Since there are so many of these rifles out there that do not cost a whole lot I just thought I would share what has worked for me on a 1944 carbine.
Installed Mojo Sights front and rear
Made a shim with a hole drilled in the center that is .025 thick that I placed under the sear to sightly drop it down, this helps give you a shorter trigger pull and you have to make sure to have more than .015 sear engagement. (also put some low strenght loctite on the screw) They sell prussian blue in automotive stores and you can put a dab on the sear to give you an idea of how much engagement you have.
Installed Huber Concepts Trigger
Using my dremel tool with the buffing wheel and Dupont #7 automotive polishing compound I polished the sear, sear engagement area on the bolt, took the bolt apart and polished all contact areas.
Next I attached a G.I. cleaning rod to my electric drill and using various sized gun cleaning kit mops with the dupont #7 the rifle chamber area proceeded to get shined up a little. Make sure the chamber has been cleaned of all cosmoline, I ended up using different sized bore brushes with cleaning patches soaked with rubbing alcohol.
At the range with Wolf Gold 150 gr and S&B 180 gr, the wolf would not give a good group for some reason, but the S&B ammo put out groups around 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards so it seems at least some of these rifles like the 180 gr bullets, I bought some ammo with the brass cases so later on I could test out some reloads to see what would work best. Testing the trigger pull on the rifle it seemed to break at somewhere from 3 3/4 to 4 pounds and the bolt now works nice and smooth. Some people wouldn't spend the extra money on this type of rifle but it only cost me $69.00, it is built heavy duty and there are spare parts available for it, who knows maybe next I might even try glass bedding it. 8)
Mine likes the Remington CoreLokt 180 grain .311 diameter (7.7 Jap/.303 British) bullet with a max charge of IMR 4320.
I have used S&B brass, but it's only good for a couple of reloads (poor quality).
Have had better luck with recycling the Winchester brass from a couple of their offerings.
I believe Nickle is using the PPU brass and you can get it from Graf's. PPU makes the Wolf Gold you mentioned.
Although pretty crude the Russians got their moneys worth from the Nagant. There are still thousands of them floating around over there giving good service. Not much to go wrong with them, and parts are relatively easy to make when needed. They are more than 'serviceable"
Sam
Quote from: SamD on November 23, 2008, 11:01:18 PM
Although pretty crude the Russians got their moneys worth from the Nagant. There are still thousands of them floating around over there giving good service. Not much to go wrong with them, and parts are relatively easy to make when needed. They are more than 'serviceable"
Sam
Yep. It's what I use for my truck gun. It's ugly, but I don't think I can break it.
Most of the top snipers of all time are Finns or Russians, and most of them used Mosins.
The top sniper, Simo Häyhä, used a Finnish M28 Mosin, with iron sights. 542 dead Russians, an average of about 5 per day.
The only serious drawback I see is speed.
Great article on Simo Here ---> http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp
Quote from: Nickle on November 25, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
The only serious drawback I see is speed.
Mosin's may be fired quite rapidly, by right-handed shooters, but not in the positions we teach at Appleseed. In the 'foxhole supported' position (forend supported by sandbags or something) hold the rifle against the shoulder with the right hand and reach over the rifle with the left hand and manipulate the bolt. The same technique works well with straight-bolt Mausers too.
I have a whole safe dedicated to my Mosins. They are vastly underated in the modern world of firearms, especially "tarted up" semi-autos.
Most will easily do the Rifleman's standard of 4MOA with mil-surp ammo. Stripper clips are available online.
If I could only have one Mosin Nagant, it would be a 91/30 type or the rifle version as opposed to the M38 or M44 carbines.
The longer barrel is much better for a "Rifleman". The short carbines are lots of flash n' bark but can be very handy for some applications. My carbines are general purpose truck guns and used for hunting in tight places.
I do a similar trigger job that kato does from here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/improvingm44carbines/index.asp
I don't recommend cutting the firing pin spring off a few coils as this author did. You will get a few misfires on some brands of mil-surp ammo with their hard primers. @)
In fact Wolff makes an even heavier than factory recoil spring to light those hard primers and to replace weak old springs you may encounter on some of these rifles.
