Any suggestions for decent spotting scope that go out to 400, without breaking the bank?
I have a Barska, which quite frankly is only good for 100-maybe 200 with my old eyes.
My wonderful wife gave me a Konuspot100 as a birthday present. I really like it, very clear optics, easy to adjust. The only problem was I had to get a stand for it, which costs almost as much as the scope itself.
Konus 80 is good bang for the buck. Look around, you can sometimes find sales. I would check Amazon, BH Photo, Creedmoor Sports, Champions Choice, and Champion Shooting Supplies. Probably Adorama and Optics Planet too.
But if you need a stand it will get expensive.
However, with the exception of very good light days, you will not see holes in paper at 400 yards. I found this to be true even with a $3k Leica Spotting scope.
As far as I'm concerned, the most important use of a spotting scope is allowing the shooter to read the Mirage.
Mike
Already have the tripods, so that's not a problem.
I've used Optics Planet before, good site.
Agreed with JM Davis,
Seeing bullet holes with my Kowa TSN 821 with a 24X long eye relief eyepiece at 300 yards is impossible for me (.223 holes) and Kowa is good glass.
I know for sure it is impossible to see the holes at 600. Now, that is on a standard NRA target (white paper black aiming black). It would likely be fine if I was shooting at the "shoot n see" targets out to say 400 yards.
That being said, you could always go for something more powerful than 24X. On Kowa scopes, the eyepiece is typically not sold with the scope body.
R./
Chris
An issue sometimes is that more magnification brings more mirage distortion. I used a Konus 20-60 80mm for several years. It works fine. But I generally kept the magnification on the low end for better results. These days I use a Celestron Regal 80mm with a 27x Long Eye Relief eyepiece. It is an excellent scope but will blow your budget.
I never felt seriously hampered by the Konus. I would honestly judge it to be 85% of the Kowa or Ceestron for less than 1/3 the price.
If you plan to use this for rifle shooting, you will wind up wanting to replace your tripod with a scope stand there are a number of good ones out there.
Lots of good info here, I'll add only this. Once you get much above 25X in power you will start to loose clarity in what you see. At say 30+ power 30cal holes will look like greasy thumbprints on a hot humid day. Hard to tell if it's a bullethole or a bug.
The first one I had was an older B&L 20X, nice but it needed a little more power. I've a 24X now and it does well.
I bought the Konus 20-60x 80mm last year, and have been happy with it (I only have a 100 yard range, though, and no clue how to read mirage). Up to now, I've been using it on a Slik Pro II tripod with ball head, since you can spread the legs out flat on the ground for prone usage; it works fine, but is marginal for the scope's weight. Just last weekend I picked up an old Freeland bipod stand that my gunsmith had on consignment; this seems marginal for offhand, but the price was right and the elevation adjustment is much nicer.
I picked up a cheap scope last year that I really like. Since I get around by motorcycle, one that packs small-n-light is a priority as well, and by shopping around, I discovered that even with very expensive scopes in the size range I needed, image degradation made magnification over 50x almost useless. (Of course the bigger the objective lens the better high magnification looks, and you likely don't have my packing requirements.) Sportsman's warehouse had a little Alpen 15-45x60 on sale last fall, I forget exactly how much, but it was under $100 so I set it and several more expensive scopes of the same aperture on the counter for a head-to-head at the same magnification settings, and was impressed enough to buy it on the spot. It does have a parallel eyepiece which is less convenient to use in prone, but that also means it packs smaller. At 45x, with good contrast between target and background, I can see .30 cal holes at 300M, but 400 requires special hi-vis targets.
To read the Mirage (I am still working on this) simply focus in on the target (works best at 200 yards or more), and then back the focus knob off about 1/4 of a turn. Important to "back it off".
Then, if there is mirage, it will reveal itself.
You can use the mirage, along with other indicators (wind flags, trees, leaves, grass blades, smoke) to judge the speed of the wind.
The wind is always changing, there is a pick up, and a let off and a lull. The lull is sometimes referred to as a "boil", where the mirage is going straight up. I've been told "never shoot in a boil".
Use the scope to find a "repeatable" wind condition, or....to decide whether to dial in for windage or not.
Ken Roxburgh's clinics, (Team Remington) he will have you saying between each shot as you look into the spotting scope "Is it the same, or has it changed". If it is the same, send another shot. If it has changed.....decision time. Wait it out for the mirage you are dialed in for, or.....dial for the new condition.
Lot more to it but that is mirage in a nutshell. If you "Youtube" Ken Roxburgh, you will find some videos taken by an attendee at his clinic, and get the full meal deal on it all if you desire.
Hope this helps. As JMDavis stated in the beginning, the main purpose of the spotting scope is to read the mirage. The other reason, (In competitive shooting/NRA High Power) is to be able to perform your duties as score keeper.
Scope Stands:
I have the Creedmoor 1 inch stand, with the "polecat" articulating head. They are not cheap, and there are other options out there. Ray-Vin stand is one that comes to mind.
On the stand, if you intend to compete, or shoot "standing" with the spotting scope, it is imperative that the stand be sturdy. Shooting in a windy condition, with the big spotting scope at the highest point on the stand can be a disaster with a sub-par scope stand. You don't want your high dollar KOWA scope to be taking a nose dive because the stand is not sturdy.
You can also build your own stand as well. There are "directions" for this on the internet. Google it. Or in the CMP forum.
R/
Chris
Another really cool feature of the spotting scope, is that it can be used to see the bullet trace. If you have not seen that yet, it is pretty cool the first time you see it.
What you do, is get directly behind, or just to the right/left of the shooter. Set the scope up so you can see the target, you can even back it off to view mirage (I do this to see what the wind is doing to my shooters I am scoring for).
Make sure the scope is as close to "inline" with the shooters barrel as possible.
You really want to be shooting at 300 yards or more. Tough to see bullet trace under 300 yards.
What will happen (looks like the Matrix), is that if the shooter is shooting say 600 yards slow prone, at about 300 yards you will see the bullet trace. You can also see the impact into the target. It is VERY cool, and also will show you if there is significant wind. It is like watching a spiral thrown hail mary football pass.
I hear in the snow it is even cooler, the snow appears to "move out of the way" for the bullet.
Learning how to see and read bullet trace can be a valuable tool, especially when working as a sniper/spotter team or when shooting a competitive team match where you can coach eachother.
It can also be a good tool, to help get a shooter dialed in on the target.
R/
Chris
Hey Dude-
If you haven't picked up a scope yet I've been using a Celestron 80 with a 20-60 zoom that I'm pretty happy with. It's basic but adequate for KD qualifying distances - .308 hits at 400 yards visible - 5.56 maybe but iffy.
Don't know what breaking the bank is for you but you can pick one up now including a tripod with free shipping for $189.99 at Optics Planet.
I'll bring it to the Saratoga shoot for you to check out.
The Konus in 80mm or 100mm is pretty popular here at the NRA WC.