All,
Figured I'd share my experience this past weekend with Black Hat Training Corps, and shooting the USMC UKD test. There is NO WAY I would have been successful this weekend, had I not already had a couple Project Appleseed KD events under my belt.
If your even remotely interested in doing this course, and live on the East Coast, I highly recommend giving Black Hat Training Corps a look. You will not be disappointed. Passing score on the USMC UKD is an 80. Passing score for this clinic was a 63. Reason score was lowered for passing, was we were shooting smaller targets than the USMC uses. Significantly smaller.
I qualified UKD with a score of 86. Here is the AAR:
This was an AWESOME clinic. First off, Mifflin County Sportsmens Club is a phenomenal range. My second visit to this range. First was a Project Appleseed Known Distance (KD) shoot on the right finger 500+ yard range. That was intimidating, but I persisted and did qualify with iron sights. This course was actually held on both fingers, the 500+ and the 1000+.
I registered for this clinic with BHTC, after that Project Appleseed event. We went out for dinner after shooting KD last November, and an Appleseed instructor was RAVING about BHTC and their 2 day Initial/Intermediate course, culminating with the USMC UKD qualification test.
A good friend of mine and I threw caution to the wind, and committed to doing that BHTC course. We contacted Freddy Wissing a week or so later, and got on the mailing list for the course. Then we started to prepare equipment, and ourselves for the course. Some of that preparation really paid dividends, some was useless. I'll start with what paid dividends:
One must be a master, or damn close with the Fundamentals of Marksmanship, if they are contemplating attending this course. I would recommend anyone considering, to shoot some known distance at AT LEAST 500 yards if possible prior to the course. Become familiar with your equipment and operating under pressure. In Project Appleseed (I am a full instructor with that Project), we teach the fundamentals. What is the difference between the Master and the Novice? The master has perfected the basics. I am by no means a "Master", but I am well on my way towards that goal, and this weekend with BHTC taught me ALOT! Make sure you understand the basics AKA fundamentals, or you will struggle. Natural Point of Aim, Trigger Control, Breathing, Calling your shots. If you can do that, the course will serve you well.
A rifleman faces 3 challenges. They are, Target Identification, Target Ranging, and Making the Shot. Prior to this course, I could "Make the shot" (fundamentals), but target identification and ranging are UKD toolsets, that I was a novice at.
Freddy, Chris, Dave and Chet (Hopefully I got the names correct), run a CLASS act. Although it is a complex art, they really managed to keep it simple, fast paced, and enjoyable. They employed Total Participant Involvement (TPI) very well, and framed the weekend nicely for us Saturday morning. Everyone knew what the expectations were.
Saturday morning we were greeted cheerfully by the instructors in the classroom. Instructor/Chaplain Chris led us with the morning prayer, and that was moving. Instructor Freddy led us all in the Pledge of Allegiance, and to my surprise EVERYONE said it LOUD and Proud! Safe Rifle rules, NPOA, trigger control were gone over but not in depth, again the expectation was that everyone in attendance already knows the basics. Emergency plan was laid out, Chet is an awesome dude "The Fixer" as he was referred to throughout the weekend. Time was spent on the Supported Strong Side Prone Position shooting. Something I needed to learn, as it is different off the Bi-pod than from unsupported prone. I got alot out of that, and broke some bad habits.
Then it was into RED MEAT as Freddy's slides depicted. Target Identification. Lots of info on that. Target Ranging for both MOA and MILS. Lots of info/exercises on that in the classroom. DATA BOOK lessons, RED MEAT here as well, and how to properly document your shots and other things in your book. A LOT of time was spent on that, and I should have listened more, as my book was deplorable after day 1, more on that later. READING THE WIND, and determining what is the most important wind, was PRICELESS, as we were about to be dealing with 20 MPH sustained, gusting to 35 at times. WOW, that was awesome. At first the wind really was pissing me off, very depressing to me, as I knew for sure I would never hit targets past 600 in that wind. You will see later, I was surely mistaken on that. The wind, was actually AWESOME! Glad we got that experience, and more importantly Data/DOPE!
AN AWESOME Lunch, was had by all, and then it was to the mats, with rifles/no ammo outside the class. Instructor inspection time for gear, position, trigger control, and NPOA. That did not last too long, then it was "Up The Hill" to the firing line for all.
