I've been doing it my way for over 30 years. I haven't worn out my rifle barrels yet. I always hear about how important it is to clean the chamber of your rifle (I'm sure it's important for it to be clean but why make the job harder by pushing the barrel crud into the chamber during the barrel cleaning operation?
You gotta love the obvious that you, somehow, failed to see. #)
Gonna try that next time.
So logical it's scarry! :o
Interesting. Using a standard cleaning in the same principal as a bore snake and saving yourself $15 bucks in the process. ;D
I'd never thought of that. ???
smle
Thanks - but I really like my boresnake. I can do half a dozen passes with it from chamber to muzzle in the time my buddy takes to assemble his rod, thread his patch and run the first one. So for me it was $20- well spent. YMMV
Just remember how all those CMP M1's got that muzzle "erosion" and it warn't from shooting :'(
Sam
I remember reading a couple of articles, (NRA and CMP publications, as I remember, maybe someone else does too?), where they tried an experiment using those GI sectioned cleaning rods to see just how much abuse it would take to open the muzzle by one number.
As I recall, they determined that it was possible to do after simulating thousands of cleanings where they really worked the rod like a plumbers helper. :P (Which is probably the way they did them in basic, new recruit after hundreds of new recruits!)
The conclusion was that as long as you took due care and didn't work the rod like that, you'd likely shoot the barrel out before you saw enough crown damage to make an appreciable difference. (I don't think they ever got the ME reading to change an entire number)
Of course, it makes sense to take the best care possible of your beloved rifle, so nobody would suggest using a sectioned rod if you had something better at hand. But it's hard to get that Dewey in the butt trap! :) I think you should just use whatever you use as carefully as possible. It just makes sense.
Cleaning seems to run through phases. Remember when we were told not to use anything containing amonia? (Right about the time the new non amonia cleaners came out....hmmmmmm ::)) In ten years some new system will be out and they'll be decrying the damage being done by bore snakes! ;D
Actually I decry the damage by BoreSnakes now.
Pull throughs are what ate those GI muzzles up, not the cleaning rods.
A BoreSnake is nothing but a pull through that holds more "lapping compound" than the old GI versions.
Sam got it right. That's why I use stainless steel Dewey rods. Used to use the plastic coated ones before that, and Parker Hale even before those.
The Bore Snake isn't too bad, IF you keep it clean over time. Otherwise, you're might as well cake it in valve lapping compound and have at it. The really good pull through use plastic coat cables that don't hold dirt.
Any one else here used the OTIS cleaning system on their Garand/M1a's.
I started using one about a year and a half ago and I LOVE it.
Vinyl coverd aircraft grade cable with brass tips. Whats not to like.
just my .02
Buzz.
QuoteWhats not to like.
Inability to work on one area for multiple passes.
You get to spend all day threading the cable in and out and it isn't very useful for pushing anything like a broken brush or a tight patch that came off the jag out of the bore.
Sam
The OTIS kit is the one I was referring to, and I've used one on M16A2's, M16A4's and M4's enough to know that for a pull through, they're great. They're currently issued to the Army for cleaning. The Bore Snake is still much quicker, so I still keep one handy.
On the other hand, I still love a steel rod. You can push with a rod, but you can't with a cable.
So, for serious cleaning, I still use the Dewey rod, I still keep a cleaning kit with a rod handy to push stuff out with, and I do use the Bore Snake on the .22's.
Nickle, SamD
Tnx for your suggestions for hard rod. I have several boresnakes, and feel they're good for giving a quick cleaning after use. I can also appreciate the merits of a rod, when you have to clear a stuck patch, etc.
I like to wash out the boresnakes. Not so much worried about powder and lead residue acting like a lap, it's just that I don't see any purpose in dragging a dirty snake thru a bore and expecting to get an effective cleaning job.
Quote
I remember reading a couple of articles, (NRA and CMP publications, as I remember, maybe someone else does too?), where they tried an experiment using those GI sectioned cleaning rods to see just how much abuse it would take to open the muzzle by one number.
As I recall, they determined that it was possible to do after simulating thousands of cleanings where they really worked the rod like a plumbers helper. (Which is probably the way they did them in basic, new recruit after hundreds of new recruits!)
I appreciate the info about the study on cleaning rods. Takes some of the worry out of the cleaning chore. I might ask about that study the next time I visit the Camp Perry store.
Thanks for your advice,
FB
The BoreSnake is GREAT for use at the range, when a shooter has a dirty bore, making his .22 to start jamming. A pass or two with the BoreSnake, and they're good to go.
From the last GCA magazine. (Spring, 2009) They ran an experiment to see if running the GI sectioned cleaning rod would significantly damage the muzzle. They wanted to see how many strokes it would take to wear the muzzle from 2.0 to 3.0. And after 66,000 strokes they finally did it! Conclusion: The Army was right, it really doesn't wear the crown out under normal circumstances.
Of more interest was when they decided to do an accuaracy check against other rifles.
The "experiment" rifle, (MW of 3.0), shot a 10 round group of 1.476" at 100 yards.
