Hello,
I've been practicing with my LTR the past few days and have become pretty darn proficient with it (I can consistently keep 5 rounds under an inch from prone at 25 yards.) I know there are a lot who would laugh for me saying that is good shooting, but I think it's pretty good for the 5 days I've been practicing with it, I can do better than that if I really bare down, and am working to do better consistently at 25 yards. Anyway, I've been thinking about what a good centerfire rifle I could advance to and shoot at longer distances ( 100-400 yards) I want it to be a semi auto and be able to have aperture sights as well as a bolt hold open and auto release. I've found one I think would be nice and not break the bank, and I'd like your opinions on it. Im thinking about a Chinese Type 56 SKS and adding the Tech-Sights to it as well as a USGI Web Sling ( although it mounts to the side of the rifle and underneath it at the rear). I think it would make a good shooter and a good rifle for Maximum of 400 yard shooting. As I said, I'd like you folk's opinions on this option. It is appreciated.
Regards,
-Mo.
If you want an SKS then by all means get one. They are fun and I like mine quite a lot. If you want something to practice marksmanship an AR15 is arguably the best choice.
The AR15 will be more accurate and more easily upgraded as your skills improve. An SKS has the front sling attached on the side (can overcome this but it's not ideal) and mags for them are awkward. Accuracy is generally pretty fair but with the AR you can easily float the barrel, add a scope of you want, swap in a better trigger, and on and on.
I could keep going but there are many advantages to an AR. Having said that, SKS rifles are cool and they are fun and you can certainly make it work.
You can still order an M1 Garand from CMP for about $700.00. This is the definitive riflemans rifle.
Great sights, last shot holdopen and a bang on the oprod to release the bolt.
2cl
Im not really a fan of the AR Platform ( If I did get one I'd have to build it to get it the way I want, and that would be rather difficult/expensive due to the parts of the Vietnam Style Rifles and all the tools I'd need). Though I suppose I could try that if an SKS wouldn't be a good option. I've tried to order a Garand from the CMP and just stopped bothering with it.
Any milsurp rifle will do for shooting to 400yds.
SKS is a great choice for what you're looking for in a centerfire. I agree with Agrivere that an AR-15 is probably the best all around. Their prices are so low now they're not much more expensive than an SKS.
If you're looking for one with Vietnam-era parts, contact Slow2Speak and he'll hook you up with affordable parts.
Appleseed is a CMP affiliated organization. Our course of fire is very similar to the CMP's Service Rifle format. The standard American service rifles would probably be the M1 Garand, M1A (M14), or AR-15 pattern rifles.
Of those, the CMP M1 or an AR-15 will probably be most affordable. On the CMP front, availability of the less expensive service grade rifles seems to have been thin lately. You may have to be patient to score one.
If you opt for an AR-15, a free-floated barrel (most rail systems will free float) may offer the least frustration if you like a nice tight loop sling. With the non-free floated AR-15 barrel, a tight loop sling can shift the POI/POA a few MOA. That said, a non-free floated M16 or M4 clone can work just fine for KD rifleman's scores. I shot high power matches with a baseline non-free floated budget PSA 20" upper for a year before I upgraded to a WOA NM rifle upper. I just dialed in 2 MOA of shift when I knew I'd be tightly slung up. The AR platform probably offers the widest variety of easy upgrade options so you can "grow" the rifle with you as your skills improve (upgrade the trigger, upper, optics/sights, etc).
If your heart is set on an SKS, that can be made to work. SKS pattern rifles seem to come in a variety of quality levels so you may have some frustration depending on which importer worked yours over. If you're only buying an SKS because it is a little cheaper, then you might save yourself some frustration and money in the long run by opting for an AR or M1. Just looking, SKS rifles on gunbroker are going for around $400. The Tech Sights are another fifty bucks. In comparison, PSA is running sales this week where you could get a lower AR-15 half for $179 and an upper with BCG and CH for $279. Premium FN barrels are a hundred bucks more. That's not much more than the SKS option and I think it might be less frustration.
