Project Appleseed

OK folks,
More research input wanted.

I looked over the available LTR candidates:
Semi 22's
Detachable magazines
capable of being worked to sim a big gun
ergonomic
features
accuracy as delivered
usability out of the box

I decided on the 795 Marlin as the best value you could get.
Commonly available at retail for $127. Has a usable trigger (easily made into a good trigger) 10 shot box mag easily available at reasonable price and an easy to operate bolt release. OOB accuracy was better than I could shoot, less than 3/8" at 25 yards with every one of the 6 brands tested.

If you have one, or have used one, tell me what you think.
I want the information for a possible AS promotion. 
I'll take comments from anyone that has used one.

Thank you

Sam

A friend of mine who' son my daughter is working with just recently bought one based on the price factor.  The things I noticed about it are:

1 - Typical of Marlin 22's, the stock sites are not worth the metal they are made of.  After market sights will require drill and tap to add.

2 - The mags fit tight and do not drop free.  This could probably be fixed as well.

3 - Typical of Marlin 22's.  Was very accurate.

4 - The synthetic stock is extremely cheap feeling.  But weight was a factor in the decision as my friend's son is only 8.

5 - Trigger was decent.

Of the 22's I currently have: 3 10/22 LTRs; 1 Marlin 60; and a Remington 597, I find the 10/22 best suited.  597 next best as after maket stuff is becoming more prevalent.  Receiver is already drilled and tapped and also accepts 22 style scope mounts without adding a rail.  Mags drop free every time.  Stock sights are relatively easy to adjust.  Bolt release is as expected with centerfire and locks back.

Those are my thoughts.

WRWIII

I haven't used one, but I'll stick to my Rugers.

Everything is available aftermarket, the mags drop free, and after a few simple modifications, they work well.

BTW a little birdie from Tech-Sight told me that there will be a NO GUNSMITHING model for the 60/795 available in about a month.

I like the fact that the 795it does the job without all those fancy and expensive mods.

Tale of an Appleseed Marlin.  After my first Appleseed I was looking around for an autoloader .22 Lr. I settled on a cheap, used, marlin 795. It had a wood stock and came from the factory with all of the features that folks were addin' to their 10-22s. An easy as pie mag release, a simple bolt release, a generous charging handle, accurate barrel and a trigger that was easily lightened.  I paid forty bucks for it at a pawnshop.  I put a cheap scope on cheap rings that clamp to the dovetail. I made Rifleman with that little set up. Other folks did too.

This fall I visited my Mother in between a couple of Appleseeds.  A lifelong shooter,she really wanted to earn a Riflemans patch.  We went out a few times to practice. Her 10-22 had a little too much length of pull for good sling use, so I had her use my Marlin. She fell in love with it, she sent her husband and I to town to buy a decent scope and mounts for it. With a nice BSA scope (the scope cost more than two times what I paid for the rifle) that little rifle would group 'em on a dime every time. 

What do you do when the person that gave you life and some of your finest firearms falls in love with your forty dollar pawnshop rifle?
Yep, it stayed at moms place and I brought home her Ruger Walmart special.  Now don't get me wrong, the Ruger is a pretty little rifle. If you keep the one screw that holds the whole thing together tightened up it shoots well enough. Length of pull is too much for a lot of folks. And the manual of arms is a little tricky ( I won't be adding bolt release extenders and magazine release thingies) but it's a good little .22.     

But I do kinda miss my ol' Marlin.

The Mossberg 702 plinkster is a very similar rifle. Very, very similar. The trigger is not quite as nice and the length of pull on the plastic stock is too much for most folks. I believe that the Mossberg is just a relabeled Magtech 70-22.

Wheeler44 

Just took ours out yesterday! Thanks for the heads up at Sportsman's Warehouse SamD. I bought it after we talked! :D

Shot Federal Bulk, Winchester Bulk and Remy "Golden Bullet" Bulk well under an inch at 25M. It's nearly as accurate as my tricked out Butler Creek 10/22 and has a slight accuracy edge over my stock barrel 10/22.

Most out of the box 10/22's I have worked with are all ammo fussy, but will at least shoot something sub-one inch or close at 25M. A lot of the folks on the various 22 forums concur that the Remy green box bulk "Golden Bullets", generally, though not always, are the most accurate bulk type ammo in these guns. 

However, the 795 pretty much gobbled up everything and was unbelievably accurate. Accuracy with everything was well under an inch. Some groups with the Remy bulk were 1/2". And this in less than 30 rounds in a new gun. :o  This is more than adequate for an AS LTR.

It has all the mods folks add to their 10/22's...including a huge rear bolt buffer. The trigger is long but breaks fairly light, nearly as good as the 10/22's. The reset is short and then the sear release is light. Mags are $19 from Midway and as mentioned above, are not drop free. They are however at least fairly easy to grab and pull out, especially as they wear in. 

I did have a few expected break-in malfs, and if those don't get worked out, I will report back.

The stocks sights are pretty crude, especially for my eyes, so I quickly put a cheap Bushnell 3-9  scope on it. It is not drilled and tapped, so you can only use the smaller 22 type rings on top of the grooved receiver.

The nice thing is this is a low cost $189 rifle and is good to go right out of the box.
The gun is easy to learn on and manipulate for a newbie. The length of pull will fit either an adult or child. It balances well and shoots good on the AQT stages.
TG

SamD,

Get hold of a board member from Ohio that goes by Frenchie here IF I have it right.

He built one from a Marlin 795 and shot it at Akron/Minerva, IIRC.

The Williams FP-TK-SG (foolproof, target knobs, scope groove) will easily clamp on the scope groove on the 795.  Then you have to install a higher front sight on the rifle to go with the rear sight.

IIRC, Tech Sights is bringing out a scope groove mounting sight also, partially for this rifle.

Buckshot

I had an email conversation with Larry at Tech-Sights this afternoon. They will run $69 +s&h
That sight will fit any grooved receiver. Make a lot more rifles LTR friendly.

Here are the las three shots from mine yesterday, on our closing "Redcoat"(shot in reverse order)
Winchester "Wildcat" ammo
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/sam_damewood/Redcoat.jpg)

It'll do it all day long if I do my part

Taos Glock
did you try yours yesterday in EP?
Congrats on the orange hat too. ;D

QuoteHere are the las three shots from mine yesterday,

I miss my Marlin.

Grab another one Wheeler.
In my book they have it all over the 10-22, and on alot more than price too.
Sam

I've got a Coast-to-Coast hardware model 42 rifle, which was manufactured by Marlin and is actually a 795 that pre-dates the relatively recent addition of the large bolt knob and bolt hold open.

Mine drops magazines quite easily when the mag release is hit.  I absolutely love the short-length stick magazines over the rotaries that are offered by Ruger for their 10/22.  Easier to insert and remove.

I'll admit mine doesn't shoot as well as SamD's, it is also about 30 years older and probably has several tens of thousands of rounds through it, as well as hundreds of clueless strokes of a metal cleaning rod that screwed up the crown and rifling.  Darn those little brothers and previous owners. :'(

It'll still shoot a Rifleman score though.

It's topped off with a 3-9x40 Swift scope.  I have 2x7rd magazines for it and 2x10rd magazines.

