I have a Turner sling that I bought years ago, thinking I'd have tried service rifle competition by now. I haven't, but after an Appleseed event I started thinking about a RBC at Ramseur in March...so out came the sling. It seems to be too short for me. I would like to know how the sling is measured. I assume it's the length of the long strap, but is it the leather portion or to the end of the frog? If I can figure this out, I'll know what I have when I sell it. I suppose the best thing to do is order the longest one and go from there. Any expertise with this?
Thanks,
Mike.
http://www.turnersling.com/faq_how_attach.html
These are the directions to attach it to your rifle. If you have it on properly it should be more than long enough. There are youtube videos that show you how to attach it as well. I will try to find the one that was posted on the forum.. It was a drill instructor at one of the national matches teaching slings, reading wind and a few other things. He was very entertaining.
Interesting.
Turner shows the keepers at different locations. The DI mentioned says that they are always touching. I was taught the DI method 50 years ago.
2cl
http://youtu.be/V80JyfZ4gBQ (http://youtu.be/V80JyfZ4gBQ)
This video?
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=34677.0
This is the thread I was talking about.
There is more than one way to attach a turner style sling, though most service rifle shooters use what is called the marine method. I'll try to post some pictures of mine when I have time.
The differences I've seen in assembling the sling to the rifle are pretty minor. Hooks to the inside or outside, keepers together or separated by the long strap hook.
I know there is a "no-pulse" method that uses different keeper to hold three layers of sling at one point, but I am just looking for info on what length sling ya'll have, and where that measurement is taken so I can tell which one I have.
Thanks for your help,
Mike.
What rifle are you using the Turner sling for?
Length will be longer for an AR vice an M1.
R/
Chris
20 inch AR. A2 sights. Intended to be a service rifle competitive arm, but realized once I did some research that a1/9 barrel wouldn't be ideal. And the local club only shoots service rifle on Sundays. So. I'm very willing to attend an RBC, but not give up Sunday worship for a new hobby.
navybowhunter has it right, for some folks a standard length (52") 1907 sling is too short for a 20" barreled AR. Turner offered longer length slings, up to 56" IIRC. A longer one would probably be better in your instance.
I think other manufacturers make extra length slings also.
Or you could use a USGI web sling and be ready for almost anything!
I have gotten an email back from Turner. They ignored my question about measuring my current sling, and said I should probably buy a longer one. Well.
I guess I should have been able to figure that out on my own! #)
But yes, I have a web sling I can use, and I will probably buy the longest sling they offer. I imagine if it's got any extra length I'll be able to take that up in the adjustment holes.
Maybe I can sell the old one to a friend who just bought a Garand.
Thanks for all the responses,
Mike.
Turner has pretty good Customer service IMHO.
I'd give them a call. Just ask them how to measure length, if that is what your concerned about.
If you want to order a new sling, just tell them what rifle you want it for, you will receive the correct sling.
R/
Chris
Just an FYI, Triple K Leather makes a sling that is very good and can be picked up in places like Cabelas for about $25. Made in USA as well.
Triple does not list the lengths of their slings. I would be hesitant to order one for an AR. I do by the way have several of their leather holsters and they have given me decades of good service.
If I remember correctly Turner recommends 54" for the ARs. Give them a call to verify.
I had an informative chat with them today. If the sling doesn't have stamped numbers, it's a 1907 sling, and 48 inches. Stamped numbers are on the National Match slings, starting at 50 inches. As most of you seemed to know, AR's use 54 inch slings, typically. I ordered the 56 inch model to ensure sufficient length. The leather part of the long strap is cut a little oversize and trimmed and finished to an approximate length. The hook is attached but doesn't figure into the length.
Latest update -my 56" sling arrived the other day. I could have probably used the 54" sling but this one should work out just fine.
Butting in, and showing my cluelessness, what is the recommended size for a garden-variety Garand?
After reading a thread on CMP forum, 50" may be the standard for the Garand. However, the advice given the person posting was to buy the 54", you can always trim but can't add length.
54 Good for AR I wouldn't go shorter on AR. but at the end of the day they have lot of adjustment I have 56 and my Mini it fits fine. and its quite a bit shorter then my garand. Get what on sale or available.
I personally have Leather black 1907 and the jim owens bio sling. The bio for competition is the way to go. No stretch and lots of grip. like once you have it on its nightmare to get off.
For show and non competition leather: for competition Bio all the way.
So your biggest question should be black or brown ;)
Quote from: jmdavis on January 06, 2015, 01:23:58 PM
Triple does not list the lengths of their slings. I would be hesitant to order one for an AR. I do by the way have several of their leather holsters and they have given me decades of good service.
