Hello,
I have searched through all the posts on the .30-'06 reloading heading, and I have also used the "search" function for the forum. :)
My questions is simply, what is the lightest-recoiling load that will consistently cycle the action of a surplus Garand?
Thanks !!!!
Dan
I shoot 125g bullets over 47.5g of IMR 4064. Pretty soft recoil and the short OAL is less picky on enbloc seating. I have a CMP Special and can hold 4 moa with this load pretty regular at 100yds.
You can buy an adjustable gas block and shoot almost any load you want.
Quote from: Muddy on March 13, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
Hello,
I have searched through all the posts on the .30-'06 reloading heading, and I have also used the "search" function for the forum. :)
My questions is simply, what is the lightest-recoiling load that will consistently cycle the action of a surplus Garand?
Thanks !!!!
Dan
There is no "simple" answer to your question, since you used the word "consistently" in your request.
It will depend on the amount of wear in your gas cylinder and other parts of your Garand, as to how much gas escapes during cycling, which affects reliability or consistency on lighter loads...
also, lighter projectiles may benefit from a slightly faster burning powder to allow a more complete burn rate before the bullet exits the barrel. This helps to maintain an acceptible velocity.
I don't think you should trust as gospel any loads shared on a forum... there may be suggestions about what has worked for others, but there really is NO pat answer... your rifle is unique...
Try some published loads with 110 or 125 grain spire point projectiles...
Trailed off because I don't post loads or recipes......................... :slap:
Camljr,
Just about covered my thoughts.
Where he says try some published loads and trails off, you might try lighter than published loads too.
You could find your self with ammo that works some days the might not function the rifle on a cooler day.
The real beauty of semiautomatic rifles is when they work right. Sight adjustments are repeteable when ammo preforms in in a consistant way.
Quote from: Muddy on March 13, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
Hello,
I have searched through all the posts on the .30-'06 reloading heading, and I have also used the "search" function for the forum. :)
My questions is simply, what is the lightest-recoiling load that will consistently cycle the action of a surplus Garand?
Thanks !!!!
Dan
I have seen 130gr bullets and 46 gr 3031 Imr work amazing things.
I have used 168 with as little as 42 gr of 4895imr
My rifle likes 44.5gr 4895 Imr 168 bullets as far as low recoil. And compared to my 175 bullets with 48.5 grains 4895 Imr it's real light.
The wife's likes 42gr imr. 4895
I shoot for accuracy. I make sure rifle will shoot moa or better. Your miles may very. Like others say what your gun likes is what it likes. But the above is a start. On the low end you can go from 4moa to 1 moa with as little as grain powder difference so test.
I am not an expert on Garand loading, but you may be thinking of this the wrong way. The Garand is not recoil operated, there is a gas port near the end of the barrel that takes some of the pressure from behind the bullet and uses it to cycle the action. Whatever load you use, you want to tune the burn rate so that the pressure is within a desired range when the bullet reaches that point in the barrel.
I know the following is different from what you are looking for but it is instructive to understand. A common problem occurs when people use match (heavy) bullets with slow burning powders in order to get high muzzle velocities. This creates pressures that are too high at the gas port and leads to excessively energetic cycling of the action (causing parts to break).
Slower burning powders generate a lower (more spread out) pressure spike for the same muzzle velocity than fast burning powders. Using these powders with heavy bullets, the pressure simply has not gone down enough by the point the bullet gets to the gas port to keep that gas port pressure in the optimal range. For heavy bullets and high velocities, slow powders cause Garands to tear themselves apart, but for low recoil loads with light bullets, they could be your friend.
Anyone ever try the 110 grain m1 carbine bullets in a Garand?
Quote from: Grindstone on March 21, 2015, 03:13:07 PM
I am not an expert on Garand loading, but you may be thinking of this the wrong way. The Garand is not recoil operated, there is a gas port near the end of the barrel that takes some of the pressure from behind the bullet and uses it to cycle the action. Whatever load you use, you want to tune the burn rate so that the pressure is within a desired range when the bullet reaches that point in the barrel.
I know the following is different from what you are looking for but it is instructive to understand. A common problem occurs when people use match (heavy) bullets with slow burning powders in order to get high muzzle velocities. This creates pressures that are too high at the gas port and leads to excessively energetic cycling of the action (causing parts to break).
Slower burning powders generate a lower (more spread out) pressure spike for the same muzzle velocity than fast burning powders. Using these powders with heavy bullets, the pressure simply has not gone down enough by the point the bullet gets to the gas port to keep that gas port pressure in the optimal range. For heavy bullets and high velocities, slow powders cause Garands to tear themselves apart, but for low recoil loads with light bullets, they could be your friend.