It is getting finicky in its old age.  Remington bulk clogs it up about 10-20% of the time.  Federal bulk cycles okay, but about 5% of the time I get a dud or a failure to feed.  Federal Automatch runs great in it, with much less than a 1% failure rate.  CCI stingers or minimags also run quite well, as does Wolf Match.  Runs much better with a very wet bolt, but then it also gets dirty and gummed up quickly.  It's really only good for about 100 rounds nowadays.

I've been pleased enough by it though, that I am willing to try a newer iteration of the same rifle.  I was actually quite pleased to see the number of 795's on the line at Albuquerque.

Quote from: SamD on October 21, 2008, 02:22:13 AM
Here are the las three shots from mine yesterday, on our closing "Redcoat"(shot in reverse order)
Winchester "Wildcat" ammo
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/sam_damewood/Redcoat.jpg)

It'll do it all day long if I do my part

Taos Glock
did you try yours yesterday in EP?
Congrats on the orange hat too. ;D

I had no takers on it at the EP AS. :'(  The group of 5 folks we brought all had firearms.  ;)
However, I had not shot any gun since our last AS together in Raton in Sept. ::) I have been coaching BlueFeather my wife to get "patched up".
So just for fun before, the EP shoot, I picked up the 795 and put her thru about a 3 min. AQT. Stage 1 offhand was a dream to shoot and the rifle balances perfectly.
This was with Remy bulk ammo. I felt I could do much better too.
Here is a pic:
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/9509/aqt1im6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Good to see yours is up to speed.
After a bit you'll come to really like that rifle.  I would put a little weight up front in the stock. hangs better.
I have a couple of extras already made that you can have for it.
I sent Blue Feather a "Welcome letter".
Suspected who it was but I wasn't sure, oops, she just replied so I know for sure!

Glad to see you have matching hats.
Looking forward to seeing you both soon

Sam

Get 'em quick!  I just ordered a set.

(http://www.tech-sights.com/marlinweb.jpg)

Hooray to them for following through on this!  I had given up hope they would ever be available, and I was going to go down the road of the evil 10/22 for a new LTR.  Now, I can retain my intent of purchasing a new 795 to replace my very ancient 795... and take advantage of the fact that the new 795's come equipped with bolt hold-opens already, and the stick mags are more insert/remove friendly than the rotaries of the Ruger!

Huzzah, Tech-Sights!  Huzzah!  Huzzah!

;D

Fandamntastic,
Been waiting for these.

Sam

After reading SamD's review of his Marlin LTR in another post I was thinkin' on buying one, but was waitin' on Tech Sights to make the sights available after hearing the rumor that they were in the works.

Good news, thanks.

I'm thinking of putting a Williams FP-AG-TK rear sight on my OTHER 795 and seeing how the Williams solution stacks up against the TechSights solution for ease of installation, cost, ease of adjustment on the range and accuracy.

But, I can't figure out which front sight to use to replace the factory Marlin sight with a Williams one!  Can someone help me out?

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/rifle.htm

Very cool!

I love my Marlin 60 and have been somewhat disappointed that it wasn't the best LTR because of the sights. Now, seems like that problem's been remedied.

Coupled with a spee-D-loader and a GI sling, I have another LTR sitting in the closet right now.

AWESOME!!!!

You'll have  to do a physical measurement to determine the front sight needed. Determine teh difference in height above bore of the stock sights, the new rear you want to use and them add that difference to teh front to get your height.  You can also cheat.
Replace the front with a piece of twisted wire or tape and using it as a front sight, test fire and chop off pieces till you see what height you need. On dovetail fronts, replace the front with a roofing nail, test shoot, cut to height and test again, and again and again, then measure nail to determine what height you need

Sam

Anybody tried them out on a Remmie 597?  I've got one of those that's suffering from the OEM sights.

I don't think anyone has tried them out yet.
Just released in the last couple of days.

Sam

I received my sights yesterday.  Fast service. ;D

Yanked the Swift 3-9x40 scope of my rifle and installed the rear sight.

My rifle is actually a "Coast to Coast Hardware Stores model 42."  That being said... it's a marlin 795.  Very old, but still a Marlin 795.

But... the front sight was actually a band around the entire barrel, with no hole drilled and tapped!  I have to find a gunsmith to drill and tap the set-screw for the front sight.

Can anyone recommend a smith in North Phoenix or North Glendale that can do this for me?  I don't want to drive 25 miles to the nearest one I know of.

Quote from: didactic on November 10, 2008, 02:03:20 PM
Anybody tried them out on a Remmie 597?  I've got one of those that's suffering from the OEM sights.

And my Remmie 572 is whining about my not getting Tech Sights for it too.
I wonder IF ....

I sent an email to Tech Sights so .... we shall see didactic we shall see.
{He crosses his fingers ....}




Watch for PM

AZ:

You can drill and tap with the proper tools...probably buying the tools will be the same cost as having a gunsmith do it.

I used the Williams FP etc rear sight on my 795 LTR last year, and then used a Marlin 336 front base and blade (all from Brownells).  The bases are availible in different heights. A little file work can drop the front sight or thin it up on the sides (I thinned mine up a bit, then dabbed on a little cold blue).

I've shot both my 795 and a 10/22 at an Appleseed...the Marlin was far more reliable in terms of feeding (and I don't really clean it much either) and cheaper overall. 

Received mine in yesterdays mail. Didn't get a chance to install them till last night, because TaosGlock and I were checking out the range for the 27-28 Dec Alamogordo Appleseed.
I'm heading out to the yard to check them out now. .
Look good and give a clear picture.

Sam

Tech Sight performance.

It took some tweaking. The front post had to come up a bit to allow zero, I dropped a piece of #2 shot underneath it for now.
20 shots kneeling(the range is soggy today) 50 ft target at 25 yards.

(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h191/sam_damewood/11-18kneeling0001.jpg)

I think the sights are usable as is the kneeling position

Guess now I need to learn to shrink those pictures a bit ;D

Sam

I'm fixin' to buy one of these and I typically like stainless better than blued steel, but for those of you that own 'em which one do y'all like better in this particular rifle?

The targets TaosGlock posted below were with a stainless 795.
he likes it pretty well so does BlueFeather.
Thay can give you some firsthand commentary when they get back from the As in AZ.

My highest 25M AQT score was shot with that little 795. :) Better than the one posted.  ;D
It's a breeze to field strip. It has a built in buffer and the bolt pops right out for cleaning.
It has dual extractors unlike the 10/22.
I still like my tricked out 10/22's, but this is an impressive rifle for the price and the standard features.

I bought a new, blued Marlin 795 for about $60 less than what a stainless one would have cost.  The difference just about covers the cost of a set of Tech Sights (on order).   Testing with a 3x scope, it doesn't seem to have a preference for any particular ammo (tested Fed Champion #510 lead bullet, Fed and Remington bulk pack JHP).  It'll easily keep 5 shots in a 1" square at 25 meters.  While the trigger pull is more than the 5.5# weight of the rifle & scope it is quite managable and I'm not going to mess with it.  Makes you focus on follow-through  ;D.  Based on SamD's advice, I'm going to weight the forend with some shot.  I'm also getting a bore snake to clean it.  BTW, I believe the synthetic stock is the same for the blued or the stainless rifle.  Since it's going to be primarily a 'loner' LTR, I didn't feel the need to put a lot of money into it. 