I have two of them that I bought from Cabelas, and they are plenty long for me. In fact they could be cut down so the excess isn't in the way. I paid less than they show on their website, and if you pick one up from Cabelas it could easily be returned.
I'm sure Turner makes a very nice sling, it's just more than I want to pay for one when the Triple K is available. I'm not sure what the advantage is to spending more for the Turner.
Quote from: Niskibum on January 31, 2015, 10:21:27 AM
Quote from: jmdavis on January 06, 2015, 01:23:58 PM
Triple does not list the lengths of their slings. I would be hesitant to order one for an AR. I do by the way have several of their leather holsters and they have given me decades of good service.
I have two of them that I bought from Cabelas, and they are plenty long for me. In fact they could be cut down so the excess isn't in the way. I paid less than they show on their website, and if you pick one up from Cabelas it could easily be returned.
I'm sure Turner makes a very nice sling, it's just more than I want to pay for one when the Triple K is available. I'm not sure what the advantage is to spending more for the Turner.
Speaking as someone who makes custom gunleather (holsters, belts, slings, etc), let me say that there is a BIG difference, but it really might not matter much to the average shooter.
Turner uses better, heavier leather, it's treated to reduce stretching, the keepers are rigid, the holes are oval not round, the frogs are heavy duty and you can get them in different lengths and with numbered holes.
In short, the Turner sling is designed to last for years of constant use. The TripleK isn't. If you're shooting a heavy match rifle every weekend, you'll notice the difference.
tk
To be honest, Turner leather slings look like they are made out of cardboard when compared to those made by Les Tam, Ron Brown, and the late John Weller. And on top of that, those three sling makers charge about the same as Turner does for a clearly superior product.
I assume that you mean that despite the very high quality of Turner slings, that the other makers are better. And it is worth your while to talk to them, put in your order, and wait a few months for a more beautiful sling.
Quote from: proneshooter on January 31, 2015, 04:11:48 PM
To be honest, Turner leather slings look like they are made out of cardboard when compared to those made by Les Tam, Ron Brown, and the late John Weller. And on top of that, those three sling makers charge about the same as Turner does for a clearly superior product.
Les Tam =$200 Turner.
Les Tam was the one that taught turner to make slings. :cool2:
Les Tam is better to turner like Lamborghini vs ferrari.
The others I can't comment.
Quote from: viperrt1 on February 05, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: proneshooter on January 31, 2015, 04:11:48 PM
To be honest, Turner leather slings look like they are made out of cardboard when compared to those made by Les Tam, Ron Brown, and the late John Weller. And on top of that, those three sling makers charge about the same as Turner does for a clearly superior product.
Les Tam =$200 Turner.
Les Tam was the one that taught turner to make slings. :cool2:
Les Tam is better to turner like Lamborghini vs ferrari.
The others I can't comment.
Last time I bought a sling from Les, it was well below $200.
If you think there is no quality difference between Tam and Turner......whatever.
I know Les trained Ron Brown and Ron's slings are every bit as good as Les. They also retail for $69 at Creedmoor (actually less than Turners).
If Turners were so good, they would be the dominant sling in NRA/CMP service rifle. But they are not.
Tam quote me $200 so maybe he likes you. I love Les Tam if it was under $100. Maybe I can buy one from you?
And at cmp western games turner dominated.
Nra I believe you. But nra really different then cmp.
Quote from: viperrt1 on February 06, 2015, 11:13:40 AM
Tam quote me $200 so maybe he likes you. I love Les Tam if it was under $100. Maybe I can buy one from you?
And at cmp western games turner dominated.
Nra I believe you. But nra really different then cmp.
Must have been a misunderstanding. My Tam was under your target price.
Must have been then. He said $200 and 6 month to year wait. Then he said if that out of my range to get turner. So I did. He was super nice guy. I should give him a call again see what going on.
Quote from: viperrt1 on February 06, 2015, 11:35:36 AM
Must have been then. He said $200 and 6 month to year wait. Then he said if that out of my range to get turner. So I did. He was super nice guy. I should give him a call again see what going on.
and the wait estimate is overstated. Mine came much faster than expected, and top quality. But even if it is a year, that's better than never, and if your year starts now that's better than starting in july.
OK, let's get controversial about actual shooting stuff for a change....
All slings have to be made within certain guidelines specified by the NRA. Les Tam is by all accounts a great guy and an honest man who makes a fine product at a reasonable price, once you consider the amount of work that goes into it. But it's neither rocket science nor magic.
If you want a really fine sling, there are a couple of things you look for:
-- Start with the leather. The best leather for slings is Hermann Oak strap leather. The tannage is vital. Vegetable-tanned leather is processed to be tough and stretch-resistant, and Hermann Oak is famous for making leather so tough it can be hard to cut. Strap leather is not processed with fats or oils, which make the leather softer and more beautiful, but also more prone to stretching. Chrome-tan, latigo, bridle, etc can be very pretty, but they are nowhere near as tough.
