I shot a KD event in Tennessee last summer and did not score as well as I wanted. My sole competitor out shot me using Wolf Gold ammo. We were both shooting AR 15s. Now his 20 year youth age advantage and military training may have had an effect, but I still think my American Eagle 55 grain ammo may have been a factor.
So, now I am planning to shoot another KD event in Alabama and would like to improve on my ammo choice. Wolf Gold is cheap and seems reliable but has any one done any accuracy testing with it? PSA has Speer 64gr Gold Dot for $10/20 reds and this seems like a possibility. I want the best accuracy without going to $1 a shot match grade ammo. Suggestions? Thanks for the help.
For AS KD, I pretty much always used m855 or m193 in whatever surplus deal I could find. But, the only way to know what will shoot in your rifle is to test it. Without knowing the twist we can't even make general suggestions.
I have qualified KD twice with 55gr Reloaded ammo. about 40 cents a round.
The misses were my fault not the ammo. Your federal should be fine. Lord knows it better then the Cheap 22 stuf we all use for regular appleseeds.
Good luck.
Thanks for the input. I am shooting a PSA standard rifle, 1 in 7, with a CMC trigger and free float tube. And I realize the operator is the problem. But, I am just trying to minimize the other factors.
I shoot KD regularly. I use my ar-15 out to 500 yards and shoot Federal Lake City m193 55gr. I do not use American Eagle or any other than Federal Lake City. Just my, and my rifle's, preference.
I did a kd event last year. Scored rifleman 4 times. All with wolf gold 55gr.
My first kd qual (2 years ago) was with wolf gold.
I also shoot American eagle and do fine at distance.
MOst modern ammos (including the cheaper steel cased) will shoot adequetely well out of a quality rifle.
I have even shot 1980's 5.45 Russian surplus at a KD and got 2 moa groups.
An exception to this is US M855 manufactured since about 2003. The QA seems to have gone downhill. Whereas other M855 such as PMC and PRvi Partizan is sub two MOA.
Frequently, the limiting factor in accuracy is the barrel.
My question to you at this point is what is a standard PSA barrel?
I can tell you that not all PSA barrels are created equal. Some of PSA's rifles/uppers have the disclaimer "Rifle is expected to group within military specifications" there for a reason.
My experiences mirror DEH's. We shoot a lot of KD in the Tennessee valley.
If you're struggling at KD, look at these:
1. Fundamentals. A good session of ball & dummy can help diagnose and sort out issues. If you're dry firing with a flinch, buck, or jerk, it's not going to help you. Only effective dryfire reinforces good habits.
2. Validating the come up data for your rifle. Confirm your come ups the way you shoot - prone with sling, not a rest, block, or bag.
3. Materiel issues. Confirm your scope has no cant. Is everything properly tight, including the barrel nut? Is there damage to the crown? I own several PSA barrels and an happy with most of them. Their Premium line is excellent. Others vary from okay to blech.
The best ammo cannot compensate for poor fundamentals or a barrel with issues. Solid fundamentals and a quality barrel well make supposedly cheap ammo shoot well. My one perfect KD score was shot with surplus Soviet steel case ammo packed in 1980 from a boring AR assembled from spare parts and a used 3-9 scope. (If I sound like a tightwad, you got the right idea! :) )
Rusty
P.S. I invite you to sign up for our KD at Talladega in May. The CMP marksmanship park offers shooting out to 600 yards with no walking with their electronic target displays! ^:)^
(Edited to correct my dumbphone-related errors)
Thanks Rusty and everyone else for the advice. I am painfully aware of the fundamentals and my need to practice them. I do plan to attend the Talladega KD in May. And I would like to stop by the range next week just to see the set up.
So, now I need to practice, dry fire, check my equipment, improve my eyesight, and quit shaking.
Quote from: MikeMS on March 17, 2016, 09:40:59 AM
So, now I need to practice, dry fire, check my equipment, improve my eyesight, and quit shaking.
You also need to improve your attitude. You need to start thinking that it is like you to shoot well at KD. If you do well on an AQT, the main thing keeping you from doing well at KD is in your head. I have seen this many times and practicing shooting won't solve it.