Stainless vs. blued?  If the whole gun is stainless it may have some longterm wear issues.  Many years ago when S&W began making SS handguns there were issues with increased wear that led to malfunctions.  They solved this by changing from SS parts to hard chromed parts for some of the internal parts that "rub" against each other.  Even then I've seen S&W revolvers "lock up" from the cylinder galling on the crane.  Some manufacturers recognized these issues better and did a better job of "mixing" up the grades of SS in their firearms and galling isn't nearly as big a problem.  I'm speakin from personal experience with handguns here as I don't know anything about these Marlin SS rifles, I'm just trying to remind folks that SS doesn't mean problem free.

Even though SS may be more resistant to incidental handling/rusting than blued steel it still requires good cleaning and lubrication efforts if you're going to shoot it a lot.

This part is just personal opinion but I don't like the idea of a shiny rifle so if I had a SS rifle I'd camo paint it to "hide" it better.

Bought the blued one for 50 FRNs less than the stainless.  I would have bought the stainless one if I wasn't going to replace the factory sights as they are better.

Ordered 3 more mags from Brownells (Midway was out) and the Tech Sights.

Put 1 1/4" sling swivels and a black leather DPMS 1907 sling that I had laying around on it.  I'm a 1907 kinda guy, but it almost seems like overkill on this li'l rifle.  Ordered a black DPMS web sling for it as well and will see which one I like better for this application.

Haven't shot it (other than dry-fire  ;)), but will give a range report once I get the sights installed and zeroed.

Promises to be a neat li'l trainer if its accuracy and reliability live up to what others have shared.

Does anyone know if you can dry fire the 795 w/o damage like you can the 10/22 ??  I found a pretty good price on them and am considering picking a couple up to use as loaners.  Just cautious about the dry fire thing on a .22 rim.
EEL

The 10/22 owner's manual says specifically dry firing is okay.  I didn't see anything like that in the Marlin manual.

More checking might be advisable.  Chances are however that with the design that locks the bolt back on the last shot (unlike the 10/22) it is to keep the hammer from dropping on the firing pin with an empty chamber.

I don't remember seeing anything in the manual about it.
The firing pin is captive in  both directions and will no peen the edge of teh chamber.

I've noticed no problems after several hundred fry fires with mine.

Sam


Just for general Information.
All the magazines for Marlins auto's made after 1988 are supposed to be interchangable
Midway list the part number as 707135
Brownells list it as 407135 and is the part number from the Marlin manual
The 7 round magazine for the 70PSS will work in the 795.

Often these can be found on the rack at Wally World, Kmart, Big 5 and the like.

Thank you ashrn03 for reminding me to post this.

Now I we could get Marlin to put an Appleseed flyer in every box...

Sam

Tech-Sights came in yesterday.  Man that was fast - ordered Friday after Thanksgiving and they were shipped to TX in two days by the good ol' US Mail.  :o

Easily installed in about 5 minutes.

Still waiting on the extra mags, but they should be in later this week.

Will try to go shoot it this weekend and give a range report.

QuoteJust for general Information.
All the magazines for Marlins auto's made after 1988 are supposed to be interchangable
Midway list the part number as 707135
Brownells list it as 407135 and is the part number from the Marlin manual
The 7 round magazine for the 70PSS will work in the 795.

My "Marlin 795" is actually a Coast to Coast hardware stores model 42, made a bajillion years ago.  I picked it up perhaps 4th or 5th hand, maybe even more owners than that have been behind the sights of this beast.  I'd estimate it to be at least 30 years old, making it a 1970's era rifle.

It came with a 7 round magazine.

I ordered a 7rd and two 10rd mags from Marlin's website for the 795 series rifles and they fit perfectly, working every bit as reliably as the original mag.

A bit of internet scavenging shows this rifle to correlate to the Marlin model 70 rifles of that era, of which the only similar remnant in current production is the Marlin 70PSS "Papoose" rifle.

So, it seems Marlin has not changed the magazine specifications for the 795 series rifles from the older 70 series.

Also, my Tech Sights fit the Coast to Coast 42 / Marlin 70 / Pre-795 rifle perfectly... I just had to have the front sight screw hole drilled and tapped.  My rifle's old front sight was a barrel-band style sight and held in place by a tensioning screw (and some glue... yuck).

Looking at this new iteration of Tech Sights, they should accomodate fans of the Remington 597 series rifles, too.  I don't know the status of a screw hole for the front sight, but $25 at your local smith should rectify that quite easily.  Also, Marlin 60 owners may now rejoice.  A set of TechSights and a Spee-D-Loader (http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0012788222343a.shtml) will make your old trusty 60 completely "Appleseed-worthy."

Shot her today for the first time.

Here's a pic and a target with a ten-shot group (target black is 1-inch).

The flyer to the right is due to driver error while getting used to the trigger after shooting my AR in a HP match this morning.  (BTW - the HP shooters are excited about the upcoming AS events at our range  ;))

Shot about 35 rounds of Winchester DynaPoint ammo with zero failures.

Plan on taking one of the kids in the morning to work on some AQTs.   8)

Was it worth the money ;)

You betcha!  O0

Quote from: Buckshot on October 16, 2008, 11:37:58 PM
SamD,

Get hold of a board member from Ohio that goes by Frenchie here IF I have it right.

He built one from a Marlin 795 and shot it at Akron/Minerva, IIRC.

The Williams FP-TK-SG (foolproof, target knobs, scope groove) will easily clamp on the scope groove on the 795.  Then you have to install a higher front sight on the rifle to go with the rear sight.

IIRC, Tech Sights is bringing out a scope groove mounting sight also, partially for this rifle.

Buckshot

Yes, I did.  The 795 is a half-price LTR with better overall reliability than the 10/22.  I've shot the 795 and a 10/22 at Appleseeds and the Marlin gets the nod for value.

With the arrival of Tech Sights, go get those.  My way was not very difficult and required no tapping, but you can't beat right off the shelf.

Quote from: wcmartin1 on December 06, 2008, 04:53:39 PM
Plan on taking one of the kids in the morning to work on some AQTs.   8)

Both the kids wanted to sleep-in, but me and Rick went to the range this morning for our usual ritual.

Managed to shoot a 227-9 with it on the one and only AQT I shot today while Rick was shooting his SKS.

Then I let Rick shoot the li'l gun and he liked it so well he's planning on getting one for his wife.  ::)

Thanks Frenchie,
Sorry I forgot to follow up on Buckshot's suggestion.

Sometime in the near future I intend to approach Marlin about helping us promote and support Appleseed.

This information may help me persuade them to do that.

Sam

Quote from: SamD on December 07, 2008, 04:33:05 PM
Sometime in the near future I intend to approach Marlin about helping us promote and support Appleseed.

Speaking of... I was impressed that the box my Tech Sights came in contained some Appleseed literature as well. 

Very cool. O0

QuoteThe front post had to come up a bit to allow zero, I dropped a piece of #2 shot underneath it for now.

+1.  I also found that I had to elevate the front sight a bit to find zero.

Very consistent though.

No #2 shot, but a #7-1/2 worked well enough to where the rear sight adjustment could zero the 25m group.  The caution about using blue loctite on the securing screws also applies to the front sight post allen screw ::).  Fortunately I was on an indoor range when the post fell out: took about 500 rounds for the allen screw to loosen up.  Talk about luck, I even found the piece of shot!  That's the second time the post fell off.  The front sight came from the factory with that allen screw loose; fortunately (again) I'd just swept the garage floor . . :o.       