You get better lock time too.
At the New Mexico IBC, Paul (ashrn03), showed us how to properly engage that seldom used, heavy and awkward safety. What, you have been doing it that way all these years? <:) While holding the rifle in your weak side hand, take the buttstock of the rifle and simply put it in the crook of your strong side arm. While the rifle is snug in the crook of your arm, simply reach up to the circular cocking piece/safety and grasp it with your thumb, middle and index fingers and pull back and twist to the left. This leverage method makes engaging the safety simple and fast.
A Front sight tool can be ordered here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/mosinfrontsight/index.asp
ashrn03 also calculated the amount of MOA per turn for this one of a kind homemade front sight tool. It is 5 MOA/turn.
ash03 also showed us that a guy trained with stripper clips gives up little to a guy using a detach mag. He proved it too!
Right on the kitchen floor at midnight! :~ 10 dummy rounds (2-5 round reloads from the stripper clips.) >:D It was actually with an 03 Springfield at that point.
And like Nickle just posted, ashrn03 showed us the non-AS position of the "foxhole supported position" shooting using a chair.
Hey, folks, it's about adapt, persist and overcome. Never know what situation you as a "Rifleman" might find yourself in. ;)
I'm going to check out some of the rifles over the weekend for potential purchase. Is there anything I need to know or be mindful of when selecting one or two?
Look in the bore to check the rifling.
If the rifling looks strong, as in fairly thick, with minimal throat wear, then it's probably good. Take a .30 cal cartridge and check for muzzle wear, too.
Now, some of the bores look dark, almost like looking into a sewer pipe. My experience has been that's OK, as long as the rifling is good.
The best Mosins, IMHO, are the Finn M39's. Stronger stock, better trigger, better sights. They're also getting harder to find. Mosin hex actions were made until the late 1920's - Finns used nothing else for their M39's (they never made their actions, they 'recycled' Russians, bought or captured). Anyway, the hex actions generally exhibit better craftsmanship, especially when compared to war-time round ones. Next best are the pre-war round actions. The actions made during the early years of WWII (1942, 43) were done in a hurry. Significant variations in groove diameter have been reported with these rifles. I'd be more inclined toward an arsenal reman (laminated stock, new varnish, fresh blue) than a beater. So, if I were in the market, I'd be interested in a 91/30 with a hex action and laminated stock. As you're probably aware, the short-barreled M44's and M38's kick hard and are really loud. (But the M44's bayonet does let you 'park' the rifle easily by sticking it in the ground ::)).
The guys at Box O Truth bedded a MN.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu75.htm
Quote from: Southern Grey on January 09, 2009, 02:08:44 AM
I'm going to check out some of the rifles over the weekend for potential purchase. Is there anything I need to know or be mindful of when selecting one or two?
Open bolt, draw back, while pulling trigger to remove bolt.
Bring cleaning rod, patches, solvent, small flashlight, business card with you to inspect. After a few patches, peer through barrel, using white business card on the opposide end to reflect light into the barrel. Flashlight useful to inspect chamber and throat.
You can find like-new bores, just look for them.
Didn't realize Huber made a trigger for the 91/30. The standard service trigger is a pig. Mine won't shoot the light ball but works well with Brown Bear 190+ FMJ. Aim Surplus has 180gr. Yugo brass cased for sale at 3.95/15rds I was thinkin' about gettin' some. Anybody tried it?
I bought 2 of the 91/30s. Both had bores and great shape, but one looked nearly new. Both seemingly had been revarnished and the bluing looked relatively fresh.
They both came with bayonet, sling and double pouch with tools and a double capped metal flask. What was its purpose?
What is the best method to use cleaning the barrel and actions after using corrosive ammo?
bores in great shape. I gotta get more sleep.
Regarding checking muzzle wear: the M44's have an attachment on the end of the barrel, I presume involved in the integral bayonet mount (it sure doesn't hide much flash!!). The muzzle of the barrel is actually about 2 inches down. I'm sure you would figure this out at least as quickly as I did...one day I decided to check the wear on my M44 by inserting a cartridge - as I had recently done to the multitude of glorious M1 Garands as CMP - and nearly had a heart attack when the shell headspaced on what I thought was the muzzle!! :o Only after investigating with a flashlight did I learn the truth. Hopefully, the real muzzle won't swallow a whole shell - though I can't think of how to gauge it.
