So I may be weird but I actually enjoy reloading. I sit down with a pile of parts and assemble something useful. I haveevan went as far as to go shoot just to have something to load, of course components were more plentiful in those days.
That being said, the one thing I absolutely hate is trimming brass. I started with the lee hand trimmers, that got old pretty quick. So I sprung for a RCBS mandrel style trimmer, better but not impressive. Next I decided to attach a cordless drill to speed things up, again it was better but still sucked.
Not being able to stomach a $400 giraud or $300 Dillon, I tried cutting my chamfer/debur time down by buying a rcbs case prep station. While it was easier, it did not save any time. Next I trird a 3way cutting head for th he rcbs trimmer in hopes of not having to chamfer/debur. Wasnt real happy with the resuts.
So after all that, and having a bucket of 223 needing trimmed, I was finally ready to drop the (now) $440 for a Giraud trimmer when I found the new Giraud triway. Essentially its the cutter head of their expensive trimmer that you chuck in a drill for $100. Recived mine today after less than a week and trimmed a few hundred cases in no time. It chamfers/deburrs and has a shields to catch trimmings. While I still wont say that I enjoy it now, it is a lot easier to swallow. It is worth every bit of the $100. Highly recommend!
http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm
And the link......
I bought one this year at Camp Perry. What are you using to power yours?
A black and decker drill held in a vice with rubber blocks.
No doubt, case preparation is the most tedious part of reloading, but the end result is worth it. I use the Hornady case trimmer with a small Lyman cordless drill, with the adapter chuck from Hornady, to speed up the trim process. I usually don't trim more than 100/200 cases per session, just to avoid the drudgery.
:)
Looks like the Little Crow Gunworks Worlds Finest Trimmer. I use one of those; powered by a Dewalt cordless drill. Does an adequate job. Con: Each unit works with only one caliber. Not as accurate as my Wilson hand crank unit, but a lot faster.
In liberty, aj
I use the Worlds finest trimmer too. I don't mind it at all, works great accurate and fast. I load on the 550b now days and love it. I can spend more time shooting or hunting components.
The difference between the Girauld Tri-Way and the WFT and LittleCrow, is that the triway trims, chamfers and deburs. It is also heavier and has the readu availabilty of new cutting blades.
I have the WFT, and it works, but I still needed to debur and chamfer by hand for my 600 yard ammo. WFT resolves that issue.
Here is the website, if you choose to read about it. Giraud makes good stuff.
http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm
Here's the manual if you are more interested.
http://www.giraudtool.com/Giraud%20Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.pdf
I bought a Gracey trimmer years ago and I love it. Most guys say the Giraud is better, but I see no reason to change now. I started with a Lee hand tool and it was alot of work!
Giraud sells a blade upgrade for the Gracey as well. Nothing wrong with a Gracey. It's simple and does the job.
Thanks, that looks easier to set up than the 2 blade Gracey.
That was actually one of the first things that he made. According to the people I know who use them they work well.
I'll give my experience here. Started with the RCBS and the tri-way cutter head. VERY repeatable and nice chamfer, but it does take time to set up correctly.
Looking to move this part of the process along faster, I went with the WFT's in all my calibers. WFT is accurate enough and repeatable. I used a cheap skill drill press to set the trimmers in. Issue as mentioned is the chamfer and debur stage of the process. I have carpal tunnel, and manually chamferring and deburring is painful for me.
I have now had my Giraud for a week. Went ALL IN and procured the shell holders for .30-06, .308, .300AAC and .223. Also bought the Meplat trimmers for .22 and .30.
I am happy with the Giraud so far, but.....either I am doing something wrong or others that brag so much about it are doing something wrong. Likely the former vice the latter.
I have only done .223 cases (Lapua), and they are all new brass, resized.
Length is set to 1.750". What I am obtaining is cases that are 1.749.5" to 1.750.5" Very happy with that.