Found a great deal on a Marlin 795.  I want to get it for my wife for when we go up to the Appleseed shoot in WY in May.  She already has a Marlin model 60, but it's tube fed.  The 795 is mag fed.  And I already have tech-sights aperture sights for the model 60 that will swap right over to the 795.  It comes with a 10 round magazine (only one).  Problem is, only spare mags I can find for a 795 are 7 round magazines. 

Are 7 round magazines enough capacity for participating in Appleseed events?  Because when it comes to spare mags, those 7 rounders are abundant.  Just can't find any 10s anywhere.

Trin.
You could do with the 7 rd mags but ,

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=171532&t=22164010
Go here and you can order the 10 rd mags
They are currently backordered but don't expect it to be long.

Sam

If you don't want to wait for the 10 round mags. The seven round mags would work too.

During the rapid fire stages of the QDAQT she would simply prep the existing 10 round mag with 8 rounds and one of the seven round mags with 2 rounds.

During the standing stage and the slow fire prone stage, she would use the one 10 round magazine that came with the Rifle.

Hope this helps.

~SS

Quote from: SamD on January 25, 2009, 12:41:09 AM
Trin.
You could do with the 7 rd mags but ,

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=171532&t=22164010
Go here and you can order the 10 rd mags
They are currently backordered but don't expect it to be long.

Sam

Awesome, Sam - thanks.  That site says they are expected 2/4/09.  That isn't long at all.

Quote from: SavageShootr on January 25, 2009, 12:50:07 AM
If you don't want to wait for the 10 round mags. The seven round mags would work too.

During the rapid fire stages of the QDAQT she would simply prep the existing 10 round mag with 8 rounds and one of the seven round mags with 2 rounds.

During the standing stage and the slow fire prone stage, she would use the one 10 round magazine that came with the Rifle.

Hope this helps.

~SS

That helps a lot - thanks.  Then we will get the Marlin.  She likes the Marlin better than the Ruger 10/22.  The 795 has the same action as her Marlin model 60, and she likes the weight better than the weight of the 10/22.  I can swap the sights right over - that will save some $$$.

Quote from: Trin Tragula on January 25, 2009, 12:58:35 AM

Quote from: SavageShootr on January 25, 2009, 12:50:07 AM
If you don't want to wait for the 10 round mags. The seven round mags would work too.

During the rapid fire stages of the QDAQT she would simply prep the existing 10 round mag with 8 rounds and one of the seven round mags with 2 rounds.

During the standing stage and the slow fire prone stage, she would use the one 10 round magazine that came with the Rifle.

Hope this helps.

~SS

That helps a lot - thanks.  Then we will get the Marlin.  She likes the Marlin better than the Ruger 10/22.  The 795 has the same action as her Marlin model 60, and she likes the weight better than the weight of the 10/22.  I can swap the sights right over - that will save some $$$.

Or load two seven-rounders with five and five.  <:)

BTW - I got my mags at Brownells, but they appear to be sold out as well.

Midway has extended the 'backorder' date on the Marlin mags twice in the last two months (before it was 2/09 it was 1/19).  If you can find one, I'd grab a 7-round mag just to be safe.

Very pleased with the 795; it was good right out of the box. Only thing to be careful of is putting any pressure on the mag while shooting; that causes feeding problems.  As long as you don't touch it (and you shouldn't if your positions are correct) the rifle works fine.   

Quote from: ashrn03 on January 25, 2009, 01:17:14 AM
Midway has extended the 'backorder' date on the Marlin mags twice in the last two months (before it was 2/09 it was 1/19).  If you can find one, I'd grab a 7-round mag just to be safe.

Very pleased with the 795; it was good right out of the box. Only thing to be careful of is putting any pressure on the mag while shooting; that causes feeding problems.  As long as you don't touch it (and you shouldn't if your positions are correct) the rifle works fine.   

We're going to pick up the 795 from Gander Mountain today - they have a whole rack full of extra 7-round mags. I'll just pick up 3 or 4 of them as well, and order some 10-rounders and hope they come in.

Thanks for all the VERY speedy help, folks.  You guys rock!

TT

After some coaching my 16 year-old daughter shot Rifleman on her first AQT ever with the li'l Marlin today!  Huzzah!

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=1836.msg51687#msg51687

Saw that in GD.
Good on her. O0

If you were just starting out & wished to get your first 22 trainer rifle, would get a Marlin 795 or a 10/22 for your first Trainer rifle?? AND WHY???

Thanks, Bill

Marlin 795.  See the forum topic http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4148.0 Lots of good information.

The 795 is good to go right out of the box.  Add a set of Tech Sights, or a scope, and you're in business.  The only mod I've found useful is SamD's weight mod: 12 oz of lead in the forend recesses. 

Ditto on the 795.

Already has the bolt-hold open, and the stick mags are much better IMO for clearing the line.  The ones on my rifle drop free, but I've heard that the newer ones don't.  Use either Williams sights or TechSights and you've got some really nice apertures that help demonstrate IMC quite well.

And, the whole thing retails for about $50-$75 less.

I went ahead and picked up two 795s today.  One for the missus, to replace her tube-fed Marlin model 60, and one for me.  I scrapped the idea of shooting at the Appleseed event with my AR and a .22 conversion kit.  That other Marlin we have has been so reliable, and the price was very decent.  Decent enough to just get two of them.  Already had a pair of tech-sights for her model 60, so I swapped them over.  I ordered another set for mine.

Big Marlin fan here....

What does the manual say, OK to dry fire the Marlin?

795 hands down. Out of the box it's a winner.
The controls make the rifle a dream, especially for newbies and youth on the line. Speeds up the learning curve for them.
Unlike the rotary mags of the 10/22, the 795's straight line mags work flawlessly and are easily cleaned.
It can't be dry fired unless a mag is in it, so during prep you just squeeze a trigger that dies not click or reset.
The gun is not ammo fussy and the micro-groove barrel shoots as good as my expensive tricked out heavy match barrel 10/22. :-[

That looks like a wonderful LTR rifle, can a magazine be rendered as a dry firing device-only, and painted red to distinguish it from "live" mags? Alternatively - could an enterprising individual whittle a stub of wood from Home Despot into such a device? ;) Adapt...overcome..... O0
I think that I may just have to work up an LTR from one of these to find out the answer. I'd be interested to see how my AQT scores differ between this Marlin and my M44US. :D

Quote from: Francis Marion on January 26, 2009, 01:20:29 AM
What does the manual say, OK to dry fire the Marlin?

That's a good question.  I have always been told that you should never dry fire any rimfire gun without having snap-caps in the chamber.  Centerfire OK because the firing pin hits nothing.  Rimfire because firing pin hits metal - should always have brass or other material such as a snap cap in there to take the hit.  That's what I've been told anyway.

Ruger says their 1022 is ok to dry fire; I didn't know if Marlin design also permits this.
So, the Marlin must have a mag in, or it won't trip the sear.
But if you have a mag in, the bolt locks back. 
  So, IF the Marlin is OK to dry fire,
Can you stick the mag in far enough to allow the cocked rifle to be snapped, but not so far in that it keeps the bolt back?
Or take the follower and spring out of a mag body, and insert the empty mag body to permit sear function, but not bolt retention.   