Cheers!
Quote from: Southern Grey on January 16, 2009, 11:44:41 PM
I bought 2 of the 91/30s. Both had bores and great shape, but one looked nearly new. Both seemingly had been revarnished and the bluing looked relatively fresh.
They both came with bayonet, sling and double pouch with tools and a double capped metal flask. What was its purpose?
What is the best method to use cleaning the barrel and actions after using corrosive ammo?
The metal flask most likly contained bore solvent on one side and oil on the other.
As for corrosive ammo, the key is to clean it after you shoot it, not the next day or next week, THAT DAY.
I use the same methods for corrosive or non-corrosive with no issues. (note; everyone does it their own way, I'm not saying my way is better, just that it works fine on corrosive ammo, here is a link to a thread discussing Hoppes #9 http://mscg.yuku.com/topic/385 (http://mscg.yuku.com/topic/385))
#1, swab the bore with a patch wet with Hoppe's #9 bore solvent before leaving the range.
#2, Once at home, pull the bolt and brush the bolt face with hoppe's #9 then dip a bore brush in hoppe's #9 and give the bore and chamber a scrub set down rifle.
#3, fully scrub the bolt with a stiff brush dipped in bore solvent and then dry off and set aside.
#4, run a clean wet patch down the bore, followed by several dry, then a clean wet brush, followed by dry patches, continue until patches are clean and dry
#5, oil the chamber and bore with a patch lubed in a quality gun oil (the oil in the kit is fine, I use Kroil)
#6 wiped off bolt with an oiled rag, re assemble.
Prior to shooting, run a dry patch down the bore.
,
I started the cleaning disassembly this evening. One of the rifles has a difficult bolt to turn open when cocking. Is there anything I can do to smooth that problem out? I really am unsure why it is "dragging". Nor do I know for sure where.
For grins I greased the receiver and the reassembled bolt with some synthetic lube that I use at work. It really seemed to make little or no difference.
The other rifle I have exhibits much less resistance. I've compared the bolts and can see no discernable differences. Since the bolts are serialized to the rifles, I did not try to see if they were interchangeable.
Lastly, there is a screw at the knob end of the bolt that apparently attaches to the rear end of the firing pin assembly and has some spring tension on it. It has stake marks to keep it from being taken out through the knob, but easily screws forward although I did not fully remove it for fear I might undo something not easily redone.
Guys who are putting a .30-06 or .308 into the muzzle to check the muzzle erosion, remember:
The Mosin-Nagant (and the SKS and AK-47, for that matter, as well as 7.7mm Japanese and .303 Brit) uses a .311" diameter bullet, not the .308" of the '06 and .308Win.
So don't be surprised if a US-designed .30 caliber bullet doesn't stop on the rifling at the muzzle. Just make sure to use a 7.62x54R cartridge to check the muzzle, since the bullet diameter will be correct.
Re: the tough to turn bolt (while cocking)
I've now disassembled the bolt and have smoothed all mechanical contact surfaces on the bolt and the impingement points on the receiver and the bolt is no easier to open while cocking.
Now I'm wondering about the firing pin adjustment and whether the spring that loads/cushions the firing pin is the correct one or if the pin is simply turned into the spring creating way too much tension and causing the beveled contact faces to bind against one another.
The problem is in the cocking manuever as once the gun is cocked the bolt moves easily.
Have you compared the spring with the one from the other rifle yet?
No, but I will. That's a wonderful suggestion. I was thinking I was going to have to order a bolt assembly.
I disassembled both bolts and measured the firing pin springs at just contact and no compression. The spring removed from the "binding" bolt measured: 3.649" and the one from the other, smoother operating bolt was: 3.507", but it was not in as good of condition as the longer one.
