I have a friend looking for an 18" rifle in 5.56.
I know we can build one, but he'd like one already built with a good warranty.
I searched for a while but couldn't find any.
$1000 is the target price range.
It's not hard at all to find 18" options, the first two manufacturers I checked, Rock River Arms and DPMS have 18" options. $1,000 is going to be the hard part. The most likely way to get an 18" for under $1000 is to get an 18" upper then slap a cheap lower under it. Of course, I'm one of those people that recommends you don't go cheap on the lower...
How about something like this for an upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html). It should enable you to hit your budget.
I saw that, but .223 Wylde is different than 5.56 right?
Quote from: FiremanBob on October 11, 2014, 05:35:34 PM
How about something like this for an upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html). It should enable you to hit your budget.
It's designed to shoot 5.56 and 223. It's designed for both. So definitely good to go.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Wylde
Quote from: Dakota on October 11, 2014, 06:29:06 PM
I saw that, but .223 Wylde is different than 5.56 right?
Quote from: FiremanBob on October 11, 2014, 05:35:34 PM
How about something like this for an upper: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-18-chf-223-wylde-1-8-rifle-gas-ssk-15-with-nickel-boron-bcg-and-charging-handle.html). It should enable you to hit your budget.
The Wylde chamber is for most purposes better than the 5.56 chamber. As was already stated it will be fine with 5.56 and with .223 ammo, and offers greater accuracy as its a slightly tighter/smaller chamber. The downside to greater accuracy of course is it won't tolerate dirt/sand/etc as well. So for combat purposes a 5.56 might be better but accuracy will suffer somewhat.
Almost all of my ar15's have the wylde chamber.
If you buy quality parts an mfg warranty is unnecessary.
But most reputable companies have a warranty on their uppers, and that's probably the best/cheapest way to go.
Buy the assembled upper and build a lower from parts.
But if he insists, most major AR mfg's offer an 18 inch model - as stated earlier, that price point is difficult to find though.
It's simply not prolific enough.
Another option is BCM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-missk-15.htm). I have a shooter who is a regular at our long distance events that swears by his.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3943/15324489729_6386c0c7bd_c.jpg)
Personally, I went super cheap and got a 18" mid upper from Hardened Arms with free float 1/8 wylde barrel for $325 and so far am very happy with it.
There are tons of options out there.
Quote from: TheSquirrelPatrol on October 11, 2014, 05:30:21 PM
It's not hard at all to find 18" options, the first two manufacturers I checked, Rock River Arms and DPMS have 18" options. $1,000 is going to be the hard part. The most likely way to get an 18" for under $1000 is to get an 18" upper then slap a cheap lower under it. Of course, I'm one of those people that recommends you don't go cheap on the lower...
The DPMS 3G1 is a good option, it's 1100-1200 online.
Thanks for the info, I had not seen that one before.
I purchased a PSA 18" CHF 223 Wylde 1:8 Rifle Gas SSK 15" - Without BCG or Charging Handle for $469.99 a few months ago. They had a SS version as well but I opted for CHF (less accurate/lower MX though!).
The concept was to clone the "SPR" MK12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_12_Spec ... pose_Rifle) which is basically configured as a sort of DMR-type arrangement. BCM sells them for $1200+ (and that's just the upper alone! Building out a complete BCM with high end optic would likely run around $3K...). My build consists of:
- PSA 18" CHF 223 Wylde 1:8 Rifle Gas SSK 15" ($469.99)
- BCG & CH (<$100 on sale)
- Magpul BUIS (had laying around)
- Primary Arms 6x fixed scope with ACSS reticle ($120)
- LPK, and B5 stock (~$100ish? Probably less... Had the parts and a lower laying around...)
- Geisselle SSA-E (~$200 on sale)
- Harris Bipod ($80 on sale)
- GI web sling (had laying around)
TOTAL WITH OPTIC: Just under $1100
I have now shot a few hundred rounds through this rifle and have a good idea of its capabilities. With a mix of five and ten-shot groups from the bench or bipod using IMI's MK262 clone, I grouped from 1.25-2 MOA. From a slung prone unsupported position I was keeping <2 MOA no problem. Using PPI M193 clone ammo, groups opened up to 3-4 MOA. I suspect that if I had opted for the stainless bbl rather than chrome-lined, the groups would tighten up 0.25-0.5 MOA or so.
In addition to shooting the Appleseed COF and sighters, I took the rifle out on a field shooting excercise to engage targets at unknown distances from 120-650 yards at Elberton's KD shoot. I utilized the PA ACSS reticle to range and then applied the BDC function (more below).