I might just buy a S&W M&P or something and upgrade it later as I see fit. Seems like a good option. Opinions? 200 Bucks more and comes with one of the good plastic mags and sights. Plus Ammo is dirt cheap.
Thanks,
-Mo.
PSA has the best value out there. The M&Ps are "cheap rifles" that cost more. A PMAG and MBUIS don't cost $200.
I remain unconvinced of the accuracy of my Chi Com SKS. Thing does weird stuff about 80 yards out and make the 100 yarders look crap.
The cheaper ARs are hard to beat on price if you must have semi-auto. Perhaps a Saiga or another AK type.
Slim, can you recommend the products from PSA that you are speaking of?
Thanks,
-Mo.
My recommendation as so
M1 Garand
Ruger mini 30
M14
Fal
Ak sks/ar.
Don't let people lie any of the above in good order will out shoot there shooters with proper ammo
The ones arma posted above.
Just go to their website and piece one together. Complete lower, complete upper and $20 transfer at your FFL and you're in business. They have sales and specials that change almost every day. Keep an eye on them and you can get a complete AR for around $500.
What most folks don't realize about ARs is almost all the big name companies simply assemble the pieces they buy from forges. When they put their roll mark on it or brand it as their own they find buyers who believe that adds hundreds of dollars to the value. I'm not a professional marketing guy nor have I been to business school but I googled the facts and they're out there. Most "cheap" ARs are overpriced. Eliminate that markup by ordering from PSA.
Some of the Chinese SKS's were built for stupid American. They cheaped them up to sell when an assault rifle with a banana clip was all the rage if you are gonna get an SKS get a GI from any country it will be a good one and stay away from 30 rnd mags stay with the 10 rnd it was born with and feed it with strippers.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=350199&mfg=1000318
These Del-Tons are selling under thier store price of $539. Found elsewhere for $700.
Shipping is $15. No relation to the sellers. Had to buy a chainsaw so no new AR Fo me. :(
Here's some examples from PSA:
LOWER: Cosmetic Blemish complete M4-style lower $129 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/14434/category/4282/)
UPPERS:
- Complete 16" Premium Upper (Premium = FN Barrel from PSA, nice upgrade) $259 -- you'd need to add a BCG & CH for another $50-100 with this one (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies.html?dir=asc&order=price)
- Complete 20" A2-style Premium Upper $309 -- also needs a BCG (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/12908/category/4220/), would be really nice with a fixed stock for a classic "M16A2 clone"
- Complete 16" A2 profile with BCG $429 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/deals/ar-15-sale/blemished-psa-16-hammer-forged-midlength-upperpper.html) -- I think one of the other ones is a better deal, BCGs/CHs are cheap these days and the premium bbl is a nice upgrade
Add any sight or optic of your choice. They have flip BUIS for like $35, or an A2 carry handle will be ~$50-100. Primary Arms has very affordable starter optics.
The cosmetic blem with BCG I saw earlier is gone now. PSA changes their sales and deals constantly so you have to keep an eye on them. It is no problem to buy an upper, lower, BCG and put them together. The assembly is no more involved than field stripping for cleaning would be.
I've rarely if ever been able to find hte "cosmetic blemish" on PSA's stuff. The "premium" is a nice upgrade for not much money, but I'd feel comfortable with anything that isn't PTAC from them.
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to build an M16 clone, I'm most likely going to acquire everything I need from slow2speak. I'm going to use a NoDakSpud Retro Lower along with a standard GI LPK. Getting the upper, bcg, and buffer tube assy. from s2s. Shouldn't break the bank and it would be a rifle I would really enjoy (I enjoy older rifles, I own 3 different C&R guns already, then I'd have a semi modern/still historic firearm :D). My "collection" would be complete, then, I suppose! I already have a 30 round mag from when I originally planned an AR build a while back, so I'm good on that area already!
Thanks again for your help guys!
-Mo.
Awesome!
I got to mess with those kits from S2S on Saturday. I was amazed how good the condition is on some of them, especially considering their age.