So I reassembled the bolts swapping the springs and reinstalled the bolts in their respective receivers. Upon reinsertion the "binding" bolt still did and the other bolt worked almost as smoothly, but there was some additional resistance in the initial cocking/opening motion.
Then I exchanged the bolt assemblies. The one that was binding still is and the second rifle now operates nearly as smoothly as it did before I began these tests.
Is anyone aware of any dimensioned drawings that may be available online? I'm certainly beginning to think that the steel receiver is the culprit and before I simply hang this on the wall for decoration, I'd like to know why it failes to operate as it ought.
Not all countries were blessed with the talents of US war time production O0
But you have two rifles, one smooth one not. Think about the fun you would have if all you had was the rough one :o
Try this. Totally degrease the rifles bolts and receivers and "paint" all of the camming surfaces for cocking, and the locking lugs, with black marker or Dykem blue layout dye. Put the rifles together, minus the springs, and work the bolt once and remove each. Compare the marks on both rifles and deburr/polish/lap/blend the rough working bolt until the marks match the smooth running mosin.
SG,
I recalled that The Shot Gun News did an extended piece on the Nagants. Looked back and found Gunsmith Reid Coffield did a 8 part piece on sporterizing these rifles. He has a "ask the gunsmith" section in every issue.
Perhaps you could write to him C/O Shot Gun News for his thoughts.
Hope this might help you get it figured out.
EEL
The camming areas I have polished until they are as smooth as glass with surface conditioning wheels, probably removing .002" from each such face including the pivot on the front face of the bolt section that engages the receiver near the chamber and the other that retains the bolt handle in the horizontal position. The Lubriplate product that I have been using is a great friction reducing compound.
I locked the cocking handle's knob end in a vise and worked the bolt outside of the rifle and it moves (cocks) easily. I'm wondering if the receiver itself has a defect or has been damaged.
Watching a few of the videos on Youtube that show folks using their rifles, I noticed that most have trouble working that bolt and that the need for brute force is the alternative.
Although the suggestions are appreciated and I may yet follow up on them as time allows, I'm wanting to take this puppy to the range on Saturday and check it out, rough bolt action or no.
The other rifle was purchased for my wife. It was made in 1937. If the one that I selected for myself proves a pain to deal with, I'll just hang it on the wall and get another. For $70 it can be a usable rifle or an unique wall ornament. The only loss here is a barrel that appeared to be nearly new as though it may have been carried by the latrine orderly.
In the past few days while keeping the tough to cycle rifle at work and picking it up over the course of the day to go through the sight and dry fire practice, working the bolt literally hundreds of times, it has suddenly gotten easier to operate. It isn't as slick as the others, but it has certainly "loosened up"...sort of like getting grandpa back into shape.
I took our two rifles to the range and put about ten rounds each through them. The rifles performed well, but were consistently about 7 inches high at 25 yards with the rear sight bottomed out.
I've read where the rifling is 1:9.5. What would be the ideal projectile weight to fire then?
I ask because I'm going to get an adequate supply of ammo for my two new shooters and 147gr is $.1875/rd and 180gr is $.25/rd.
I also need to find a deal on some of the good (I've read most of the copy stuff is garbage) 5 round chargers for these guys as single loading a round at a time with the recessed chamber is a serious drag.
Quote from: Southern Grey on February 01, 2009, 09:11:25 PM
I took our two rifles to the range and put about ten rounds each through them. The rifles performed well, but were consistently about 7 inches high at 25 yards with the rear sight bottomed out.
I've read where the rifling is 1:9.5. What would be the ideal projectile weight to fire then?
I ask because I'm going to get an adequate supply of ammo for my two new shooters and 147gr is $.1875/rd and 180gr is $.25/rd.
I also need to find a deal on some of the good (I've read most of the copy stuff is garbage) 5 round chargers for these guys as single loading a round at a time with the recessed chamber is a serious drag.
With the 1:9.5 twist, you should have no trouble stabilizing the 180's, I'm using 175gr in my 1:10 twists with great luck. But I would use the cheaper 147gr for training.
I have heard two camps regarding the aftermarket strippers, some love the steel, some love the brass, but both agree that they need to be deburred, lightly polished, and lightly lubed. I went with some brass ones I bought on ebay, and after doing the above they work great.
edited to add...