Time to put it ALL together now. There were well over 10 targets on the range from 300 to 1010 yards. First we checked zeros, mine was off.....BUT I had a sweet zero the prior weekend? What Happened? I earned a nickname from the instructors this weekend. "JB" for JB Bore paste. I cleaned my rifles RELIGIOUSLY, before this weekend. Well, for some disciplines that is important. For LONG RANGE precision shooting, it is the kiss of death, as I learned. You will learn this as well if you take this course. About 1.5 minute zero adjust, and turret reset to zero, and it was off to Target Identification. We needed to draw a map of the range, with all targets identified, and the instructors were very CLEVER in target placement. These instructors KNOW WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT. It is all about learning. Never knew these almost 45 yr old eyes were so good! LOL Took awhile though.
After target identification, then we were told to RANGE all targets. Instructors really helped with this, down on the mat with us shooters, or making calls from the spotting scopes behind the line. MATH must be done, but trust me, if I can do it, you can as well. Not that difficult. I'd recommend a MIL scope vice MOA for this course, as MILS are quicker and easier for this discipline. But I did it with MOA as did other students, with success.
Then it was time to make the shot. WOW! WiiiiiiNNNNNNDDDD! Learned how to adjust for that and was making first shot hits on all targets out to 750. 800 - 1010 was eating my lunch, but it was eating everyone else but the best shooters lunch as well. No worries. Got data and TRUE VALUE come ups for all distances I shot on Saturday, that was 573 (Skinny), 382 (Hotel), 327 (Kilo), 422 (Whiskey), 750 (Foxtrot) and a few others. Impressive was the KD swingers, with a 5" gong at 500. That is 1 Minute shooting at 500. Very happy with that.
After getting solid DOPE on all targets, it was dinner time. AND WE WERE READY! After chow, it was back to the line at about sunset. All shooters setup on the line. We had 4 targets, that we all had DOPE on, so this was really KD shooting time. But in the pitch black. Illuminated reticle time. This was VERY cool. Targets were engaged one shooter at at a time, signal was a tap on your support side foot. 10 seconds to engage and make the shot, 5 seconds for a folllow up. If you hit, ALL Instructors yelled Loudly and Proudly "OOOhhhhMmmmmPah", that was a nice touch and a confidence builder for sure. If you missed, you got a just a passionate "Awwwwwwwwww". LOL, this was a very fun event for sure. There WAS NO SLACK GIVEN AT ALL on this, as the instructors expected you to have Known Distance DOPE already! That was why they gave the passionate "Awwwwwww". I made 3 one shot hits, the one miss I got on follow up, was my position and breathing, got a bit too confident.
After that, safe rifle/safe line time and off to the rack. Don't make the mistake me and my friend made. We ASSUMED that the targets would have the same "Designations" AKA, Whiskey would still be Whiskey tomorrow, or Bravo would still be Bravo. LMAO now, but Erick and I stayed up past midnight, making sure we had correct target dimensions, with sizes. I was pretty proud that we did this. Even showed my book to the Instructors the next morning, and they LAUGHED.
This is an UNKNOWN distance course. A Mental, and thinking man's game. OF course the instructors changed the color, and also the letter designation and range of the targets. Ya want your monies worth right? LOL
Bummer there, BUT...., I had data/DOPE from the previous day, so not all lost.
Day 2, was a great breakfast, very quick review, and a description of what was ahead of us. Instructors really shifted the tone of the course at this point, to a more serious tone. This is where the rubber meats the road. COLD BORE SHOT (CBS), this is a VERY important shot, and Thursday evening my CBS was going to be 1010, why skimp? Why pick something lesser? Go for the Gusto, all that. WELL, this was harped on. As a sniper, in a sniper (life or death situation), do you really wanna make a gamble/crap shoot on your maximum effective range? How about a hunting situation, is that an ethical shot? Got me thinking ALOT!
Prior to the course the longest target would have been my CBS, but.....after ALL Instructors, serious and somberly and soberly discussing this, I started to rethink that. I picked 750. Well within my Knowledge/Skills and Abilities. I FAILED. On the Ability part. Being able to quickly and accurately apply your data/DOPE to your sighting device is CRUCIAL! I dialed in wrong dope (PBZ Dope) as I had a brain malfunction. Miss. PBZ would have been 500 for me, and I simply screwed up. Imagine if that was a life/death situation for someone relying on me to save them. Lesson learned, and a somber one at that.
After that it was back to me DOCUMENTING my DOPE in my book properly, and easily referenced. This was my mission from earlier as I mentioned my data book on Saturday was deplorable. I decided to concentrate on all targets from 850 to 300 yards. Get solid DOPE on them as that is what the test will be. I did that, and thank GOD I listened and did it.
