All,
Feel free to FWD this on as well.
Awhile back I bought close to 1000 rounds of factory Hornady .223 75 grain ammo from the CMP. I can provide the lot #'s later if you are interested. I purchased it primarily for practice ammo, and short range shooting (within 300 yards).
Got into a bit of a jam time wise, and for the Creedmoor Cup matches, I opted to use the 75 grain factory Hornady. I likely shot just over 300 rounds of it thru my A2 service rifle. I also shot 36 rounds exactly thru my modern military A2 (as issued, non match conditioned rifle) during the "Modern Military" match.
I noticed some primer pockets were "pierced" during the matches, and opted to change the firing pin on my A2 SVC rifle. Don't really pay attention to what the brass looks like during a match, way too much other stuff to "hurry up and get done".
Yesterday I decided to begin the reloading process on my .223 brass, as I am needing to reload for several upcoming practice sessions and matches.
My process for reloading, is to:
1. Hand Deprime (using a Harvey hand held Deprimer)
2. Wet Tumble
Never does a dirty piece of brass touch my Dillon 650, it is my process and it works for me. Absolutely saved me from having an aneurysm last night as well.
My hand held deprimer, on almost 30% of the Hornady brass, would not expel the bad primer. This is because the load was so hot, that the primer "swelled" inside the pocket, making for near impossible extraction. THIS IS EXACTLY why I am glad I was not running my press "progressive", can you imagine if I was dropping powder and also seating bullets, that 3 cases out of 10 (or more) would not allow me to index the shell plate?!!!
I was able to remove the bulged primers with pliers. But wait....there's more!
I posted about this on Facebook, and there are some competitive svc rifle shooters that cautioned me on a few other items. These are:
1. DEFINITELY Replace the firing pins on any rifle this ammo was used in
They also asked for pics of the bolts. The modern mil bolt is still in good shape (only 36 rounds thru that with this ammo), however my A2 SVC rifle bolt is "Broke Like the Economy" as one competitor put it. Look closely at the firing pin hole on that bolt, and you will see the elongation. Also, the bolt face is pushed rearwards, dented. *Will post pic later, from home*
2. Replace bolt on A2
I did notice some "blow by" on a few shots, but did not think much of it. Frankly, I likely got lucky that the bolt face did not crater back.
Again, these are NOT Reloads, it is factory Hornady 75 grain ammo. A few have experienced the same issue, say it has something to do with the Sh*tty primers they were using at one point. There is some "grumblings" about this on the internet as well. I will be calling Hornady, to express my displeasure, and also request compensation. We will see how that goes, a friend had no luck with them, said Hornady blamed it on his firing pin.
A friend just told me there are several complaints on the internet about this ammo, stating that "Hornady uses Winchester primers. There have been quite a few complaints of pierced primers with the newer (brass colored) Winchester SR primers in AR15's."
I'll be replacing the bolt on the A2, and also checking the headspace (I am sure it is still good...but may as well check) with Go/NO Go gages.
FYSA
R/
Chris
Thanks for the heads up.
Hornady should be made aware of this and I believe would be happy to get your equipment repaired to good working order. And replace the ammo with something like kind and quality.
I've heard somewhat recently that the Win SR primers are becoming an issue in AR's. Not from my experience though as all I've used have been older plated WSR primers.
Is the primer brass in color? I ask as the newer Win primers have been available this way for several years for reloading purposes.
Hope you get some answers from Hornady fairly quickly.
Thanks TOMINCT
Yes, the primers are brass in color.
I called Hornady about an hour ago, spoke with "Doug", and emailed my pics and issue to "webmaster@hornady.com".
They did not seem too eager to take any sort of responsibility, however....as you mention, I know of several others that have had similar issues.
I'll be following up with a daily call, until we get some resolution on this.
Think about it, I'm now out:
600 pieces of brass (cause I am not going to reutilize it....)
400 loaded rounds
AR 15 Bolt
2 firing pins
I'll keep ya'll posted.
Thanks for the heads-up. I have some of this that didn't shoot well in any of my guns. I might have used it for plinking, but I think I'll disassemble it instead.
7/7/2016 UPDATE:
Hornady agreed to take 2 boxes of the ammo back for testing. That was about a week ago. They called me today and admitted that the primers were exhibiting signs of excessive pressure and are sending me a call tag to ship the remaining 400+ back for an exchange.
The ammo ruined 2 bolts. My service rifle bolt (likely shot 300 rounds of the Hornady stuff thru it) the firing pin hole is elongated, and the bolt visually depicts signs of gas cutting. My other rifle that saw maybe 50 rounds of the ammo in one match, is also bad now.
I verified the bolts were bad by removing the extractors and ejectors and checking with GO/NO GO and Field Gages. Both bolts in both rifles closed on NO GO. Ordered 2 new bolts and 2 new firing pins and we are good to go again, but I am out an additional $120 *ish*.