Here is a video clip of fast Mosin loading. It is a bit different than the way I learned to load a stripper in a Mauser so you may find it interesting.
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/spanweb01/?action=view¤t=MosinChager2.flv (http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/spanweb01/?action=view¤t=MosinChager2.flv)
Hope that helps
As far as sticky bolts go, sometimes there is hard cosmoline built up in the area where the bolt lugs lock into, it is hard to see in there and can be a little tough to get out, I had used rubbing alcohol and just kept scrubbing away.
There is one inexpensive fix for the front sight on the 91/30, you take a piece of wire insulation or something like shrink tube that fits over the front sight nice and snug and make it slightly taller, maybe from 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch you would just have to experiment, one person had done this and filled in the top section with j b weld using a toothpick and just filed it down to where it was zeroed.
O0
If you are having trouble getting the rifle zeroed or grouping properly try it with the bayonet on. They were designed to be shot with the bayonet fixed.
Quote from: bedford on February 03, 2009, 08:55:07 PM
If you are having trouble getting the rifle zeroed or grouping properly try it with the bayonet on. They were designed to be shot with the bayonet fixed.
i thought that was directed towards the M44 Carbine? I've had no problems getting my 91/30 zeroed, and it didn't even come with a bayonet.
Quote from: Robb on February 03, 2009, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: bedford on February 03, 2009, 08:55:07 PM
If you are having trouble getting the rifle zeroed or grouping properly try it with the bayonet on. They were designed to be shot with the bayonet fixed.
i thought that was directed towards the M44 Carbine? I've had no problems getting my 91/30 zeroed, and it didn't even come with a bayonet.
Robb,
The M91/30 was issued with a bayonet, but NO SCABBARD.
The M91 was not normally issued with a bayonet scabbard either. Scabbards WERE issued with the Cossack rifle (combined with a sword and scabbard for it) and some of the carbines to shorten them up for horse work for specialty troops.
Russians used the "fix 'em and forget 'em" method of bayonet management. Remove them mostly to keep from hurting yourself while cleaning your rifle.
Many Russian bayonets never had a scabbard till they were captured by the Finns or some other country got them as war reparations.
Buckshot
http://www.gunsnammo.com/
This is a dependable source for Finnish Mosins.
Remember that the Finn version is a FAR better rifle than the $79 dollar Russian WWII manufactured rifles, and prices reflect this.
One more thing, if you don't already know, the antique section of the above page has Finn Mosins that need no Govt. paper work. The recievers are pre-1899 and are not considered firearms by the feds. ;)
Reading this - a couple of notes on Mosin Nagant...
Elevation accuracy...
A few postings on mil-surp boards indicate some of these (the M44 in particular) is more accurate with the bayonett folded out. I only have an M38 and I don't have a bayonette so I can't attest to this.
Also - the front sight post isn't adjustable and is generally considered too short; heat shrink tubing or electrical insulation is recommended to lengthen the post - then trim to get the elevation correct.
The safety...
Working with the safety on one of these quickly leads me to belive "friendly fire" casualties were not a concern for uncle Joe. Multiply that x 10 if you've tried to use the safety in COLD weather.
The rule of thumb is to wait until you are ready to shoot before you chamber a round and simply not use the safty.
FWIW: Here is a mod I found on improving the MN safety - looks like a Schmidt Rubin.
http://www.gswagner.com/mosin-nagant/safe/safe.html
Getting a shine on the bore...
Last fall I picked up an M38 cosmo-queen - similar to the 44, but without the 'built-in' bayonett.
It was cacked with cosmoline and that makes it hard to pick out "a good one" from the dozen others at the dealers.
I spent hours cleaning it - especially the barrel. I heated the stock and parts in the oven, used degreasers, poured boiling water down the barrel, then ran dozens of patches, wd40, break cleaner, and number9. After some extensive cleaning I was pretty certain it was as good as it gets.
Then I read about barrel electrolosis, so i figured I'd run an experiment just to see what it would get out.