The Primary Arms optic offers a lot for its price point. The turrets are zero-resettable. The glass is clear for its price point, much better than many other cheap scopes. The illuminated reticle works well enough at dawn/dusk. The scope has held its zero. 6x power was enough for me to still shoot both eyes open up close (barely) but still ID and engage targets out at 400+ yards. The ACSS reticle offers some nice features, some of which I tested:
- Auto-ranging (has horizontal and vertical lines calibrated for 68" tall and ~28" wide) -- This gave me very quick and accurate-enough reads on the FTX targets. I was then able to take more precise measurements using known-MOA marks on the reticle to derive better ranges. But for quick and dirty ranging the ACSS design works well; it is fast and gets you close enough to ring steel. The only problem is that down at the 700-800 yard ranges, the lines are so small as to make it tough to use these features.
- Wind lead: We had a light breeze (3-5 MPH) crosswind. Rather than holding or dialing in a few clicks, I used the ACSS hold-over dot. Worked like a champ.
- BDC: The BDC is calibrated for M193. I was shooting MK262 most of the weekend. Primary Arms suggested I dial in 0.5-1" high at 100 yards. I did so and found that my groups were within about 1 MOA of the BDC when taking sighters. Not bad. We were not able to shoot beyond 600 yards so I don't know how well it works at 700-800 yards.
My main complaint with the PA scope is that while the windage is advertised as 1/4 MOA clicks, I was really getting about 3/5 of a MOA from each click. Not a deal breaker now that I'm aware of it. My other issue is that the screws on the scope mount provided by PA have some gap in them. The scope is snug and firmly mounted with no wandering zero issues now, but we'll see how it stands the test of time. I may eventually upgrade the optic but thus far the PA is a winner.
So, all that said -- how did it shoot, other than sighters/groups?
I was able to handily qualify at known distance on the Appleseed Qual Test with this rifle. I also did very well in the "top shot" field shoot which required ranging/engaging steel targets at unknown ranges. While I also have a trusty Service Rifle (basic A2 config), the "SPR" clone concept works great for engaging targets at intermediate ranges (200-600). For a chrome lined bbl I am happy with the accuracy provided and think it was a good tradeoff for longer barrel life and lower mx requirements, but others may disagree (and PSA makes a stainless version as well).
Hope that helps!
Be careful to get a barrel twist rate that is appropriate for the ammo being used. A 1x8 twist doesnt always stabilize Mk262 or other 77gr bullets.
Quote from: Spartacus2002 on October 25, 2014, 03:23:20 PM
Be careful to get a barrel twist rate that is appropriate for the ammo being used. A 1x8 twist doesnt always stabilize Mk262 or other 77gr bullets.
Is this personal experience??? There are High Power shooters using 1 in 8" twist out to 800 yds + with 80 gr Sierra bullets. I personally shoot 75gr Hornady Match (BTHP) rounds out to 600+ yards with my 1 in 9" twist barrel.
Quote from: fepowered on October 25, 2014, 07:47:45 PM
Quote from: Spartacus2002 on October 25, 2014, 03:23:20 PM
Be careful to get a barrel twist rate that is appropriate for the ammo being used. A 1x8 twist doesnt always stabilize Mk262 or other 77gr bullets.
Is this personal experience??? There are High Power shooters using 1 in 8" twist out to 800 yds + with 80 gr Sierra bullets. I personally shoot 75gr Hornady Match (BTHP) rounds out to 600+ yards with my 1 in 9" twist barrel.
My personal experience and others. I'm not saying it can't happen.
I feel quite comfortable with 1:8 and MK262, especially on 18"+ bbls.
LaRue and BCM both sell 18" SPR type uppers with 1:8 twists. Krieger sells a 1:7.7 optimized for MK 262 weight bullets. The Army SDM-R uses 1:8 stainless bbls. The SEAL Recce rifle also uses a 1:8. Service rifle shooters use a mix of 1:7 and 1:8 bbls.
1:7 and 1:8 should both handle M193 ball fine.
1:9 will probably struggle with 77 grain and above.
If I were shooting something heavier than MK 262 I might feel differently and want a 1:7.
There's a significant difference between 1:9 and the others... THe difference between 1:7 and 1:8 seems pretty negligible.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-18-Rifle-Upper-Group-s/158.htm (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-18-Rifle-Upper-Group-s/158.htm)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html)
Add your choice charging handle for <$100
Quote from: dragit on October 27, 2014, 10:43:45 AM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-18-Rifle-Upper-Group-s/158.htm (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-18-Rifle-Upper-Group-s/158.htm)
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-blackhawk-edition-no-magazine.html)
Add your choice charging handle for <$100
BCM is offering free BCGs with uppers now too!