Hornady assured me they will send ammo from a known good lot, and that they would discuss the issues with my bolts.
For those interested the LOT # of the ammo was: 3140521
So, at least they are attempting to make it right. I'll be happy to get 500 rounds of ammo back that will function properly.
R/
Chris
Yikes! :wb:
It's good they are covering the ammo but I would think they would do the same for the equipment also. By taking back the ammo they are admitting there is an issue.
When a competitive shooter or large volume user has a safety issue that's something not to be taken lightly. Check other sites for similar threads, there could be a few more people in similar circumstances. Don't be surprised to see a recall with the known lots listed soon. ::)
About 20 years ago Federal had a large lot of 210 match primers that were blowing and etching bolt faces. They swapped the remaining primers and had the bolts repaired that were etched.
Quote from: navybowhunter on July 07, 2016, 04:50:45 PM
7/7/2016 UPDATE:
Hornady agreed to take 2 boxes of the ammo back for testing. That was about a week ago. They called me today and admitted that the primers were exhibiting signs of excessive pressure and are sending me a call tag to ship the remaining 400+ back for an exchange.
The ammo ruined 2 bolts. My service rifle bolt (likely shot 300 rounds of the Hornady stuff thru it) the firing pin hole is elongated, and the bolt visually depicts signs of gas cutting. My other rifle that saw maybe 50 rounds of the ammo in one match, is also bad now.
I verified the bolts were bad by removing the extractors and ejectors and checking with GO/NO GO and Field Gages. Both bolts in both rifles closed on NO GO. Ordered 2 new bolts and 2 new firing pins and we are good to go again, but I am out an additional $120 *ish*.
Hornady assured me they will send ammo from a known good lot, and that they would discuss the issues with my bolts.
For those interested the LOT # of the ammo was: 3140521
So, at least they are attempting to make it right. I'll be happy to get 500 rounds of ammo back that will function properly.
R/
Chris
In my opinion they are not going the distance they should. They should compensate you for the damaged equipment. That would be easy enough by sending you a full case of 1k rounds.
My only question is where do you get 2 new bolts and firing pins for $120 bucks (ish). I could use a new bolt myself.
Quote from: Three'oEight on July 08, 2016, 11:04:07 AM
My only question is where do you get 2 new bolts and firing pins for $120 bucks (ish). I could use a new bolt myself.
Palmetto State has MPI tested Carpenter 158 bolts for $50 each and firing pins for $8.
I never buy factory centerfire ammo.
I picked up quite a bit of hornady .308 cases off the ground, and with the mistaken notion that they were of high quality, started converting them to 6mm creedmore.
The resulting blown shoulders and split necks ran about 15 % on fire forming.
Now any hornady brass I find goes to the same pile as brass from 3rd world nations.
No sense wasting time with poor brass.
Palmetto State is exactly where I got the replacement bolts and firing pins.
I'll post up what Hornady does to make it right. Sent them the ammo, and a letter describing what happened to the bolts and firing pins.
R/
Chris
Update/Closure:
Well...I have been busy as of late, Camp Perry and other matches and Life.
Hornady never did "formally" agree that there is/was an issue with the ammunition. What they did do, was acceptable to me. I typically do not shoot the 75 grain ammo, normally its 77's at 200/300 yards, and the 80's at 600 yards.
I told Hornady that I did not want the ammo back, and also did not want a "different LOT". I told them that I reload, and that I would take 80 grain AMAX bullets as compensation for the loaded ammo.
I received 2200 80 grain AMAX bullets about a week later.
I'm good with that.
R/
Chris
Being the new kid on the block (first Appleseed Labor Day weekend, second one this past weekend) I just saw this post but had the same issue with the same lot from Hornady in March. Thankfully, I was shooting my Ruger American bolt gun and saw the smoke from the failed primer on the 4th shot. Sent the ammo back to Hornady where Doug said the ammo was good so the issue must be with my rifle (but they replaced the ammo anyway)! Ruger replaced the rifle because of the cut bolt face and I haven't shot the replacement ammo yet. Now I'm not sure I will!
Just for my own knowledge I would like to see some pictures of the bolt face and firing pins. If I haven't shown up for this too late.
Thanks
Michael :pop:
Quote from: Pelon on October 03, 2016, 03:43:46 PM
Just for my own knowledge I would like to see some pictures of the bolt face and firing pins. If I haven't shown up for this too late.
Thanks
Michael :pop:
Michael, I checked my files and I apparently deleted the photos after I got the new rifle. I posted the issue on the Ruger Forum in June (TN Hillbilly) so I was mistaken on the date (I thought I remembered it happening in March). If I can find copies of the photos I'll post them here.
Thanks Dracomeister!!!