QuoteSo, the Marlin must have a mag in, or it won't trip the sear.
But if you have a mag in, the bolt locks back. 

That what a bolt release is for.

Sam

22LR snap caps   Just because I like it simple and easy. O0

Many of you folks already know this:  The Marlin model 795 rifle is incredible.  I bought two of them last weekend.  One for my wife and one for myself to take to the Appleseed shoot in May.  Her military sights from her Marlin Model 60 fit perfectly.  The sights were already zeroed on the 60, and only needed slight adjustment to zero on the 795.  I put another pair on order from tech-sights for mine - should be here in a day or two.

Both rifles shot flawlessly, without a single jam.  Winchester Super X 40 grain, CCI mini-mag 40 grain, CCI mini-mag hollow point 36 grain, and Remington bulk 36 grain from WalMart.  All fed and fired perfectly.  Both rifles shot tight groups.  My wife was putting out the center of the target from 25 yards with her iron sights right off the bat.

$169 each bucks at Gander Mountain - included a scope.  Black synthetic stock - very light.

They are a nice shooter.
I put a couple of weights in the forend of mine, approx 12 oz. and it seems to make a lot of difference in balance and shootability.   Several others have done the same with good results.

I think you'll be more than happy with them.

Sam

I love my 10-22s

My oldest (of three) was born about 3 years after I was SN 68xxx. God only knows how many rounds have been fired through it, and because I'll never have a safe queen it's still doing duty, and flawlessly went through another 500 rounds of bulk ammo last weekend.

I have no better argument than a 40+ year old rifle with as many thousand rounds through it, that still shoots better than I do.

I have nothing against the 795, obviously it's an excellent rifle, but, like the old Volkswagen beetle that could be anything from a street car to a Baja racer, if it can be done with a 22 you'll find aftermarket parts for the 10-22 that will turn it into whatever you want it to be.

What's the procedure for doing that?  What did you use for weights, and where exactly did you put it?  The rifle is just right for my wife, but a little light for me.

Trin,
I used some sections of 20 ga. bbl that Ihad turned down to line a Damascus gun with.
They measured .719" OD, are cut to 2.48" and poured full of lead.

ashrn03 has told me that 1/2 EMT(conduit) is .710. That is close enough. Just cut it to length, punch 3-4 dimples in it to mechanically hold the lead after it cools. Stand it on end on a board, hold down with vise grips, and pour it full of molten lead.  Any old alloy will do.  After it cools, file off any that works out the bottom and any overflow.  Secure it in the forend with RTV or rubber cement.

Sam

Another way to achieve the same end is to mix some 2 part epoxy with lead shot and smooth into place with an old butter knife.

Well, I have both, and both are equipped with Tech Sights.  For my money the Marlin is superior in nearly every respect, from operation, to accuracy, to controls.  That said, I love the 10/22, it's just a nice little rifle that feels and shoots like a rifle, not the AirSoft sorta feeling I get from the Marlin.  Maybe if the 795 had a wood stock I'd feel differently, but there it is.  There are two huge distinctions between the two, length of pull (14.5" for the 795 vs. 13.5" for the 10/22), and after market support.  The list of stuff available for the 10/22 is staggering, for the Marlin there's only one thing, the Tech Sights.  Not that I need to trick out a gun, but it's cool to have the option.  For what I spent in getting the 10/22 into LTR trim, I could have bought 2 Marlins.  YMMV.

You can get an extended butt plate for the Ruger.

I've never had a Marlin but I've heard good things about the older ones.

I choose Rugers.  I've done stuff with one of my Ruger revolvers that I don't think most guns would survive so I believe between the thinking that went into the design as well as the effort that went into the fabrication, they are hard to beat.

The Marlin 795 seems like an interesting rifle, I'm contemplating getting one, but I was wondering about the new tech sights for these and the reports of the front sight post not being long enough.  What size front post would you guys recommend for these sights on this rifle?

Quote from: Ninsho on March 19, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
The Marlin 795 seems like an interesting rifle, I'm contemplating getting one, but I was wondering about the new tech sights for these and the reports of the front sight post not being long enough.  What size front post would you guys recommend for these sights on this rifle?

Front sight is adequate.  You merely have to loosen a set screw and raise it when zeroing.  Don't forget to lock-tite in place.

Thats good to know.  I'm going to try and check one of these rifles out tomorrow, sounds like a great inexpensive LTR option.

I made a proper front post for ashrn03 but I'll be D@%#ed if I can find my note on how tall I had to make it.

Sam

I had to file the base pin down to get the flange to rest on the sight base, then I filed the post down until the group was the proper elevation.  I'll measure the final dimensions tomorrow.  I'm thinking you left the post at least 0.020" taller than the original.  I recall the birdshot I used to raise the original post was 0.010" diameter.

Thanks ashrn03.
I usually make notes and drawings on stuff like that and didn't that time.

Sam

Anyone know if they would work on a Savage 189S ?

YES! Now I dont have to go buy one of those dang 10/22's to make a LTR O0

Quote from: Frenchie on November 15, 2008, 11:25:55 PM
AZ:

You can drill and tap with the proper tools...probably buying the tools will be the same cost as having a gunsmith do it.

I used the Williams FP etc rear sight on my 795 LTR last year, and then used a Marlin 336 front base and blade (all from Brownells).  The bases are availible in different heights. A little file work can drop the front sight or thin it up on the sides (I thinned mine up a bit, then dabbed on a little cold blue).

I've shot both my 795 and a 10/22 at an Appleseed...the Marlin was far more reliable in terms of feeding (and I don't really clean it much either) and cheaper overall. 

I like Marlin rifles. I bought a Marlin 336 lever gun, stainless steel version (30.30) and love it. I put Williams Full Proof receiver sights on it along with a Williams fiber optic front sight. Nice rifle, looks good (carbine) and has tremendous knockdown power with the 30.30 old school round.  For the knockdown power it possesses, its short, light and handy.

Marlins are also inexpensive. And some of the big bore lever guns, while they have no range compared to an M1A, M-1 Garand or even an AR-15, the big bore Marlin lever guns in 45-70 or .444 Marlin have tremendous knockdown power.  :o  Marlin big bore lever guns make a 30.06 or .308 look like a .22 isolated at just knockdown power.

These lever guns are the guns that won the Wild West, afterall!

Dont know anything about the Marlin .22's, but Im sure they are fine rifles.

Eric

Did you notice how these new tech sights attach?  One of them little T0-9 rails, same as you can get for your 10/22.  A post over at Rimfire states taht these will work on 10/22, but you might have to change out the front sights.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254517

Hey all,
picked up mine over @ Big 5 a few weeks ago, got the GI sling & my little scope on it, then started searching for 10 rd mags.......everybody previously mentioned was/is still out of stock, back ordered.....

I found a place called www.MidwestHuntersOutlet.com that has the 10 rounders for $16.99 ea...PN = Marlin 707135
S&H was $8.95.......4 new mags brought it to $76.91 to my doorstep..... @@)

Make sure they stay clean, & they won't stick as much..... @)

My $.02.......I -hate- waiting for backorders........ !@#)

LLP

Any ideas on how to improve/extend that mag-release?