However, in my experience it is not just "stick case in, let trim and twist a bit". I tried that, and found the chamfer is not "uniform" around the cases. If I spend about 7-10 seconds per case, twisting completely around and keeping the brass in the holder until the vibration in my fingers stop (from the cutter head) I get a very uniform case.
Anyone else have a similar experience?
Also, holding them tiny .223 cases in that trimmer, I have found it wears my forefinger and thumb out a bit. I'll chalk this up to the small case and think that when I get around to trimming the 30-06 larger cases it will be easier.
Giraud, as well as the WFT measure off the shoulder. My experience with that: I have 100 pieces of once fired Lapua .223 that I resized in a seperate session. Then a week later I resized the 400 other pieces of "new" Lapua brass to prep for trimming. My sizing die is on its own toolhead, and never gets adjusted. However, the "slight" amount of play of the toolhead in the press did cause me a slight issue. The once fired (100 pieces) of resized brass and new brass I all threw into a pile. The brass that was resized in a seperate session, won't even trim! Some are 1.760" and the cutter head will not engage them.
I chalk this up to the sizing operation. I will adjust the trimmer after I finish the new brass to trim the other pieces that were sized in a seperate session. Again, anyone else have a similar experience?
All in all, very happy I bought the Giraud and am still learning the "technique" for it.
R/
Chris
Interesting, I have done several hundered .223 of mixed headstamps with fairly consistant results. I assume you are full length resizing correct? I belive the directions say it wont work with neck sized brass.
Del,
I am full length sizing, in fact small base resizing.
I proved this at lunchtime. Finished the batch I had sized of the new brass, and then re-adjusted the Giraud for the other pile I had sized during another session. Unfortunately, I had a few "new" cases that got tossed in that pile by accident.
I'm trimming to 1.750 and got it set. Worked great on that other pile after the adjustment. The few cases I had inadvertently tossed in that pile got trimmed to 1.400 (ish).
So....Even on my Dillon 650 with a dedicated tool head for the sizing die, if one was to remove the toolhead and re-install it, one would likely have a tough time trimming consistently. I neglected to mention, I had also performed the Uniquetek tool head mod. That mod actually places helicoils in the toolhead (not a press mod) and allows the toolhead to be tightened to the press. Even with that mod, sizing a batch, removing the toolhead, and sizing another batch will not yield consistent results for trimming on a trimmer that sizes off the shoulder.
My fix for this, trim in batches from now on.
I did setup the Meplat trimmer blade and that thing works great for the open tip bullets, uniforms them up nicely.
r/
Chris
QuoteGiraud, as well as the WFT measure off the shoulder. My experience with that: I have 100 pieces of once fired Lapua .223 that I resized in a seperate session. Then a week later I resized the 400 other pieces of "new" Lapua brass to prep for trimming. My sizing die is on its own toolhead, and never gets adjusted. However, the "slight" amount of play of the toolhead in the press did cause me a slight issue. The once fired (100 pieces) of resized brass and new brass I all threw into a pile. The brass that was resized in a seperate session, won't even trim! Some are 1.760" and the cutter head will not engage them.
I suspect what you're finding is that the headspace on the new Lapua brass is actually quite short. I use the Hornady gauge to measure headspace on my brass both before and after sizing. After firing my brass comes out almost exactly 1.4610" in headspace, measured with the Hornady tool. I set up my sizing die to set the shoulder back to 1.4580", and then set up the Giraud trimmer to trim those cases to 1.750" overall length.
The new Lapua brass I have measures quite a bit less, more like 1.4550" or even a bit less. I suppose that's so they know it will fit into any chamber it's likely to encounter, but it seems a bit excessive to me. SAAMI max chamber headspace is 1.4736", and minimum is 1.4636". That suggests that the new Lapua brass is going to stretch quite a lot when it's first fired, certainly a lot more than it needs to.