I set-up an electrolosis rig on mine using an old cell-phone charger. This was well worth it - I could not believe the copper and crap that came out of that thing with the electrolois. What I thought was a "clean" barrel was actually pretty crappy.
I did this a couple of time - still getting cosmo out of the grooves - then cleaned it with number9 - the thing shines now.
QuoteA few postings on mil-surp boards indicate some of these (the M44 in particular) is more accurate with the bayonett folded out.
See, SG, you're overthinking this. The M-N was designed for the hands of a strong but illiterate peasant who would come charging out of the trench, bayonet at the ready, who
might get off a few shots before running someone through, or be mowed down by a machine gun.
Extend the bayonet, take a few deep breaths, and go charging toward the target while screaming at the top of your lungs. You'll be surprised how easy it is to work the bolt then. And you won't get crowded by other shooters after that, either.
LOL
can't help but think of the scene in "Enemy at the Gates" - they issue an MN 91/30 and 5 rds on a stripper to one guy, and give the next guy a 5rd stripper and tells him to follow the guy with rifle until he gets killed, then pick up his rifle....
Not the rifleman mentality I'm supposin'
I have read where people have used turpintine on a brush in the chamber to remove the laquer build up, has anyone heard of this before?
Quote from: 1911Ron on February 19, 2009, 09:55:10 PM
I have read where people have used turpintine on a brush in the chamber to remove the laquer build up, has anyone heard of this before?
Yes. Here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/eliminatesbs/index.asp
This is pretty close to what I do on my Mosins. Go easy in the chamber though.
Quote from: 1911Ron on February 19, 2009, 09:55:10 PM
I have read where people have used turpintine on a brush in the chamber to remove the laquer build up, has anyone heard of this before?
As mentioned in TaosGlock's referenced website article, I found acetone works much better than mineral spirits (paint thinner) when cleaning a Mosin chamber. Never tried turpentine on a chamber, but I've tried using it for cleaning sticky crud off other materials found acetone works better on metal. Of course acetone is a 'hot' solvent and will dissolve the lacquered stock finish too so be careful.
This advice was given to me for a badly sticking bolt by AZRedhawk44~
"Yeah, that bolt is a stinker to open on a fired case. You've got the lacquered steel cases that kinda melt into the chamber (or steel, or brass cases), the remaining cosmoline in the bore and chamber aren't doing anyone any favors, and the design of the rifle to cock the bolt right when you unlock the action isn't helping at all.
Get a gallon of deisel fuel and put it in a tall bucket; maybe even something like a flower vase or juice pitcher if you can pry one out of your girlfriend/wife's hands. Take the barreled receiver out of the stock, remove the bolt from the action and completely submerge the receiver and chamber section of the barrel into the deisel. Toss your bolt in there while you're at it. Let it sit for a few hours, then pull it out and dispose of the contaminated deisel fuel.
The deisel will open the pores of the metal and leach out the cosmoline that is causing stickiness for your cases.
Let the rifle air out for a few days, clean it with some Hoppes, wipe it down, oil it and take it out shooting again. I bet the bolt will feel a lot better.
I still have to give my bolt a good WHACK every now and again, especially when I shoot the greenish lacquered cases. Only got about 20 more rounds of that junk though, then it's nice Hungarian brass cased heavy ball. Still berdan primed, but much better than the other junk."
You really want to strip the bolt rather to clean the cosmoline out of the inside - not just toss it in whole. The surplusrifle.com MN article should show you how to strip it.
I've left an assembled bolt in break fluid cleaner overnight and it still had cosmoline inside them when I took it apart the next day.
Take them apart, clean it out of the spring and channels. On some rifles (SKS comes to mind) it's important to prevent slam fires.
You never really get rid of cosmoline - at least out of the stock. You'll find it bleed from the stock on some hot summer day.
While cleaning my heavily gunked up M1 from CMP, I discovered that Simple Green does a decent job of cutting the cosmoline and other accumulations.
The stock was heavily mire in the stuff, too. I used a grey surface condition pad and a strong solution of Simple Green and water to get the stock cleaned up. It took three sessions because once the stock was wet the deposits got hard to see. I cleaned for a while and let it dry, then cleaned it again.