Hermann Oak is one of the oldest tanneries in the country, and one of the most prestigious. Their leather is more expensive (anywhere between 20-40%). If the manufacture isn't boasting about using it, he ain't using it. Tam and Brown proudly proclaim they use Hermann Oak.
-- Oval holes versus round holes. Does this really matter? Don't know, but some folks think it does.
-- Leather treatment. How is the leather being finished? Different treatments affect the leather differently. I've got a cowboy rig made by George Lawrence and Co. that's so old the thread dry-rotted (about 65 years old, I'm figuring). My wife restitched it and it's all still perfectly useable because the leather is still good. It was finished traditionally with a an oil dip and saddle soap.
-- Keepers. Are they stitched or riveted? Everybody has an opinion on what's best. Tam rivets his with old fashioned copper rivets, which are expensive and must be set by hand.
-- Frogs. Brass or steel, doesn't really matter as long as they are heavy enough not to bend, and have the correct profile to avoid cutting the leather.
Shooting with a sling puts serious stress on leather. I shot Rifleman with a sling I made, but by the end of the weekend it had stretched so much that I've never used it again. I've seen one of Brownell's Competitor Plus slings develop a four-inch weak spot from stretching too much (a sure sign of poor tannage) after a year of use. I've also seen a Turner No-pulse sling give up the ghost and dry rot -- but it had been in use for 15 years. Lesser quality slings will fail under hard use and may do so surprisngly fast.
tk
Quote from: viperrt1 on February 06, 2015, 11:13:40 AM
And at cmp western games turner dominated.
Nra I believe you. But nra really different then cmp.
CMP Games is the bush league. CMP Excellence in Competition and NRA Highpower (service rifle) are just as competitive and people typically use the best gear they can afford. Buy right and cry once, and all that.
Somebody might have already posted this, but I didn't see it.
The length of sling is measured by the length of the top strap.
Quote from: mjkten on February 05, 2015, 10:48:02 PM
I assume that you mean that despite the very high quality of Turner slings, that the other makers are better. And it is worth your while to talk to them, put in your order, and wait a few months for a more beautiful sling.
I ordered a Ron Brown M1907 from Creedmoor Sports on Sunday night. I paid for 2 day Fedex because it was only $2 more than ground freight. It shipped on Tuesday and I got it today. Oh I paid $67.99 (not including shipping) for it.
Not sure where you guys get this "hundreds of dollars/months of wait" for a top shelf M1907 sling.......Certainly not from reality I can assure you.
This thing is noticeably beefier than anything Turner makes (yes I have seen and played with plenty of them in almost 15 yrs of highpower). The keepers are super strong. If it stretches it is not noticeable. Genuine Herman Oak leather.
I took it out of the bag, rubbed in a thin coat of my favorite leather treatment (Effax Lederbalsam), let it sit for 30 min then rigged it on the rifle. Did some snapping in to fine tune which holes to use for prone and sitting, and the sling is now perfectly supple and broken-in, ready to go. Another thing I noticed is that keeping the sling conditioned makes the glove stick to it acting almost like a hand stop.
While the M1 sling has many advantages, and I have used them for years, there are two things I do not like about them. First off, they stretch, and stretch more than a quality leather sling as time goes on. Second, the arm loop tightens ever more the more tension you put on the sling. This also has the effect of lengthening the sling over a string of fire to the point that at 600 yds I need to stop about halfway through the string and take up some slack.
I've got Brown, Turner, and Weller slings.
I wouldn't sell my Weller match rifle sling for $500. Because it can never be replaced. He told me at Perry 2 years ago, to take care of it. He could not get the leather that he used for them anymore at that time.
I also have one of a small run of Water Buffalo leather Service Rifle slings that he made. It is long and tough. It grips well and doesn't stretch much.
Ron Brown makes great slings. I have a 56" NM model from him. It's a good one and I use it regularly.
I have several Turners, one is a 56" inch leather, and 2 are AWS slings rigged as Owen's No Pulse. One of those has an longer short strap that I special ordered from Turner to make it fit better. The leather Turner is a completely serviceable sling, but it is not a match for the JHW'S or the Brown's or Tam's. On the other hand, if you like a "No Pulse" type sling rigged as a cuff for your shooting coat. The AWS Turners are really good.
Finally, slings are a commodity that wear out with use. You may need to replace them. The AWS and custom makes seem to last longer to me. But I can run a Turner for 2 years of 26 matches and 100 practices per year. Finally, in my opinion, Brown slings are the absolute best bargain out there right now.
All of that said, Grant Singley won multiple National, Army and Interservice titles with web slings.