You always need to check your equipment before an event and if you can't quit shaking through holding drills you will need to use the shaking as a tool rather than a reason to "not perform."
Quote from: DEH on March 17, 2016, 06:47:52 AM
An exception to this is US M855 manufactured since about 2003. The QA seems to have gone downhill. Whereas other M855 such as PMC and PRvi Partizan is sub two MOA.
I got my first distinguished points shooting M855 Green tip for the SAFS at the Eastern Creedmoor Games in 2013. I think that batch was date 2006 or 2007. While it was definitely not as good as hand loads or match loads it was around 2 moa ammo. None of my stash is as new as 2003 so, that was my only experience with it.
Mike
Quote from: jmdavis on March 17, 2016, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: DEH on March 17, 2016, 06:47:52 AM
An exception to this is US M855 manufactured since about 2003. The QA seems to have gone downhill. Whereas other M855 such as PMC and PRvi Partizan is sub two MOA.
I got my first distinguished points shooting M855 Green tip for the SAFS at the Eastern Creedmoor Games in 2013. I think that batch was date 2006 or 2007. While it was definitely not as good as hand loads or match loads it was around 2 moa ammo. None of my stash is as new as 2003 so, that was my only experience with it.
Mike
Depends on the batch.
I'll offer a slightly different perspective. For me, I always want to shoot the best ammunition I possibly can anytime I shoot, and the reason is simply the fact that I learn more, and learn faster, with ammunition that goes where I point the rifle.
This is obviously less of a concern in the less stable positions like standing and possibly sitting, where my wobble may far exceed any inaccuracies of my ammunition, but especially when shooting prone if a shot lands somewhere other than where I intended it to, I can't learn anything if I'm wondering "was it me or my ammunition?"
In my experience M193 style ammunition usually shoots to around 3 MOA in an accurate rifle. Match grade ammunition usually shoots to 1 MOA or less. With match grade ammunition I know that if a shot lands more than 1 MOA or so outside of where I called it, I made an error I didn't see, and can correct it. With less accurate ammunition this margin is much, much larger, and I can easily break a perfect shot and have it come up on the target well outside of where I expected it to go. Remember that 3 MOA at 400 yards is a full foot. I find this extremely frustrating, and counter productive to improving my marksmanship skills.
When you consider the costs of preparing for an event, paying for the event, traveling to the event, and so on, the cost of match grade ammo is insignificant. Event fees, food, travel, gas, maybe a hotel room, they all add up, and if I'm spending hundreds of dollars to be at an event, I can't imagine why I would want to save 20 or 30 cents per round by using cheap ammunition. KD events vary in round count, but trying to save money by using cheap ammunition seems counter productive to me.
From what I see, cheap M193 ammunition runs about 30 cents per round right now. Last I checked M855 was running about 40 cents per round. Decent match grade ammunition looks to be about 55 to 60 cents per round. I'm looking at 75 grain match grade Wolf Gold and/or 77 grain match grade Freedom Munitions when I do that comparison. I can't see why I would want to shoot M193 or M855 when I can use decent match grade ammunition for 20 cents per round more.
http://ammunitionstore.com/products/223-5-56x45-ammo-75gr-hpbt-match-wolf-gold-1000-round-case.html
Appleseed: Rack grade rifle, surplus ball ammo, rock solid fundamentals, making hits out to 500 yards. You can do it in a t-shirt, a suit, or a fancy shooting jacket.
Don't overcomplicate or gold-plate it. ;-)
I have not had very favorable results using 55g at ranges much beyond 300. My preference would be 69g SMK's, which have worked very well for me out to 600, (after that forget it) in a 1/7 twist barrel.
I scored on a KD using cheap American Eagle 556. The few misses I had was my fault.......
Quote from: Rusty on March 18, 2016, 09:21:43 AM
Appleseed: Rack grade rifle, surplus ball ammo, rock solid fundamentals, making hits out to 500 yards. You can do it in a t-shirt, a suit, or a fancy shooting jacket.
Don't overcomplicate or gold-plate it. ;-)
I don't want to be controversial, but is the point to "do it" or is the point to improve marksmanship?
