So, I've taken my Appleseed experience and have continued forward with the marksmanship journey.
Last year I got into the CMP Games and NRA High Power shooting. I will say, that it was humbling at first. From a 4 MOA standard to trying to tweek and peak every bit of the positions to attain a 1-2 MOA standard is tough. But I LOVE the challenge.
NRA and CMP rules have changed this year for SVC rifle, and optics are allowed, as well as length adjustable stocks. I want to address my experience with the front sight versus shooting with a scope, and the adjustable stocks.
I'll attempt to describe this in reference to the positions.
Standing:
Appleseed, with a hasty sling, 4 MOA shooting at 100 yards is FUN! In the other disciplines, I was HUMBLED. No sling allowed, so that forced me to work on the position, calling the shots, etc. I procured a SCATT training system, and that had helped A LOT! I truly enjoy shooting 200 yards with an iron sighted rifle, and calling my shots (took awhile to be able to do that). Since service rifle shooting now allows a maximum of a 4.5 power optic, things have changed a bit. I'll caveat this with I have only had the scope on my SVC rifle for a week. Shot my first match with it yesterday and put up a pathetic 52 out of 100 in standing. The sight picture with a scope is a lot different than it is with an optic. LOTS of movement seen, and I need to practice with the scope more. The length of the stock has something to do with this as well. I am using a MAGPUL UBR stock, and was told to shorten the stock as much as possible, I may have had it too short. Again, dry fire practice with the SCATT should reveal more.
Seated:
WOW, prior to swapping to an optic, my best scores rapid seated at 200 yards were between 88 and 91. I beat that yesterday with the scope. BUT....., for the first time ever, I could actually see my pulse in the scope. It was (pulse) holding the length of the 10 ring or better, but it was surely visible. Interesting, because with the irons, I never really noticed the pulse.
Before I address Rapid and Slow prone, I want to talk more about my experience with the front sight. I can absolutely see my front sight, but something very weird happens at distance on those black aiming rings with a white background. I lose the front sight in the aiming black. I have tried center of mass hold, and that has worked the best for me, but still have some vertical stringing. It is not my sling, or my breathing, or my position. It is my eyesight. I have also tried a 6 o clock hold, but can never be sure if I am exactly on the line of black, or if I am holding line of white, flat tire, etc. I keep data books on all of this, and a quick review always (with exception of wind and when it is my position) reveals vertical stringing.
Rapid Prone:
WOW! Yesterday I put up a low to mid 90's score in Rapid Prone at the 300 yard line with the optic, a personal best. I have never been able to do that with iron sights.
Slow Prone:
At 600 yards, this is where it has been painful to me with the iron sights. Vertical stringing, and also wind has been the issue. (NO it is not my breathing) The problem is, as stated above, I lose the front sight in the aiming black. My eyes (a personal thing) are not capable of it. I am sure I could try glasses, different prescriptions for different lighting conditions, etc. Well....with the 4 power scope I was able to put up a 99-3X on the second string of slow prone. The first string I put up an 89, but that was me refining my zeros. The optic has surely helped immensely at the 600 yard line.
When I first started with Appleseed, I was told that the scope does not really make a difference, and if it does, it is marginal. I have not qualified at the 25 meter AQT with an iron sighted rifle yet. 5 full Appleseed events, and the 5th one I swapped to my scoped 10/22 and put up several 220+ qualifying scores.
KD with Appleseed, I was able to qualify with a scoped AR, but felt "less than" and wanted to do it with iron sights. I was able to do that, several times with my AR15, at our HUGE KD targets. That gave me some confidence, but I have plateaued with my skill level with the iron sights.
What is the purpose of the sling on the rifle? I'll quote Ken Roxburgh, from Team Remington, an NRA High Master shooter, and Distinguished Rifleman. "The purpose of the sling is to provide stability for the rifle, and to instill CONFIDENCE in the shooter"!
I liken that statement to the optic on the rifle. FOR ME, it has instilled CONFIDENCE in the shooter.