I' d like to point out that marlin is running a $20 rebate on the 795 until the end of this month. 

Thanks Red Headed Stranger.
Between the $135 price ordering from Wal Mart and the rebate, that's a terrific deal

Sam,

Quote from: AFTERMATH on April 23, 2009, 09:21:16 PM
Any ideas on how to improve/extend that mag-release?

I haven't really noticed any issues with the mag release over the course of a thousand or so rounds, I just move my trigger finger, pull up and back and they drop right out.

I have noticed that the bolt doesn't always lock to the rear after the last round, and I'm not quite sure what might be causing that.  Any ideas?

QuoteI have noticed that the bolt doesn't always lock to the rear after the last round, and I'm not quite sure what might be causing that.  Any ideas?

With all mags or just 1?

Sam

Good question.  I don't know for sure.  I have 5 mags and just grab one as needed.  I think you might have hit on something, though.  I'll have to check it out.

As a smith I'll the first thing I check on something like that is the magazines.
Then work my way back from there.

Sam

Has anyone had any experience with these magazines? 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/national-magazine-15-rd-marlin-mag.aspx?a=359221

Quote from: red headed stranger on April 29, 2009, 10:31:17 PM
Has anyone had any experience with these magazines? 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/national-magazine-15-rd-marlin-mag.aspx?a=359221

Not personally, but there's a few threads over at rimfirecentral where guys claim they suck. :-\

Like I said though, can't vouch for that. 

Quote from: red headed stranger on April 29, 2009, 10:31:17 PM
Has anyone had any experience with these magazines? 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/national-magazine-15-rd-marlin-mag.aspx?a=359221

Yes.  I bought 4, and returned them the next day.  Absolute garbage.  Avoid at all costs.


Sam, thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.
If you don't mind, how do I go about lightening the trigger pull?

15 rimmed cartridges in a stick mag is just begging for trouble.

Begin by POLISHING all friction surfaces with 800 grit or finer.
Then POLISH the engagement surface of the sear with a piece of brown paper bag wrapped on a popsicle stick.
Yes the brown paper is abrasive, but very fine like say 1800 grit.  Then lube lightly and put it back together.
If that isn't enough, I'll make you a drawing for the next step, if you dare  #)

Quote from: AFTERMATH on April 30, 2009, 12:14:08 AM
15 rimmed cartridges in a stick mag is just begging for trouble.

It's not even that.  The mags will not even fit into the rifle.  I suppose you could spend a bunch of time and effort sanding and fiddling, but they're really not worth it.  Not only that, but the followers don't fit properly into the mag, and loading them with only 9 rounds was futile, they were bound up tight with 8 rounds.  All of them.  Junk.

Quote from: SamD on April 30, 2009, 12:39:10 AM
Begin by POLISHING all friction surfaces with 800 grit or finer.
Then POLISH the engagement surface of the sear with a piece of brown paper bag wrapped on a popsicle stick.
Yes the brown paper is abrasive, but very fine like say 1800 grit.  Then lube lightly and put it back together.
If that isn't enough, I'll make you a drawing for the next step, if you dare  #)

Thank you, Sir!  The trigger is pretty good to begin with, but I just want to make it that "n^th" better.  The stock trigger is better than my lovely bride's 10/22 trigger after I added a bunch of high dollar parts to the Ruger.

It's also worth noting that I shot Rifleman with this fine system on my very first day of Appleseeding.  I highly recommend this rifle!

Oh, and BTW, the little rifle has put countless squirrels and more than a few cottontails into the stew pot.  Yumm!

The gun needs medal trigger guard and a extended mag release and you could improve a good gun and make it a grate gun. ;)
   I am thanking of trying to add some lead (1/2" to an inch ) to the inside the bottom of a 10 round mag to help gravity do it's thing and I thank the extra force on the mag spring will help insure that the bolt locks back too. ++)

Thanks, Fredfunder

QuoteThe gun needs medal trigger guard

It doesn't need a "medal" trigger guard. You would like a metal one. The plastic works just fine. It holds the safety mechanism perfectly, keeps crap from inadvertently engaging the trigger and provides a pivot point for the trigger.

Quoteand a extended mag release and you could improve a good gun

The magazine release is easy to reach and releases the magazine.  You would like a different one.

Quoteand make it a grate gun.

Never seen a grate gun, seen several great guns and the 795 is one  O0 and does good without mods  8)

Here is the thing:
everyone would like to personalize their rifle to some degree.  The only advantage the 10-22 seems to have in this regard is that many many different companies make a multitude of gewgaws and whimmiediddles that can be strapped on to it to attempt to make up for it's shortcomings.

Personally I like it pretty much just the way it is.

Now we need to go talk "software" like the rifle control unit MK1, Device, Human Interface, U/I ea. 1

Sam,
I was considering making some dry-fire dummy rds.  Is that even needed, or just nice to have?  I'm concerned the firing pin/chamber might get messed up from contacting the rim of the chamber; should I be?

Quote from: SamD on April 30, 2009, 08:59:30 PM


Now we need to go talk "software" like the rifle control unit MK1, Device, Human Interface, U/I ea. 1

Along with a properly aligned I-Ball Mk.1 Optic System.... ;D


One other thing I've noticed; over tightening the trigger group can cause the the bolt release to become non-functional.  So, just tight is tight enough.

Hi Staplegund,
You don't need a dummy.
The Marlin Firing pin is made at the proper length to allow dry firing.
The mag safety gets in the way a bit but just throw one in and use the bolt release.

The seem to perform best just like a bolt gun Robbvious, snug the front nicely, about 2 grrs and then have a 3 year old granddaughter tighten the rear much as she can with 1 hand.  ;)

The only time I use snap caps is when Im working on the rifle and need to test the action like after replacing that recoil pad. Still cringe any time I dry fire a rim fire rifle old habits die hard.

795 is a great 22 just wish magazines were easier to find only have 1 ten and 2 seven rounders at the time but looking for more. Any one using the tech-sights on this rifle yet? Have a set ordered so kind of impatient to see how it works.

I can find mags easily at Gander MT. or Mills Fleetfarm.  But I'm not sure how well they're spread throughout the country.

I have found them at everywhere from Big5 to Wally World.
Right now they are in short supply but they keep showing up here and there.

I have the Tech Sights on mine and I'm happy with them.   Did make a taller front post but other than that they have been great.  If it feels abit light for you pour some melted lead in a chunk of 1/2 EMT, cut to 2.4" when cool and put inside the forend. Makes a big difference.

Sam

QuoteThe gun needs medal trigger guard

It doesn't need a "medal" trigger guard. You would like a metal one. The plastic works just fine. It holds the safety mechanism perfectly, keeps crap from inadvertently engaging the trigger and provides a pivot point for the trigger.

Yes, I'll like a metal trigger guard.  I have a cracked plastic trigger that came on a new in the box Marlin 795 and yes Marlin made it good! O0 But it was cracked !

Quoteand a extended mag release and you could improve a good gun
The magazine release is easy to reach and releases the magazine.  You would like a different one.

Yes, I'll like a extended mag release,  It is easy to reach but a extended mag release woud be better and quicker in my opinion  ++)

Quoteand make it a grate gun.