There is no question it can be done with a rack grade rifle and surplus ball ammo. I've done it and I'm sure you have too. There is also no question (in my opinion at least) that if you're shooting a 4 Moa rifle/ammo you can't learn much from most of your shots. Such a huge dispersion of shots means I can make all kinds of small errors and never see them, as they are obscured by the width of the shot group the rifle is capable of. With a more accurate rifle and ammo I can see these small errors and correct them.
I'll offer a real example from my own shooting. Last year I realized that I was pulling some shots right when pulling the trigger. What was happening was my grip was too loose, and when squeezing the trigger my hand would sympathetically contract and pull shots about a minute right. Not on every shot, but often enough. This error was easy to see in my shot groups with an accurate rifle, and it was easy to correct. With a rack grade rifle and ball ammo odds are that small occasional error would have been lost in the 4 Moa dispersion of the group and I'd have never seen it.
Is it not worth correcting these small errors too? No question a rifleman can hit targets if they can hold a 4 Moa target, but if the goal is to improve marksmanship, better is better.
It boils down to asking the question, what is the purpose of Appleseed?
There's nothing wrong with pursuing excellence in shooting. However, we aren't high power shooters. We are field shooters. We don't let perfect get in the way of good enough.
We are history and Heritage program sharing the message of Liberty. Shooting is how we get people to the live to hear history. We want to get people to Rifleman, Inspire them to volunteer, and put an orange hat on their heads so they can do likewise! :)
When is your next Appleseed? What Strike well you tell? We have IBC's coming up in Alabama in April and July. You're welcome to come on out. :)
Please excuse grammar or syntax errors as I'm dictating this on my phone.
Rusty,
Please don't define who "We" are. Because "we" are not "thee."
Agrivere has offered some good advice that will help people to be better shooters. Having shot with him a number of times in the past few years, I can say that in Appleseed terms he would make one of the best marksmanship instructors in the program.
Because here is the absolute bottom line, a good precision shooter will beat the 4 moa field shooter every day on paper, on steel, and on popups. The same is true with pistol. Hits count, sure. But good hits count more than marginal ones. Reaching 4 MOA isn't the end of training.
Shaming good shooters because they focus on the act of shooting and are trying to help others to be better shooters rather than story telling is wrong and one of the reasons that many good people have left the program.
For the record, I helped teach the first ever IBC in Alabama and Shoot Bossed the first event at Steel City, both back in 2009.
Here's what Crossman had to say,
"After all is said and done, successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman."
~ Capt. E.C. Crossman (The Book of the Springfield)
Agrivere, you're more than welcome to come border raid here in Alabama. There's plenty of opportunity to advance to a red hat if you choose. :)
Quote from: sluggo on March 18, 2016, 09:26:26 AM
I have not had very favorable results using 55g at ranges much beyond 300. My preference would be 69g SMK's, which have worked very well for me out to 600, (after that forget it) in a 1/7 twist barrel.
69's work well out of 1/9-1/7. They were the absolute most accurate bullet in my Bushmaster HBAR (1/9). But the only way to shoot them economically is to reload.
With the 1/7 that rifle could do well with Black Hills Blue Box 75's for available ammo. I shot a personal best score and offhand at a match a few weeks ago with them and a 1/7.7 barrel. 188 for offhand and a 470 total for a Navy style match (20 offhand, 10 sitting, 10 rapid prone, and 10 slow prone). 77 handloads will shoot better in my rifle but sometimes you have to go with what you have on short notice.
But I really think that the original poster needs to spend more time thinking that it is like him to shoot well on the KD. I've always thought that KD was easier than 25m. It's a huge target and if you can perform at 25m, you already have the physical skills to perform well at KD.
Pretty nice shooting-
Yes I typically reload 69 SMK's in IVI brass crunching down on Varget- Going to try some benchmark this year.
My experience with ARs has been that barrel twist/ammo matching will make a HUGE difference. I've spent a fair amount of time and money trying to work up the "perfect" load for about five different ARs (yes, one load that would work very well in all). My ignorance of barrel twist being a major factor in such about drove me to the point of insanity.
