking.com/ww101et-rout.cfm (http://www.woodworking.com/ww101et-rout.cfm)
Re plunge routers...They have distinct advantages if you want to do certain things. Like routing round an inside of a template it is simply a pair of spring loaded pillars that keep the bit above the base. As you push down, the spinning bit enters the work piece and off you go. There is a lock on the handles that you push in when you have reached the set depth which allows you to continue routing at a constant setting. Any time you want to stop cutting you just release the lock and the bit retracts clear of the work piece. Lot's of other wrinkles but that's basically it. Craftsman makes a plunge router adaptor to use with a Dremel type tool, that might work as well http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00953175000P?vName=Tools&cName=PowerToolAccessories&sName=Router%20Tables%20&%20Attachments&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00953175000P?vName=Tools&cName=PowerToolAccessories&sName=Router%20Tables%20&%20Attachments&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a)
Either way, they let you use a template to make a precise cut (especially an amatuer such as myself)
longjohn,
Please elaborate on the advantages that you see in the M14 butt plate vs the M1 butt plate. Just curious.
Shooting with my M1 has been difficult because the butt slips down in my pocket as I shoot it, causing successive shots to go progressively higher. This negates the possibility of attaining NPOA. I do not have this problem with the M14. I also witnessed an otherwise Rifleman-worthy Appleseeder miss scoring Rifleman with his M1 due to this exact same problem.
If I can't make this work, I have some skateboard tape I will tack onto the back instead.
I was thinking that if I can perfect this I may do a YouTube video of it and slap the Appleseed URL all over the video for publicity.
Learn to shoot your Garand as is, if you modify it you can't use that stock in garand matches. A good position with the stock pulled back into your shoulder pocket will eliminate this problem. A shooting jacket will help a lot too. Some folks will use shoe glue to glue a thin mouse pad on their shooting jacket shoulder pad to make a non slip surface.A shooting jacket has elbow pads and other features that will keep your sling from slipping. The flip up shoulder rest on the M-14 is for firing full auto, the rifle climbs like crazy if your not ready for the recoil.Fred sells the shooting jacket that most folks use and the price is right plus you have a great place to display your rifleman patch or the other patches that you earn at Appleseeds.
I have had the slipping problem with steel butt plates as well. Seems that no matter how tight the position, the thing just keeps on slipping and sliding. After some playing around with the M14 flip up, I have to agree that the simpler expedients of applying a non-slip of your choice to the standard butt plate is the way to go. This way, you are not tied to a special rifle that would be difficult to replicate under any kind of adverse or field condition.
BTW, shots won't go higher if you maintain the same sight picture. In other words, if the thing is slipping, push it back up and never fire if your sights are off. It is acceptable to pull the rifle into your shoulder with your right hand as an aid to keeping the rifle in the pocket. It also mitigates recoil effects on your body.
Personally, I haven't found the cloth pad on the jacket to help at all against slipping.
Sharp metal checkering on the butt plate may help as well, but that is getting away from field expedience.
Just my $0.02...
I use my M1A flip up in standing, sitting and prone. I have a scope on it so my head is higher off the stock, but it works. Sooner or later I'll try one on my M1 sythetic stock.
The idea is to get hits. If it helps you get hits, how can it be bad?
QuoteLearn to shoot your Garand as is, if you modify it you can't use that stock in garand matches. A good position with the stock pulled back into your shoulder pocket will eliminate this problem. A shooting jacket will help a lot too. Some folks will use shoe glue to glue a thin mouse pad on their shooting jacket shoulder pad to make a non slip surface.A shooting jacket has elbow pads and other features that will keep your sling from slipping. The flip up shoulder rest on the M-14 is for firing full auto, the rifle climes like crazy if your not ready for the recoil.Fred sells the shooting jacket that most folks use and the price is right plus you have a great place to display your rifleman patch or the other patches that you earn at Appleseeds.
I have no interest in shooting in competitions, really.
I ordered the jacket from Fred back in October, I think. I'm still waiting for it, so I'm taking matters into my own hands. I can't rely on something that isn't there.
I'm sure some of this is shooter error. Regardless, I like to tilt the odds in my favor. I may not be able to find my jacket on the day I need my rifle. Then what? I can either have a rifle with a slippery stock, or one without. The shooting jacket and the M14 buttplate are still compatible. I can still fire with the buttplate closed. Where's the downside?
QuoteSharp metal checkering on the butt plate may help as well, but that is getting away from field expedience.
Can you elaborate on this? What is sharp metal checkering?
Quote from: longjohn on January 11, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
I ordered the jacket from Fred back in October, I think. I'm still waiting for it...
http://www.shootingmall.com/
What is sharp metal checkering?
Teeth
You may be positioning the rifle but too low in your shoulder and your cheek to stock weld is pushing the butt of the rifle down. Try to bring the rifle up to your head as much as possible not your head down to the stock. In the offhand position only the lower half of the stock is on your shoulder and your head is as upright as possible. If you can figure out why the rifle slips and correct the problem then you can pick up any rifle and shoot with no problems. Most military rifles have smooth butt plates due to lots of time on the drill pad doing manual of arms. Shooting in competitions is a lot of fun and good way to put your skills to the test and spread the Appleseed word.
Yep, that's the other variable... I may not be able to get MY rifle, either. I will give those pointers a shot and see how it goes. Thanks hawkeye.
I'm still going to tinker with the M14 buttplate, just because it sounds like fun, and I know next to nothing about woodworking. Best way to learn...
QuoteQuote
Sharp metal checkering on the butt plate may help as well, but that is getting away from field expedience.
Can you elaborate on this? What is sharp metal checkering?
Teeth were a good example. I guess we should start with are you familiar with checkering in general? Well it is the same for metal as for wood. There is pressed checkering, cut checkering, lasered checkering and some variations like molded in checkering for synthetics. Basically, cut checkering is the sharpest. Cut checkering also takes the most skill and time to accomplish. Hand cut checkering is done in wood with tools designed with little teeth to do the cutting. On metal, a checkering file is one way to produce cut checkering.
As for a definition of checkering, think of it as a series of closely spaced, cross cuts that form little diamonds designed to give a patterned roughness to a surface.
For what it's worth....warriors of all races and faiths have "personalized" their chosen weapons for just about as long as warriors have carried weapons.
Not saying you're a warrior ;), but making your weapon of choice fit you better and work better for you puts you in good company. It tells me you are more serious about using it than about just having it (you know, those folks who buy all kinds of rifles/pistols/etc. so they can sit around the wood stove at the store and brag about what they own). I really hadn't thought much about it from that angle when I did the mods to my M1. Mine has a synthetic stock (oh, the horror, the traditional look is ruined) that has a krylon camo job, an ameaga ranges scout scope mount (what?? replacing wood with metal???) and a cheap pistol scope (oh man, everybody knows if the scope don't cost at least $400 it'll never work) and finally a cheap knock off M1D flash suppressor. It's not about "the classic" look (I have some other M1's for that), it's about making it work better for me so that if I ever have to use it I'll be more likely to hit what I need to hit.
You can find a really worn out M1 stock for around $10 to $15 at a gunshow.
Good luck with it.