Never seen a grate gun, seen several great guns and the 795 is one   and does good without mods 

Sorry, I'll use spell check next time. >:D

QuoteHere is the thing:
everyone would like to personalize their rifle to some degree.  The only advantage the 10-22 seems to have in this regard is that many many different companies make a multitude of gewgaws and whimmiediddles that can be strapped on to it to attempt to make up for it's shortcomings.

Personally I like it pretty much just the way it is.

That is your right and your opinion. ("Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.") It is a great gun but to make it better to suits me and my needs, a medal trigger guard and a extended mag release is what I'll like to see on my Marlin 795.  Thanks & Have a Great Day, Fredfunder.

So the 795 holds the bolt open on an empty magazine,
and due to mag safety, needs to have a mag in place to dry fire.

To streamline the dry firing process,
Can you wedge a dime into an empty mag to defeat the hold open feature,
or take the mag spring out,
or place the mag partially into the rifle to engage the mag safety, but not the bolt hold open feature. 

Recently bought 6 new magazines for the 795 directly from Marlin. Phoned 1-800-544-8892 and ordered the magazines. Received them in less than 1 week. Bought in March, I think they were about $18. each plus shipping. The 795 is a GREAT little .22. Thank you Sam D. for the recommendation. The wife and I each own them and have had zero failures , including a recent Appleseed weekend with very high winds and blowing dust. They are not ammo fussy either. My 10/22's don't get out much anymore.

Quote from: Francis Marion on May 01, 2009, 10:57:32 AM
So the 795 holds the bolt open on an empty magazine,
and due to mag safety, needs to have a mag in place to dry fire.

To streamline the dry firing process,
Can you wedge a dime into an empty mag to defeat the hold open feature,
or take the mag spring out,
or place the mag partially into the rifle to engage the mag safety, but not the bolt hold open feature. 

Another alternative if your ideas do not work due to the mechanics of this rifle:  Snap Caps for .22 are available, feed thru a magazine, and prevent dry fire damage to firing pins on rifles that are subject to this type of damage.

Quote from: Francis Marion on May 01, 2009, 10:57:32 AM
So the 795 holds the bolt open on an empty magazine,
and due to mag safety, needs to have a mag in place to dry fire.

To streamline the dry firing process,
Can you wedge a dime into an empty mag to defeat the hold open feature,
or take the mag spring out,
or place the mag partially into the rifle to engage the mag safety, but not the bolt hold open feature. 

If you would like to entirely avoid liability and safety issues, fabricate a LavaTech Special Marlin 795 Inherently Inert Dry Firing Magazine ©; like the one pictured. ;D

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/LavaTech/Marlin%20795/MAG_1.jpg)

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/LavaTech/Marlin%20795/MAG_2.jpg)

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/LavaTech/Marlin%20795/MAG_3.jpg)

(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/LavaTech/Marlin%20795/MAG_4.jpg)

A sign stake laying around was the material donor; 15 minutes of whittling. Operates the Magazine Lever Assembly but not the bolt hold open. ^-^

Quotemedal trigger guard

Sorry I can not resist
An ARCOM or an MSM

Just picked up my Marlin LTR at Gander Mountain today.  Now to order some tech sights, spare mags, and of course, fabricate me a LavaTech Special Marlin 795 Inherently Inert Dry Firing Magazine ©!  %)

Quote from: zombiehunter on May 04, 2009, 01:26:27 AM
Just picked up my Marlin LTR at Gander Mountain today.  Now to order some tech sights, spare mags, and of course, fabricate me a LavaTech Special Marlin 795 Inherently Inert Dry Firing Magazine ©!  %)

The 795 I bought at Gander Mountain included a scope and mounts (package deal).  The scope (Bushnell) is fine, the mounts were not: they kept slipping on the receiver dovetail.  I messed around with them for a month then replaced them with $12 Leupold rimfire rings from Wallyworld.  No problems since. 

Yup.  That's the one I got; the "795W" - which designates that it comes with Bushnell scope and rings.  I haven't bothered mounting the scope on it yet, but thanks for the reco on the Leupold rings.  Did you try locktite on your stock rings, or was the problem that the mounts wouldn't hold the rail tight enough?

So what kind of scope would YOU want to put on a 795ltr?

I just bought one to replace my "opps I screwed up reassembling the trigger group and now you need to be thor to pull the trigger" 702 plinkster with a broken front sight blade.  ++) My only issue so far is the sights so I figured I am going to put a scope on it and probably techsights down the road.

Suggestions?

Quote from: zombiehunter on May 04, 2009, 01:06:57 PM
Yup.  That's the one I got; the "795W" - which designates that it comes with Bushnell scope and rings.  I haven't bothered mounting the scope on it yet, but thanks for the reco on the Leupold rings.  Did you try locktite on your stock rings, or was the problem that the mounts wouldn't hold the rail tight enough?

The rings held the scope OK: I couldn't tighten the mounts enough to 'grab' the dovetail securely; they just kept slipping back down the receiver !@#).  Since the 795 "package" is so common now, it's something I look for at each Appleseed.  Hint: if you set the front ring just shy of the end of the dovetail, it makes it much easier to 'eyeball' quickly to see if the whole assembly is heading back off the receiver.  The old mounts had to be tightened every 100 rounds or so: the new ones are quiet as concrete.

Devnull; my personal choice for 22 scopes are 4X, or smaller, fixed power.  The fixed power scopes are generally shorter, and permit positioning the eyepiece farther forward, than a variable.  The result is a larger scope picture.  I don't know who makes such a scope these days; most of those I have (2-1/2X or 3X Weaver, Redfield, Lyman) I've scrounged, used, from various sources.  For 25 meter shooting (when you're focusing on the crosshairs, right?  ;)) you don't need higher power.  However, a variable, which are much more common, will work: just set it to 3X.  The 795 in question, with the 3-9X Bushnell, is a 'loaner' with one Rifleman to it's credit  O0. 

BSA makes a nifty 4X scope for about $35 OTD. I have been using a couple of these for awhile now on other rifles. WW has them in stock as do most gunshops.

For my LTR's, I did have to build up the comb to get a proper cheekweld/sight pic. I used a slip on ammo carrier and a piece of plumbers foam insulation. It comes in different thicknesses.  It does not take much thickness either to solve the problem. I use the thicker foam, but YMMV. Cut a 4" piece or so, put on the foam, wrap tightly with tape just enough to eliminate the excess "squishiness" and then slip on the neoprene ammo carrier. And yes, my 795's all have the weighted fore-end too.

One of the shooters at the LC AS (after hearing the SHF's) pulled out an Ace bandage and a pad during prep and immediately solved his scope/cheekweld problem.
Amazing how inventive and attentive some folks are. ^-^  I also carry spare foam and tape for emergency "buildups". Some folks bring rifles with very high rings and don't want to use the iron sights.

I use Leupold "Low" 22 rings and double up on them. The scope is on rock solid.  As you know, our LTR's get a good workout. I use a variable 3-9 Bushnell. It can just be mounted forward enough for all positions when on 3-4 power. Same set up (scope/foam cheekpiece) for my 10/22 LTR's.
Great LTR set up and I have 3 set up this way and all shoot "Rifleman" easily and handily.
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9664/795ltr.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=795ltr.jpg)

Dryfire Magazine Mod

I used a yellow chamber flag and push down on the Magazine Follower on a 10 round Magazine to the middle hole and put something in it like a Allen Wrench to make it dryfire only and practice dryfire at home.  I hope the picture works. Thanks, fredfunder.