My wife and I had rifles with 1:9 twist barrels and I found it relatively easy to find something that shot well. I was not looking for one hole shot groups, just decent 2 MOA or better. As Rusty points out, this is beyond the scope of Appleseed, but I'll tie it back in shortly. It's just a data point.
Testing was at 100 yards from a Caldwell Lead Sled. I had hundreds of loads that were tested over the period of a couple years. Different powders, amounts of powder, different projectiles, different loading techniques, etc. It was hard to find something that shot just awful out of the 1:9 twist barrels. There were lots of them that weren't acceptable to me based on my 2 MOA goal, but most kept everything on a cheap paper plate at 100 yards. I had very few that were over 6 MOA. Projectiles ran the gamut from top of the line to mechanically pulled (marks on the bullets). All were in the 52 to 55 grain range, mostly because that was what was cheapest to load.
My father bought an AR because he saw all the fun we were having. He bought a 1:7 twist, though I didn't know that mattered at the time. I couldn't get "anything" to work with that rifle. Now, I was doing well to keep those same loads on a paper plate at 100 yards. I finally considered the barrel twist and realized the difference. We bought some 77 grain Noslers and loaded them up. The difference was amazing! I now have several loads that will consistently shoot under 2 MOA in that rifle. But, you either have to reload or buy some high priced stuff to do it.
Those 77 grain loads also made a Ruger Mini 14 finally shoot minute of pie plate. Lo and behold, it has a 1:7 twist barrel, too. It has major mechanical issues due to age, though. So don't take that as a Mini-14 slam.
I now have a 1:8 twist barrel. It seems to be less picky than the 1:7, but I haven't spent the time with it that I have the others.
I highly recommend 1:9 twist barrels to Appleseeders that ask my input when buying/building an AR. They are just easier to find decent ammo for at a reasonable cost. There's nothing wrong with a 1:7, as long as you understand that it prefers a heavier projectile or don't care about group size.
In my father's case, we just got him a 1:9 twist barreled upper for routine shooting and use the 1:7 when we want to use the heavier stuff. For some reason, he didn't want to just give me all the 55 grain ammo. **)
http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/pair-barrel-twist-rates-ammo/ (http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/pair-barrel-twist-rates-ammo/)
this may help someone too.
I had no idea my post would result in some many responses and such good information. It is great to have the variety of opinions on bullet weight, barrel twist, technique and mental attitude. I will consider all of this and put it to use later this month in Talladega.
Rusty, I look forward to meeting you at the KD.
Thanks to all!
I like HXP M2 ball in spam cans from the CMP.
Wait...
I think I might be off topic.
;D
I haven't had much luck with pairing twist rate with bullet weight in my AR. It's a LMT 1:7.5 5R barrel which should put it in 75-77gr territory, and yet it likes Lake City M193 (55gr)the best out of the readily available surplus ammos - M193 gets about 1.5 MOA off bags. More than good enough for Appleseed certainly. It actually does worse (~2MOA) with M262 77gr which is the match ammo for the M12 special purpose rifle. But it does best (repeated 0.5MOA groups with a big scope and bags) with Federal Gold Medal 77gr, which has the exact same projectile as Black Hills M262. Go figure.
Guns like to eat what they like to eat. They're like small children in that regard.
Are you shooting real Mk 262 Mod 1 or one of the various copies? Real Mk 262 is a bit hit or miss on accuracy. It's never really bad but some lots are better than others, and many different match ammo choices will regularly outperform it, as you have found. Out to 100 or even 200 yards 55 gr ball ammo can do okay, but as you move to 300 yards and beyond wind effects can be much more of a factor and the 77's will outperform every time. Creedmoor makes a newish match ammo that shoots real well, and is often a bit cheaper than black hills. Black hills of course makes good stuff and actually makes the ammo for the AMU Service Rifle team, which is essentially similar to Mk 262 only held to MUCH higher accuracy standards.
Good question. I guess I don't know 100% for sure. What I shot was made by Black Hills with 77gr. SMKs and I think was labeled Mk262 or Mk262 mod1. It had non-polished cases & sealed primers and "looked" military. It was not a winner, so I never really followed up on it.