I would guess the difference in your trim lengths has to do with differences in the headspace between the new Lapua brass and your once-fired Lapua brass. If you've done what it sounds like you've done, you've set up the Giraud trimmer to cut the new Lapua brass to 1.750", but once it's fired the headspace is longer (as much as 0.010 based on your numbers, which fits with standard SAAMI chamber specs) so the overall length is coming out much longer. The trimmer is still trimming the same length from the shoulder to the end of the case neck, but the case itself is longer after it's been fired. Once they've all been fired you'll find this problem will more than likely go away, as they will all have been formed to your chamber.
If you don't have the Hornady Headspace Gauge Kit, it's well worth it. Use it to measure the headspace of your fired brass, which has been formed to your chamber. Then use it to set up the sizing die to bump the shoulder back 0.002" to 0.005" or so. The less you push back the shoulder, the more closely your finished rounds will fit in the chamber, and the less the brass will stretch when fired. Ultimately this means your brass will last longer as the case head isn't stretched out so much.
If you've not done this before, remember that in a semi-automatic, especially a gas gun like an AR15, you DO want to push the shoulders back at least 0.002", and personally I prefer 0.003" so the gun will run reliably. Bolt gun shooters can usually get away without bumping the shoulders at all, but that's not such a great idea for a semi-automatic.
As far as the chamfer not being uniform with the Giraud, that's my one small complaint as well. I have to twist the case around just like you do in order to get the end even and well chamfered. I suspect the cutter heads are just ever so slightly out of square. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I've found the same thing you have there.
Agrivere,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Been reloading for years on a single stage press, and only for recreational shooting. Have made some very accurate loads, but am still learning.
In fact, until I got into USPSA I never owned a progressive press (with exception of shotshell press). I never owned a case gage/loaded ammo case gage. For USPSA I bought one in .45ACP and have since bought them for every caliber I own (rifle).
I always setup the sizing die, "roughly". I think I need to read up/get schooled on proper sizing technique.
I'll buy that Hornady Headspace Gage kit this evening. Thanks for the education.
R/
Chris
Thanks Scott, it is on order!
Love this PROJECT!
R/
Chris
Chris,
you can always set that die up in your single stage, that would eliminate the play.
Thanks, Scott! I ordered the Hornady Headspace gauge kit last night. I always have used just a sharpie to mark cases. After looking at some videos for using the gauge kit, it looks like a good addition to my reloading kit!
--gb
Mike,
Unfortunately, I sold my single stage press. I should have retained it.
Oh well, I'll keep my eyes peeled for a steal on one.
R/
Chris
Chris,
for quantity reloading, take a look at the process used by Konrad Powers.
http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/reloading/reloading_procedure.html
My process is different. I deprime using a universal deprimer before cleaning and then resize after on a single stage press. The Cast Iron Lee, can make a good dedicated resizing press.
But the truth is that it won't really matter that much for most usage. That's part of what I learned from Konrad.
I'm clearly not shooting at Konrad Powers' level (yet!) but some of my best scores have been shot with ammo that was loaded almost the exact same way as Konrad describes on my Hornady Lock N Load. It definitely can work.
Having said that, I still prefer a more detailed loading process. Not remotely sure it's necessary or even helpful on the target but it helps my confidence to know that no effort was spared in making the best ammo I can.
I don't disagree, particularly on 600 yard ammo. At that range my acceptance level with a scale that measures to .00 grains is .02 or 2/100ths of a grain +- for 600 yards.
But I darn sure don't shoot like Konrad.
Here's an interesting aside. I was shooting beside John Hollinger of White Oak in the P100. I noticed after one of the stages that he had left his brass, and picked it up with mine to give to him. He told me then that he uses Black Hills seconds that he has tested uppers with for his reloads for High Power. That was enlightening. With the amount that he goes through for testing before shipping, he uses the brass once and then donates it to the nearest junior.
I throw my powder for 200 and 300 and then check every 5th round for +- .1 gr. It is usually within +-.06gr. That level has gotten me a number of mid 90's in each position and I know that when it doesn't it is me.