So, for anyone reading this, that has been struggling with the iron sights, you the reader have options. Here is what I see those options as:
1. Change nothing and continue to struggle
2. Buy some gadgets that are out there and have surely worked for a LOT of people. Bob Jones diopters for the rear peep, Specialty Shooting glasses for different yard lines and lighting conditions
3. Switch to an Optic
I firmly believe that the optic will not help one that does not have the fundamentals of marksmanship mastered to at least an amateur level. It may in fact HURT one's scores, due to not having the fundamentals. The Optic will reveal a lot more, in terms of breathing and pulse.
BUT, if you the reader, are like me and have been struggling with the irons, and are also on a journey to shoot better than just 4 MOA, you may want to make that shift as well. I know a few instructors in here, that have also swapped to an optic, and their scores have risen as well.
I found myself wishing yesterday, that for the standing at 200 yards I would like to still use iron sights, and then swap to an optic at 300/600. LOL Unfortunately, the rules do not allow that. But it is interesting that the aiming black is designed to appear the same to the shooter at 200/300 and 600 yards. The targets just GROW significantly, but the aiming black appears "about" the same size.
So.....what has my issue been, I mention what I have been experiencing, "losing the front sight in the aiming black". At 200, my hold with irons is typically 6 oclock. Sight Picture has been my issue. Sight alignment is critical with the iron sights, and I am by no means claiming that I am a "master" at sight alignment with the irons. BUT, with a scope, and a repeatable cheek weld, sight alignment is already done by the crosshairs. Sight picture, that is where the optic has helped immensely! I can hold on a repeatable place, repeatedly!
CMP Garand/Springfield/Vintage matches, I will continue to shoot the iron sight at. These are 200 yard matches, and I can hold pretty good at 6 o clock, for a good sight picture. For mid range shooting, I am very happy the rules have changed to allow an optic. Keep in mind, I am not shooting on anything greater than 4 power. I cannot see the scoring rings, but I can repeatedly hold center mass.
As always, my posts are "for what it's worth", take what you need and leave the rest type stuff.
I have to concur with some of your points. I too have an issue with my eyesight and iron sights, though it is a little different. My eyes switch between being left and right eye dominant while using iron sights. I have tried a couple of different ocular occluders with varying results. I have started putting scopes on all of my rifles and have started seeing a large improvement.
One point I think should be made, as I was originally told differently, TOO much scope is a bad thing. I have tried shooting 25yds with 10x and 100yds with 16x. as you mentioned, movement becomes very distracting. I would 3-4x at 25yds and no more than 6x at 100.( although I do shoot 100yds KD at 10x - because I don't want to change my settings between stages)
Crbobjones2, great point!
Rules for SVC rifle, limit one to a 4.5 power optic, more than adequate to engage targets at 600 yards.
I also dabble in some long range shooting, unknown distance stuff, using the reticle to measure targets in MOA/MIL and coming up with the range and then making the shot. In that discipline, 1000 yards, I range on my max power *this is dependent on the focal plane of the optic, whole nother topic*, my max power is 16X. I range on 16X, but make my shots on 10/11X 99% of the time.
Way too much movement seen in the optic at greater magnification.
So excellent point, take that shot at the lowest possible magnification you can. This rang true for me, when I finally was able to earn a Rifleman score on the 25 meter AQT. I shot the entire target at 4 power or less. Less is better, especially at 25 meters, or under 400 yards.
R/
Chris
All too often well meaning people insist on irons as the only way.
I tried it. In prone my contacts shifted and the rear peep goes from a circle to an oval. I was misserable and frustrated. Put glass on all my rifles and now I enjoy shooting rifle.
Glass does not make the shooter. It 'can' simplify sight alignment. You still need proper position, NPOA, and the other 5 steps of taking the shot.
As noted, it does come with some disadvantages. Rifle fit and eye relief become even more important. You must be cautious about chasing the shot. Movement get amplified to the point of snatching the trigger and poor follow through.
Iron sight shooters do impress me - but I don't think any less of someone using glass.