I will give Creedmoor ammo a try. They have several offerings that look interesting. I don't really think I can improve on the 77g FGMM but I might be able to save a few bucks for the same performance. The .308 Scenar loads look interesting too. I'm shooting 155 Amaxes in my AR10 and accuracy is good but the Scenars will reach farther.
For 400 yards, I don't worry much about the specific ammo on a target that is as big as the D Target. 55's usually shoot fine in everything. But when testing ammo, I try to shoot from a sling and compare to a standard. So, I know that in reduced matches the difference between 75gr Black Hills blue box and my Nosler 77 loads is about 1/2 MOA. But that 1/2 MOA may result in a significant number of points.
Most of my KD Appleseed shooting was using IMI M855 and old Black Hills White Box seconds 68gr. Either shot just fine, but neither would turn in a clean for me at 400 yards. The rifles were a Bushmaster HBAR A2 1:9, and a 16" Midlength Carbine 1:8.
For the M1 I shot HXP 72 as the best. For the M1A I found German 147gr Nato MEN to be the best of what I tried (as good as Federal Gold Medal Match in my rifle).
What Agrivere and JMDavis have said!
Especially JM Davis' point about "It is like me to shoot X's, or V's in this case"!
Lanny Bassham's book, would be something anyone could benefit from reading.
OK, to the OP....
I feel as Aggrivere has mentioned, that with all the logistical costs involved with simply getting to a KD, why skimp on the ammo?
Qualified KD at Ramseur with a scoped AR, shooting handloaded 69 Sierra Match Kings. Did very well with that setup.
Got into NRA High Power and obtained the rifle needed for that type of shooting, an A2 match grade upper. Shot handloaded 77's at a KD and did very well with the iron sights.
Have attended two subsequent KD's with my M1 Garand and have yet to qualify. DO NOT know why either! All I can blame it on is the HXP surplus ammo I am shooting. During CMP Games matches I am capable of putting up 95+'s in slow prone, but that is at the 200 yard line. 400 yard line with KD on that BIG target I had like 5 shots at best in the black.
Back to the above "I know it is like me to shoot X's"! Conversely, "It is not like me to shoot 5's or misses"!
I know I am capable of better, so....am leaning towards the ammo. I ran this buy some high power shooters that have experience shooting across the course with the M1 Garand.....and NONE of the ones I spoke to use surplus BALL ammo for that shooting. It will just not be competitive.
So, as has been mentioned, ammo can make a BIG difference. Having all shots on paper can tell a story (if they are all on paper). 400 yards things tend to open up a bit with surplus ammo. I'd suggest a Hornady 75 grain factory loaded ammo if you do not reload. It is good ammo, and will serve one well at the 300 and 400 line.
As for me, my next KD will be of course with the M1 Garand, the next rifle I wanted to get over that KD hurdle, but it will be with 175 grain SMK handloads.
All GOOD stuff, and everyone that has posted is in different stages of their marksmanship journeys. I'd ask all to keep that in mind, before flying off the handle with a knee jerk response. I have personally met and shot with/scored for, Aggrivere and JMDavis. Trust me when I say "They know EXACTLY what they are about".
I'm glad that Aggrivere has taken on the "become an instructor" role. Not sure how he will fit it all in his schedule, cause like I said....I know HOW SERIOUS he takes this marksmanship stuff.
Just like everything else, Your Mileage May Vary, take what one needs and leave the rest. But.....at some point one may just re-visit, to "get the rest", all in time.....all in time.
R/
Chris
Chris,
I've not taken the time to read all of the previous posts. I don't typically entertain the various marksmanship-related threads here, except to discuss the form and function of what and why we teach what we do.
That said, I've seen the ideology that you express above presented a number of times, by a number of people, many of whom I have the utmost respect for. The ideology I refer to is the notion that in order for someone to get the most out of any training endeavor, they must be using the 'best ammo' and the 'best rifle' available.
I don't cotton to such ideas. I find them to be misguided.
In order to make consistent hits on a man-sized target at 500 yards, with surplus ammo and a 'rack grade' rifle, the marksman must have exceptional skill. S/he must exhibit near-perfect form, and exercise the six steps to firing the shot with such predictability as to be near second nature.