You have sound logic. However not completely correct. There is pressure I'm front of the bullet. Granted a lot less then after the bullet but nonetheless it's there.
Yes, Slower burner powders in long barrel tend to have higher pressures at the gas port. It's because the powders still burning thus still increase in force.
But Chamber pressure is not the same and not necessarily related to gas port pressure. That where your not completely correct. Right idea/outcome. Wrong wording I belive or your mistaking port pressure related to chamber pressure which in garand case is not so
In reality there 5 different pressure events in garand. only 2 of them you care about. Pictures and video would help with this explanation.
I use 155gr Tipped SMK's over 43grains of IMR 4064. reliable cycling, and nice and soft (compared to standard m2 ball or 168gr match for garand).
A friend that is one of the top Garand shooters in the Nation, uses the 125's and they absolutely hammer!
1 MOA from a Garand? I have yet to see that for myself with any ammo. I just don't believe most "as issued" Garands will do 1 MOA. Key word in the previous sentence being "most", and those that are capable need a Rifleman that is capable of "HOLDING" 1 MOA.
Personally, I use well known and published loads. I only compete with the Garand at the 200 yard line, and the loads will hold the 10/X ring.
There are well known and published loads for everything from 125's to 175's.
My load for ALL wood rifles, is 46.5 IMR 4895 with a 175 or 168 Sierra Match King. Have had no issues with that load. When my surplus of 168's and 175's get low, I will likely go to my friends 125 grain load. He says it is a soft shooting load. Accuracy is phenomenal.
Lots of resources out there. If you "Google" Master Po's Garand loads, they are published on the innernet, ALL of it is listed there.
Key to loading for the Garand is absolutely NO Crimp! LOL
To that point.....last year I decided to check the concentricity on my Garand loads. Awesome, they were all within .002"!
I checked the HXP spam can stuff, and that was anywhere from .005 to .009!
BUT wait....there is more.
It really does not matter much with the Garand, concentricity that is.
Why?
The VIOLENT action of the Garand. I did this experiment. Loaded a clip up with 8 of my handloads. Then cycled them thru the rifle by manually operating the op rod. I then picked all 8 up and checked the concentricity again. Yup...., as you may have already guessed, they were originally .002" and after cycling them they were at .003 - .005"!
IMHO it depends on what you are loading the ammo for, and what your handloads are intended for. IF for JC Garand matches, 200 yard matches, it really doesn't matter. I have yet to find any ammo (including CRAP HXP...yeah I said that...LOL) that will not hold the 10 ring. You get 2 sighter shots, so....its really pretty easy stuff.
PAST 300 yards....handloads can make a HUGE difference.
My batch of HXP will not hold the HUGE Appleseed KD target at 400 yards. It just won't do it. BUT....I am confident that my 168's or 175's will surely do it.
Not sure how well 125's would do past 300.
SO...., sorry for the long discertation...BUT my thoughts are this:
AS IS JC Garand Matches: Shoot wnatever, it should ALL hold the 10 ring at 200.
AS KD's: 400 yards, I would suggest a higher BC bullet like the 168 or 175
Rattle Battle/National Infantry Team Match: This requires you to start at 600 yards and work your way in, if you are not familiar. At 600/500 I would highly recommend the 175 Sierra Match King or the 167 Grain Lapua Scenar.
Lighter bulets/loads will likely cause some issues past 300.
R/
Chris
I've recently joined the ranks of M1 Garand ownership and began reloading for it immediately. I wish I would have bought one years ago.
I am finding a rather mild load of 40.0 grains of IMR 4895 and Hornady 150 gr FMJs to be reliable and accurate. At 100 yards I get 3 inch groups as an average and as long as the temperatures are above 30 degrees (the winter of 2019/2020 was long and cold in Alaska) the cycling has been 100%. If the temps get down into the twenties some malfunctions occur.
Velocity with this load is only about 2411 fps. But, that's ok. All I'm doing with it so far is killing paper at 100 yards. Have not yet shot the rifle at longer ranges.
My cold weather loading has been 44.0 gr of IMR 4895 and a 168 gr Hornady or Speer BTHP match. Both loads cycle 100% even when the temps are in the teens. These 168s are also a bit more accurate than the 150 FMJs. The 168s fly out of the barrel at 2487 for the Hornady and 2506 fps for the Speer.
Gus