The next rifle with a MW of 4.0 shot a .774" group.
A third rifle with a MW of 1.0 shot a 1.492" group.
Conclusion? "It is our firm conviction that cleaning the M1 rifle from the muzzle end with a one piece, coated rod and excercising even a small amount of care will have no negative effect on the muzzle, and therefore also not on the performance of that rifle over the useful life of the barrel."
"A second conclusion is that although these gauges (MW gauges) tend to give one some mental comfort (or discomfort) when inspecting a rifle, each rifle is an entity in and of itself. That is, you won't know how it will perform until you start putting holes in paper"
Very interesting. But I still ain't using that GI rod......... ;)
Quote from: Junior Birdman on April 05, 2009, 04:08:10 PM
Very interesting. But I still ain't using that GI rod......... ;)
Better use SPF 50, though.
I've been using a bore snake since BDG took me to Academy in January and said "POP, this is what you want."
He was right. I like it. My only concern is when it gets to the point that it is 'caked' real dirty do I clean it or just purchase a new one? Seems this one was not cheap like about $15.00.
And, if I clean it what Solvent should I use?
Any experience out there?
POP
Quote from: Junior Birdman on April 05, 2009, 04:08:10 PM
Very interesting. But I still ain't using that GI rod......... ;)
No sweat. By the way, which hole in the butt stock do you put that fancy one piece coated cleaning rod in? The top or the bottom? :)
I just use the GI duct tape to hold it along side the rifle. Left side. The op rod slaps it on the right side. ;)
I needed that laugh. My wife came in to see what was so funny. For some reason, she doesn't seem to get it. ::)
Quote from: Respiratory POP on April 05, 2009, 07:40:03 PM
I've been using a bore snake since BDG took me to Academy in January and said "POP, this is what you want."
He was right. I like it. My only concern is when it gets to the point that it is 'caked' real dirty do I clean it or just purchase a new one? Seems this one was not cheap like about $15.00.
And, if I clean it what Solvent should I use?
Any experience out there?
POP
Actually, you can clean it in the washing machine (some domestic finesse called for here). You'll need to put it into some sort of cloth bag to keep it from wrapping around the agitator. I use an old GI laundry bag - probably dates from the 60's. Simple Green for detergent (1/4 cup is plenty). I'll also put a couple of garage towels in the washer with the bag (old bath towels we use for wiping down the car after it's washed so it doesn't spot). When the washer's done, take it out of the bag, hang it up and let it air dry. Or you could just wash it by hand, just be sure to rinse really well to get the detergent out of it.
Thanks Paul,
I hadn't thought of the Simple Green angle.
Something I have plenty of.
hmmm, I wonder if I could talk Mrs POP into washing that for me. **)
POP
After reading this discussion I grabbed a length of weed wacker line, put the tip into the flame on the kitchen stove, It caught on fire (gentle tiny flame), melted a round blob on the end, I pressed the blob down onto the side of my pocket knife.
Result: A flat section on the end of the line that fits tightly into a .22 rimfire case. I poked a small hole in the .22 patch, threaded it down to my flat spot, ran the point end thru the receiver and out the muzzle, pulled it out and bingo, clean bore with no cleaning rod!!!
This little trick really made my day. It's coiled up inside the ziplock that holds my .22 patches so it takes essentially zero room in my range bag.
Don't know what the fire/flattening might do to the trimmer line....but that stuff is tough with a capital T. I have a couple of those old style lights with the pull string switch on them. The strings were always breaking. I cut a slight notch in a piece of trimmer line and forced it into the end of the chain on the switch and its been in use for almost 20 years now with no "pull offs" or breaks.
That trimmer line idea for a cleaning "rod" might work out pretty good.
QuoteActually, you can clean it in the washing machine (some domestic finesse called for here). You'll need to put it into some sort of cloth bag to keep it from wrapping around the agitator. I use an old GI laundry bag - probably dates from the 60's. Simple Green for detergent (1/4 cup is plenty). I'll also put a couple of garage towels in the washer with the bag (old bath towels we use for wiping down the car after it's washed so it doesn't spot). When the washer's done, take it out of the bag, hang it up and let it air dry.
Just make sure not to wash it with a red shirt--you don't want to show up at the range with a pink boresnake.*
*Don't go there!
Quote from: Antibubba on April 06, 2009, 02:39:52 AM
QuoteActually, you can clean it in the washing machine (some domestic finesse called for here). You'll need to put it into some sort of cloth bag to keep it from wrapping around the agitator. I use an old GI laundry bag - probably dates from the 60's. Simple Green for detergent (1/4 cup is plenty). I'll also put a couple of garage towels in the washer with the bag (old bath towels we use for wiping down the car after it's washed so it doesn't spot). When the washer's done, take it out of the bag, hang it up and let it air dry.
Just make sure not to wash it with a red shirt--you don't want to show up at the range with a pink boresnake.*
*Don't go there!
**)
I sneek mine into the laundry in an old sock, the wife doesn't yell at me until she is folding the now clean socks @)