Using a rifle that isn't 'match grade', or using an ammunition that isn't 'match grade', does NOT detract from the training opportunity; in my estimation, it enhances it.
Think of it this way- if a given rifle/ammo combo are capable of, at best, a 2 MOA standard, the marksman must be capable of better than 2 MOA in their execution of the shot in order to reach the limit of their capability.
Working towards the limits of the rifle/ammo capability is a worthy goal of the Rifleman. It places the emphasis squarely where it should be- on the shooter.
Is it easier for a shooter to engage a man sized target at 500 yards with a match grade rifle and match grade ammo? Certainly. However, it is the capability of making those consistent hits with sub-optimal equipment that marks a Rifleman.
A Rifleman does not need sub-moa accuracy for 4 MOA shooting. In almost all cases, the shooter is the weakest link the rifles capability. We teach folks how to be better shots with the equipment and ammo they bring; we encourage them to build their skills to the point where surplus ammo and a rack grade rifle aren't a hindrance to engaging those targets.
O0 O0 What he said!!
Going down the road of the best in equipment plus can be expensive.
It also comes down to you may only be able to hit with a great rifle ammo combination. In other words, you can't hit with ordinary rack grade level equipment. Which isn't what Appleseed is about.
Some of the ammo being sold as surplus failed pass the standard. That is why it is for sale. That ammo may not hold 6 or 8 MOA. In addition the ammo available from cmp these days as surplus is mixed lot loose ammo. Some of it may be accurate and some may be inaccurate. You know such things in the same way that you know your rifle. By testing it and using it.
I am reminded of a series of KD events at a Bootcamp some years ago. The first few days were instructor only and it showed me some things. One of those things is that MANY people who should know better don't have a zero for the ammo they are using. This might work out fine at 100 and 200 yards. But the wheels start to fall off at 300 and it only gets worse at 400.
The bottom line is that you cannot be sure of even a 4 MOA performance with unknown ammo and poor equipment. I should note that the "rack" grade M1s and m14s I see many apple seeders shooting these days are actually accurized versions of rack grade rifles. Some of them cost over $3000. They look like rack grade guns and don't have composite bedding, but they are wood bedded and finely tuned.
If one wants to shoot the cheapest ammo and gun he can get, great. But we really need to avoid criticizing those people who don't. If the man can't do it, the rifle won't. And if the rifle and ammo can't do it the man won't. It's a system, and when you break part of a system performance suffers and the system may fail.
Recently High power shooters discovered an issue with some lots from a bullet manufacturer. I had a box if 1000 from the suspect lot. There were accuracy issues and when I started weighing bullets I discovered that the weight deviation was over 2.5x what it should be in a box of 1000. Now these rounds might have held 4 MOA, but that level of accuracy makes you a loser in competition.
I will offer the advice that a couple of the best shooters in the country offered me when I started to experience these issues. Don't assume that you are the problem. Check your equipment for loose action screws, sights, scope mounts etc. Check the accuracy and consistency of your ammo.
I do comment on marksmanship threads because it is the thing that draws people to Appleseed and it is the practical value of the program. There is nothing wrong with shooting 4 MOA and being happy with it. But there is nothing wrong with shooting 2 MOA and being unhappy with it. We each value different things.
But precision has never been the adversary of the combat rifleman. Hathcock and Land didn't think so and some of the best combat soldiers I have ever known shoot competitively. What's more they are excellent at it.
Applied Appleseed KD from back when I could see distance.
Standard M1A open site and Ball surplus ammo from the 60's. Not winning any competition, but could be used to defend Liberty!
And thanks to JMDavis for the lessons.
Target was a 9" long piece of 6" pipe stuck in the gravel at 400 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m77M5eJsHoo
Well...
Good stuff here. Yesterday at an EIC match (full distance), at the 600 yard line I was able to put up a personal best. 99-3X!
That was with handloaded 80 grain SMK's. Would the 75 grain Federals get me the same performance? Doubtful.
I will say that to my post above, that HXP ammo (lot and year) is not working "for me".