After the final cleaning step, I let the stock dry nearly all day and worked it over with a new dry grey surface conditioning pad, smoothing out all the rough spots that I could. It was pretty smooth to the touch.
The next day I brushed it down with a heavy coat of linseed oil and hung it up for about 10 minutes after which I wiped off the excess with a clean cloth.
It cam out looking great.
Midway just put a boatload of the russian 880 round spam cans on sale too. This is my primary surplus rifle as I have a half ton(litterally!) of ammo for it and the current availability is still plentiful and cheap. :)
Ahh... cheap ammo.... 7.62x54R under 20c a round... about as cheap as the .308 bullets themselves these days - might be worth buying to take apart!
Sure, pull the bullets for some .30-06 or 7.5Swiss and fertilize the garden with the powder. But then again I don't know what to do with (live) berden primed brass.
(I wonder if surplus x54R is going to go the way of cheap of x39? :'()
7.62x54R bullets are .310 diameter, while 7.62 NATO, 7.5x55 (Swiss) and .30-06 bullets are .308 diameter.
Don't even THINK of using them in 7.62 NATO, .308 Win, 7.5x55 or .30-06.
They CAN be used in .303 British, 7.65 Mauser or 7.7 Jap ammo, as those are .311 diameter.
FWIW, I've used a bunch of .308 dia bullets in 7.62x54R ammo, and they work well (and accurately) enough.
Don't forget to sharpen the @%&* outa the spike bayonet too. !@#) !@#) !@#) ++)
Quote from: Nickle on March 13, 2009, 11:15:49 AM
7.62x54R bullets are .310 diameter, while 7.62 NATO, 7.5x55 (Swiss) and .30-06 bullets are .308 diameter.
Don't even THINK of using them in 7.62 NATO, .308 Win, 7.5x55 or .30-06.
They CAN be used in .303 British, 7.65 Mauser or 7.7 Jap ammo, as those are .311 diameter.
FWIW, I've used a bunch of .308 dia bullets in 7.62x54R ammo, and they work well (and accurately) enough.
I stand corrected.
I bit the bullet and purchased a scout scope mount and 4x scope from combat hunting today. The mount replaces the rear sight and doesn't require any cutting of the stock or drilling which I much prefer to avoid when dealing with a relic weapon. Scout mounts that fit in the rear sight holder just seem to make sense on all the Russian rifles. Let you guys know how it comes out.
Still finding cosmoline so I think you guys are right, it never goes away completely. But what can you expect after being soaked in it for fifty years.
There are two mounts that use the rear sight - a longer one and a shorter one.
Whichever, make sure you have it secure. They have a set screw that also buts against the reciever (not in it) - make sure this is extended enough when you sight it in - you can't get to it when the scope is on. You want to loctight this as well.
I'd like to hear how the 4x works - a lot of scopes aren't clear at 25yards (well, yeah, I do buy cheap scopes...)
Also - it's a bear to get the rear sight leaf back in - just so you know.
Im sure it is but that sight was planned for replacement the first day. Blade sights just arent something I would choose to have. That the mount also has a set of blades built is just gravy.
Be glad to let you know how it turns out. I am also planning to test that scope on a Saiga 308 using a simular if higher quality scout mount from Scout Scopes which also has a set of blade sights built in jic. The mount received excellent reviews from "Collecting and Shooting Military Surplus Rifles". http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2005/akscoutscopemnt/index.asp (http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2005/akscoutscopemnt/index.asp)
Link for mount:
http://161.58.206.244/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=scoutscopes&Category_Code=akscope (http://161.58.206.244/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=scoutscopes&Category_Code=akscope).
I am tinkering with a scout scope on a M91/30 that a family member installed (needs some readjustments and/or shimming)
From a standing position, with the scope on low power (like two) it is a very fast system to acquire targets. It seem more intuitive than a traditional scope.
The AK/Saiga scout scope set-up looks like a "chin weld" will be in order...
Have to wait and see on how it works out. Problems are fine just give me something to work out as long as the problems dont effect the pull-trigger-go-bang function.