A few years back, Uncle Sam issued me an M-16 with the triangle handguards. It even had an old green adjustable sling on it. I prefer the feel of the older ones but the A-2 sights are hard to beat. So is that 1:7 heavy barrel. Makes shooting almost too easy! An AR-15 with a 1:12 pencil barrel, triangle handguards and iron sights is plenty good for AQTs out to 400 and if that's your preferred set up, you'll be sitting pretty.
Congrats on getting it all figured out. Having a rifle you're comfortable with and confident in is half the battle when it comes to shooting KD.
Personally I wouldn't choose the SKS. The triggers are heavy and have a lot of take up. In my view you won't be happy with your results at 25 meters let alone anything beyond. With respect to the Tech Sights one shooter I know of ditched the ones he had on an SKS. He found that they would smack his shooting glasses when he got slung up.
For the sake of practicality get a 20" HBAR profiled AR with a free float tube, second to that a CMP M1. I wouldn't mess with replica rifles until I had a good practical centerfire whose accuracy and usability will make the experience on the firing line a satisfying one.
Quote from: Mosin-Marauder on January 25, 2015, 05:08:34 PM
Hello,
I've been practicing with my LTR the past few days and have become pretty darn proficient with it (I can consistently keep 5 rounds under an inch from prone at 25 yards.) I know there are a lot who would laugh for me saying that is good shooting, but I think it's pretty good for the 5 days I've been practicing with it, I can do better than that if I really bare down, and am working to do better consistently at 25 yards. Anyway, I've been thinking about what a good centerfire rifle I could advance to and shoot at longer distances ( 100-400 yards) I want it to be a semi auto and be able to have aperture sights as well as a bolt hold open and auto release. I've found one I think would be nice and not break the bank, and I'd like your opinions on it. Im thinking about a Chinese Type 56 SKS and adding the Tech-Sights to it as well as a USGI Web Sling ( although it mounts to the side of the rifle and underneath it at the rear). I think it would make a good shooter and a good rifle for Maximum of 400 yard shooting. As I said, I'd like you folk's opinions on this option. It is appreciated.
Regards,
-Mo.
For the criterion you've outlined,,,get an AR, and don't look back.
If you have disposable income above a certain point, an AR type in 308 or an M1-a will serve your purposes well.
At present, and for the last several years , the Garand has been handicapped by the fact that bulk supplies of surplus have dried up and this will not not improve in future. I would say a Garand in .308 would make more sense.
At this point in time ; basic AR, simplest, most effective means to achieve your stated goal. Ammo, service and parts readiy availible.
Quote from: Mike Nollett on January 26, 2015, 08:09:45 AM
Personally I wouldn't choose the SKS. The triggers are heavy and have a lot of take up. In my view you won't be happy with your results at 25 meters let alone anything beyond. With respect to the Tech Sights one shooter I know of ditched the ones he had on an SKS. He found that they would smack his shooting glasses when he got slung up.
For the sake of practicality get a 20" HBAR profiled AR with a free float tube, second to that a CMP M1. I wouldn't mess with replica rifles until I had a good practical centerfire whose accuracy and usability will make the experience on the firing line a satisfying one.
I would say that the most satisfying experience mosin marauder could have on the firing line would be qualifying KD with his "impractical replica" M16 A1. And by the way I am a middle man and wont make a dime on the parts they will be from my brother in law that has a Mil surplus store and I happen to know that he treats Appleseeders pretty well and he wont makin much either.
Quote from: Mosin-Marauder on January 26, 2015, 02:18:54 AM
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to build an M16 clone, I'm most likely going to acquire everything I need from slow2speak. I'm going to use a NoDakSpud Retro Lower along with a standard GI LPK. Getting the upper, bcg, and buffer tube assy. from s2s. Shouldn't break the bank and it would be a rifle I would really enjoy (I enjoy older rifles, I own 3 different C&R guns already, then I'd have a semi modern/still historic firearm :D). My "collection" would be complete, then, I suppose! I already have a 30 round mag from when I originally planned an AR build a while back, so I'm good on that area already!
Thanks again for your help guys!
-Mo.
Glad you found a good solution! For the really old school M16A1 look Numrich has the A1 furniture sets: https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/552740.htm