Also, as stated above, I know what I am capable of, and when I am unable at 400 yards (mid range) to place 10 shots on that HUGE Appleseed target, something is definitely wrong.
In my case, it is the ammo. Rifle is accurate, new barrel. Shooter is most definitely capable of 4 MOA on the HUGE Appleseed target. It is the process of elimination.
Again, for what it is worth. If readers are happy with 4 MOA performance, great! As stated, many of us are striving for much better than that.
R/
Chris
Your 1/7 may not like the 55 grain bullets, especially out past 200 or 300, or maybe it's just that particular brand of ammo. Privi makes a 69 and 75 grain match ammo that aren't a buck per round. I've never shot any but did buy some of the 75s to hand load as that's all I could find at the time. I never shot them past 100 but they gave decent groups and appeared to be decent quality from my unscientific examination. It wouldn't be federal gold medal match ammo but it doesn't carry the same price tag either.
I don't think there is any reason whatsoever to believe that a 1/7 rifle will have problems with 55 gr. bullets any more than any other rifle. Twist rates are not a "matching" process where there is an ideal twist rate for a given bullet weight. Rather it is a matter of sufficiency - do you have a fast enough twist for your bullet, muzzle velocity and atmospheric conditions? If the answer is "yes" then the twist rate is not a problem and should be dismissed as a cause of inaccuracy. You may of course have any number of other unrelated accuracy problems.
The only downside to a fast twist rate in direct fire arms (not artillery) is a TINY amount of arbitrary deflection at the muzzle due to difference between center of mass and center of shape of the bullet. This difference between two practical twist rates is usually on the order of .01 MOA - usually unmeasurable, even in a benchrest context. In a military context, where more twist ensures your gun works in nasty atmospheric conditions (e.g. -20F on the Alaska coast), fast twist is a no brainer.
As an amusing anecdote, one of the most surprisingly accurate rifles I own is a Browning 1886 in .45-90 with a factory 1/20" twist barrel. Once you learn to deal with the 8lb trigger (which isn't so insane on a dangerous game lever action I guess) it'll shoot sub-MOA with no issue. But it's the most insanely over-twised rifle you can imagine. My typical stopping load is a 400gr bullet over a full case of H322 going 2100 ft/s. In my normal atmospheric conditions, that gives a Miller stability factor of about 6.5. You could halve the barrel twist rate, and it would still be stable. It holds its accuracy out to as far as I've managed to get it on paper (600y).
Just goes to show you can never have too much twist (except on an artillery piece) :D
1/20 was the standard wrist for .45's with up to 500 gr bullets. With a case of Black powder and the bullet loaded out it I'll stabilize a 520 most of the time. My target BP rifle in .45/70 was set up for 540+ gr Postel bullets and has a 1/16 twist.
Forgot to add that I MI also make 69 and 77 grain match ammo at a decent price as well. However, the best option for cheap match quality ammo is reloading but I know some don't want to mess with that.
I have a lot of experience shooting the M1 Garand both with light ball and match grade ammo. A Garand is more sensitive to light ball than an AR15 so while light ball is OK for some things it normally will not group from a Garand at long range. It takes high quality match grade ammo for tight groups at 500, 600, and 1000 yards. Shooting some ball once in a while is not a problem if you regularly shoot match ammo and have good zero's for each range. It becomes a problem when you only shoot ball because you,ll have no idea where the rifle is shooting. Then, when you miss you don't know why.
You need to shoot enough match quality ammo to have confidence in where the rifle will group at the range you are shooting at and, you need to have the skills to deliver well aimed shots and know when you shoot a bad shot.
how many rounds should one bring for a one day kd ? how many rounds for a 2 kd
tia
ConfederateRifle - in response to your question, I'm copying and pasting something TwoWolves said on a separate KD thread. Hope this helps; my personal opinion (which is worth exactly nadda) is to always double what you think you'll need:
You need 60 rounds to shoot 1 KD. That's 20 for sighters and 40 for the stages. If you think you are going to be able to shoot 4 rounds of KD, then you would need 240 rounds. At the KD's that I have attended, we where able to shoot 1 in the mourning and 1 in the afternoon. That's been my experience. -TwoWolves