After a quick second chance to get DOPE, Instructor Freddy asked me if I had hit 1010 yet, I replied no, I was no longer interested in that. I wanted to perfect what was in my skill level. He responded, " Your call, you have the knowledge, skills and ability, why not apply them".
I stepped away from my rifle, as I knew UKD test was next, I had SOLID data. One more thing here, I had a brass catcher, that works well at my local range, not attached to rifle, fishing net style away from rifle. Well....shooting next to Jason? His Brake left that white mesh on my Brass Catcher "Black", we were pretty close on the line. It also would blow it over onto my rifle. Instructor Freddy saw that, and taught me a trick (I was shooting a Semi Auto), Hang a ball cap from the elevation turret, whallla! Brass Catcher!! Brilliant!
SO, I was off the rifle, watching, looking. And my dear friend Erick said "Lets get #9 and Alpha"! Why not!! So we got down on Alpha, and I dialed in my JB Ballistics Dope (42.2 MOA for 1000), and spotter called (more importantly I SAW) my hit. Takes about a second or a tick more to get that 175 Sierra Match King to 1010. Spotter/Instructor Calls "High Chief, about 1 minute", (That was very nice to hear as I am a retired Chief), I dial down one...., squuuueeeze, bang. Spotter Chris calls "Good Elevation Chief, 2 Left as a wind correction". I hold over 2 MOA, and send within 3 seconds......I hear it, and hear spotter Chris say "HIT Chief" with much enthusiasm from spotter! OOOMMMMmmmPAH! (Attend the course, you will dream about hearing that call).
Then it was a ZERO check again at 100. Sh*t! Remember my new nickname "JB", YUP, zero changed for me, about 1/2 minute. Reset turret and verified with a few shots. Good to go.
That was it, Lunchtime now, and it was a seriously, non joking lunch. Most shooters were comparing notes, and were getting their game faces on for the test ahead. The USMC, Unknown Distance Course. I'm told, for the USMC a passing score is an 80. 10 targets, unknown distance between 850 and 300 yards. I'm told now that the USMC target sizes are significantly larger, than the sizes we will be shooting. (Steel targets cost). So, for our class, a passing score would be 60, as we would be shooting reduced size targets at the same distance. INTIMIDATING? Hell yeah! BUT, as Instructor Freddy and the other Class A instructors pointed out thru the weekend, "This is a thinking mans game". Hmmmmmm
Away from the range, the instructors cleverly placed our 10 targets. After instructor target placement, we were called back up the hill to the range, and were given the target letter designations, and 2 targets had the same designation (two GOLFS), but different colors. ATTENTION TO DETAIL on the target designations is CRUCIAL!
Then it was "to the LINE", off Glass. Timer started, we had 20 minutes to be on Glass (your rifles optic), and complete the following CRUCIAL tasks:
Target Identification: Where are they? Where are they located. Draw your MAP!
Target Ranging: How far away are they? Use your reticle, do the MATH, and DOCUMENT it on your MAP!
READ The Wind!
That 20 minutes in prone, behind my rifle, felt like 2 minutes. These instructors also have INTEGRITY for the test. Who wants a "gimme/freebie", Ya gotta EARN IT!
After that, all shooters on the line, Instructor calls a target (in no particular order either! LOL), for example: "Shooters your target is Oscar", all shooters resound in unison "Target is Oscar". Few seconds to dial YOUR personal DOPE, and then instructor taps your support foot. 10 seconds for a first round hit. If a called hit, 10 points, if a Miss, shooter has 5 seconds for a second shot hit for a score of 6 points on that target.
This is a HARD test! But attainable.
Most qualified, I'd venture to guess 60%. I did well, very well for my first time, once I learned the importance of that Data Book. 8 first shot hits, 1 miss, 1 second shot hit due to a malfunction where I could not even get my first shot off on.
Will I be back, OF COURSE, if they will have me. SHOULD you take this course? A RESOUNDING YES!
OOOOOooommmmmmmPAHHHHHH!
Only hits count!
We ended with a very cool, but serious scenario. Terrorist at UKD, students were instructed to not shoot terrorist, but the BOMB! TINY target. What a treat we received, some serious tannerite and a very LOUD BOOM/Concussion, Big Flames, and Big Smoke!
Aim Small Miss Small, do consider taking this course, it is educational, humbling, and empowering!
Here is a Link to the pictures taken this weekend:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxT3dg1kPb6CfnQycTljRzFvOVc2MFY4bWpwdVc2RXI1TndtSjlaV1Y2Q2pSLUVqN2MtbzA&usp=sharing
Thanks for sharing.
Here is a video of our Closing Shot, very cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YBq1swvvwo
Beautiful AAR on the shoot Chris.
I need to take some time off to get to one of them events.
Glad you did well.
Keep up the good work.
I love tannerite.
Love the last slide in your pics, lol!
Is this shoot still offered by BHTC? I was on the site and it doesn't seem so.
The course is Initial/Intermediate Precision Rifle looks like first class will be May 12 and 13. Great class and BIG Challenge.
May I please ask, specifically what kind of rifle will work for this type of shooting event?
Thanks!
Eroyle
I went to the BHTC website and couldn't find the dates you mentioned. How does one sign up?
http://www.bhtcorps.com/?page_id=23
use the calendar on the web page for the date. You should send them an e-mail and/or call to get on his notification list. His class will generally sale out very quickly. Once he is ready to accept registration he will e-mail everyone.
GoodoldFriend,
Go to the BHTC website, listed above for rifle requirements.
But, in a nutshell....a sporter style hunting barrel (pencil barrel) will not work.
If the scope is a Bushnell, Barska, TASCO, it will not work!
Best bet is at least a .308Win, with a BULL barrel. You can do better, 6.5 Creedmoore, etc.
Scopes: FFP, 20MOA base, Vortex, Leupold, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Nightforce..., 50MM 6x14 (ish).
You will be sending a LOT of ammo down range somewhat rapidly. Must have reputable equipment. You can always email the lead instructor "Freddy Wissing" at Fargo007@Gmail.com
Tell Freddy I sent ya. Ask away.
R/
Chris
Thank you!!
Thanks, I am probably a year away from being able to go to something like this but it doesn't hurt to plan well in advance.
Gives me a lot to think about.
No sweat! It is a GREAT class!
My equipment:
POF 308 AR-10, 20" barrel
Larue 20MOA scope mount
Vortex Viper PST EBR-MOA reticle, think its 6x14 50MM
ATLAS Bipod with "extensions"
Rear Bag
Data Book
Eyes/Ears
Mat
Ammo: if using .308 Win....168's ain't gonna get it done. Suggest a 175SMK.
The above is what I used.
Of course I am in the market for a custom 6.5CM bolt action now.
R/
Chris
Navybowhunter,
Thank you very much for the contact information. I sent him an email asking about a specific rifle, the Ruger Precision Rifle in .308.
I have no idea of the glass I might put on it, that is a different consideration.
When I hear back I will pass on the information.
Best to you...
Goodoldfriend,
I am saving up to put a nighthawk on my RPR, in the mean time, I purchased the Vortex PST GenII FFP EBR-2C MOA reticle, 5-25X50 with Vortex extra high matched set rings. You can check out ultimate reloader and his series on 6.5 if you'd like more details.
With Liberty,
Scout74
Scout74,
May I ask why you are moving away from the Vortex?
Thanks
I received a reply from Mr. Wissig as follows:
"That's a great rifle to get started and we recommend that one without reservation."
LOL, like most things, "to get started", what am I getting myself into?
Scout74,
I have been looking at (and wanting) the Vortex Viper PST also for my LMT AR-10. Let me know what you think of it. Problem is how to raise the funds to pay for it with out getting in trouble with my better half. >:D
I was thinking maybe some of the first generation PST's might show up on DVOR or OpticsPlanet with a substantial discount.
Navybowhunter;
Quote from: navybowhunter on February 21, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
Ammo: if using .308 Win....168's ain't gonna get it done. Suggest a 175SMK.
What is a 175SMK? I've used 175 HPBT before, but never heard of a 175SMK,
aj
Quote from: airplanejoe on February 24, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
Navybowhunter;Quote from: navybowhunter on February 21, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
Ammo: if using .308 Win....168's ain't gonna get it done. Suggest a 175SMK.
What is a 175SMK? I've used 175 HPBT before, but never heard of a 175SMK,
aj
SMK = Sierra Match King
Sierra Match King 175 is a Hollow Point Boat Tail.
Thanks guys!!
aj
I am really enjoying this thread.
For the course, what would be your optics recommendations? It seems that Vortex is the best quality today for the price point.
Eaglescouter:
How much $$ are you willing to spend? LOL
I would go no cheaper than a VORTEX Viper PST Front Focal Plane....50 MM obj, 6x18 (or more)....Your choice on MIL or MOA. As stated above, MIL is faster....MOA is a "tiny" bit more precise. Were I to do it again....MIL would be my choice.
Eroyle has responded...we took this class together. He is heavy into PRS matches now. For anyone considering PRS matches...this is a great class to take to prepare you to be successful.
Appleseed is a GREAT primer to this class as well. As mentioned, if you can qual KD...and understand IMC (well)....you will do fine.
OK...Eaglescouter...best thing on optic recommendations is to read the note about equipment on their website. Or contact Freddy.
R/
Chris
R/
Chris
GoodOlFriend:
Ruger Precision Rifle is perfect! It will serve you well. I'd recommend the one in 6.5 Creedmoor (if you can find one or wait). That round is significantly superior to the .308 Win.
SMK: Sierra Match King bullet. MikeD responded to that.
I think....a 150 or 155 .308 Win will reach 1000. I know a 175 SMK will do it. I also know a 168 SMK will not do it past 800, reliably and repeatedly at least.
I WANT a 6.5 Creedmoor. Many of the folks shooting LR PRS matches are using the 6.5 Creedmoor or the .260 Nosler. BOTH are excellent LR Rifle choices.
Now...., barrel life will not be long on the above rifles...especially 6.5 or .260. As the lead instructor for BHTC (Freddy) says...."Ya wanna go FAST.....your going to be changing out "consumables" routinely. Barrels are "Consumables"...think of them as brakes or tires on a NASCAR or F1 Race car.
R/
Chris
R/
Chris
I am leaning toward the Savage Model 10T Cabela's exclusive. I know the RPR would be a much better choice but considering that I am not planning to compete and my access to ranges longer than 200 yards are very limited, I think it makes more sense. It is hard to justify spending the money on a rifle that will not be used to its full potential. Plus, at that price point, including the current rebate, I can probably afford to put some halfway decent glass on it.
Thoughts?
I built a Savage for a buddy...have a Google Drive link to the pics. I wanna say it was a Model 11, leftie. Came with the accutrigger, great trigger.
We basically used the rifle as an action donor. Savages are nice!
BARREL removal (if you plan to do yourself) on a Savage or Ruger Precision is/can be a BEAR! Even with the correct tools.
Setting headspace was a pain! Only have like 1/10th of an inch to play with. That took awhile.
I'll try to post a link to the pics later....my buddy was pretty happy. That thing prints under 1/2 MOA!
I want to build a 6.5CM on a 700 blue printed action. The action work I will pay to get done. It will not be cheap! BUT....buy once cry once.
Assembly is pretty simple...as Larry Potterfield says..."With the right tools"!
Don't discount the AR10 either. In fact in the PRS stuff many prefer an AR10, for faster follow up shots....and yes...you'll be taking a LOT of follow up shots! LOL Especially past 800 yards.
I like the POF-308 20". It is pricey. Comes with a decent trigger. I replaced that with a Giessele SD-E and like it better. But for an "out of the box" tack driving AR10, they are tough to beat. Mine will print under 1/2 MOA if I do my part.
There really are a TON of rifle options out there. Everything from "stock out of the box" to stuff that barely resembles the original rifle the action was a part of.
Check out Snipers Hide. Forum like this. Introduce yourself...and what your thinking about doing. You will be in the right place then for SOLID advice.
Freddy's forum name in there is Fargo007. SHlowlight (Frank Gali) is in there as well! GREAT dude...Phenomenal Shooter and AWESOME instructor. He even has videos on the fundamentals that will serve you very well.
It ain't Appleseed shooting, nor is it NRA HP. It's its own thing...., with several different supported and unsupported positions to shoot from.
Just googled the Savage 10T. It likely does not come with a 20MOA base, not sure, did not see in the item description. Honestly, the price at first glance scares me. Sounds too "cheap" to me. But I dunno. Recommend you ask Freddy what he thinks about it. It would not be my first choice.
R/
Chris
LOL, I know what he will say....RPR.
I will save my $$$ and do it right.
The POF sounds nice but it is pricier than the RPR.
Thanks so much for your input.
Where is this course held?
JLWilliams:
Course had been held at the Mifflin County Sportsmans Center in Mifflin PA.
Their website will show where upcoming courses are, and where they are being held. Google black hat training corps.
R/
Chris