(http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6917/marlin795magmod.jpg) (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marlin795magmod.jpg)

Thanks for the suggestions. I ended up going with a cheap center point scope from survivalmart (You know, the wall one) and it seems to be ok. Certainly not a Leopold but still functional.

Now I have a couple more questions that have creeped up.

The rifle came with a 10rd mag and I picked up the last 7rd they had. The 7rd mag drops free of the rifle for a nice quick mag change but the 10rd won't budge without me yanking on it whilst pushing the mag release. Anyone ever run into that before? I have seen some posts of people complaining about this rifle but as far as I can see the only real issue so far is that mag... Might just be a badun from the factory I guess.

Also has anyone bypassed the mag safety? Looking at the action it looks like all you would have to do is lock that little metal arm on the side of the trigger group up and it would work for dryfiring. Just thought I would see if anyone else had tried that yet.

what kind of magnification do most people go with on these Marlins/rimfires? Those factory sights are just not cutting it, especially with that white post !@#)

Regardless of the rifle make and model, you want to use as low as possible magnification.

A 2-7X (on 2), 3-9X (on 3) or 4X fixed power are about the limit. I have used a 6X scope, and it works, but is on the high side.

Devnull - for dryfiring without a magazine it's easier to just remove the offending mag lever. I wouldn't loan such a rifle to any AS attendees for the simple reason that I don't wish to put myself in the position of being ungraciously and terribly "lawyerized" in the event of an unfortunate occurrence. %)

The softwood dryfiring magazines I've made (four now for giveaways; they now take 5 minutes to make a 'difficult' one, most aren't difficult) can be safely used even on the firing line because they can't be confused with an operable magazine and most definitely will always be inert. They do operate everything they need to, including the lever.

If it's to be a loaner, I'd personally recommend against rendering ANY safety element inoperable. :o O0

Ah. Danke! Your probably right. I don't need an attorney turning me into the poster child for how to win a lawsuit...

I may make one of them hightech space age safety disabling blocks in blaze orange though. Now to find an orange tree  **)

SoCal.....yeah, we have those here...... O0 ^-^ :D

Lava, don't they have any "orange trees" up there where you are? Used to be groves & groves out here....... **) :))

BTW, for those who are having trouble finding the 10 round mags, again:
I found a place called www.MidwestHuntersOutlet.com that has the 10 rounders for $16.99 ea...PN = Marlin 707135

Enjoy!!
LLP

Pebbles and I just got one for each of us and we like them alot. The only problem She has is the stock slipping off her shoulder and the lenght of pull. She's a little short,  ;D Any ideas on how to shorten the stock or to avoid the slipping?

Paladin
one of these right here http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=1137510A&chrSuperSKU=1137510&MC=    and you can saw it off to fit Pebbles.
The plastic stocks don't generally lend themselves to shortening very much.

Skateboard tape on the butt plate will help with the slipping.

Quote from: Laylopro on May 06, 2009, 07:12:12 PM

Lava, don't they have any "orange trees" up there where you are? Used to be groves & groves out here....... **) :))

BTW, for those who are having trouble finding the 10 round mags, again:
I found a place called www.MidwestHuntersOutlet.com that has the 10 rounders for $16.99 ea...PN = Marlin 707135

Enjoy!!
LLP

Well LLP, to tell the truth I haven't seen any Bois d'arc trees around here but I've heard this persistent rumor about other "orange trees" too! **) :o

It'd 'prolly take an hour to whittle a magazine from a piece of Osage Orange anyway. :P ;D

Here's another site for $16.99 Marlin mags too.http://www.marlinfirearmssource.com/item/5984_Marlin_Magazines_Marlin_707135_Magazine.aspx (http://www.marlinfirearmssource.com/item/5984_Marlin_Magazines_Marlin_707135_Magazine.aspx)
There're some in stock here for $16.27 http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=707135 (http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=707135)

What do you all think is the maximum accurate range for this rifle?

The two I have are capable of 2 MOA or better. 

I'm assuming 100 yds?  2" @ 100 yds?  that's what I'm wondering, how far out can I shoot that accurately.

Like most 22's wind is the decider on max accurate range.

If the wind cooperates you can make hits to unbelievable range with a 22 assuming you know your come ups.
even a 2-3 mph wind will really move them though.

Couple weeks ago, I worked mine on the 16A1 sighter out to 385 yards.  It will do it.  Mine was making 4.5 MOA with a 5 mph wind from 4:00.   Only needed 63 moa elevation and 36 windage  yes those are real figures


Sam

2moa @ 25m= 2moa @ 1000m
It's all whether you can make the proper adjustments to account for wind-drift and gravity.
I've heard that a .22lr is dangerous up to 1.5 miles.

Thanks Sam,
I figured 100 yds I'd be good.  I have not had the chance to shoot my 795 out to 100 yds yet.

thanx for the advice all will put it to good use  ;)

If you are interested in getting a little edge to calculating wind effect and trajectory, to save some ammo making your own tables go here.

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html

It helps a lot if you can chrono the actual ammo you use from your gun.

Sam

The Tech Sights for the Marlin 795 also work on the 995. I have an opportunity to bring a son-in-law with me to a summer shoot and needed an extra LTR. I pulled out my old 995 and checked it out. New sights, swivels/slings and some extra mags and it's ready to go. We'll practice ahead of time to see who shoots the 995 and who shoots the 10/22. But on Sunday I'll keep the Garand.

It just happens that those Tech Sites will work on almost any grooved receiver 22.
You may need a taller or shorter front post but they have worked on 6 different one's for me now
JW15
591 Rem
M60 Marlin
M982 Marlin
M24 Savage
597 Rem

Sam

Look guys,  I found this 15 round magazine for the marlin 795 on Sportsmansguide.com

I can't have them here in CA, but you guys may be able to...

here is the link.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=359221

From the ad:    This high-capacity 15-rd. Mag fits Marlin® models: 989, 989G, 989M2, 995, 70, 880, 25N, 795, 7,000 and 925.

These mags seem to have a bad reputation.

  Re: Marlin 795
<< Reply #95 on: April 29, 2009, 09:25:30 PM >> Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: red headed stranger on April 29, 2009, 08:31:17 PM
Has anyone had any experience with these magazines? 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/national-magazine-15-rd-marlin-mag.aspx?a=359221




Not personally, but there's a few threads over at rimfirecentral where guys claim they suck.

Like I said though, can't vouch for that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are bad, didn't fit even after my husband worked on one.  They did fit another Marlin we have, but not the 795 as stated.

Wow!  :o  Took my 795 out for the first time yesterday for zeroing and function check.  Out of the box (with Tech Sights added) the little bugger handily held 1" groups at 25 yds.  Consider me pleasently impressed! 

My ancient "Coast to Coast hardware stores Model 42" just broke last weekend.  One of the struts on the hammer snapped off while an Appleseeder was dryfiring with it.   :'(   :-\

While not officially a 795, it shares similarities in the action and magazine interchangeability with these rifles.

Anyone have a source for ordering a new replacement hammer?

I "think" the rifle still works, it just will have less mass when hitting the firing pin and may result in light strikes.  Help finding a new hammer would be great.  Does marlin sell replacement parts directly to end users?

Here is a link to a schematic. e-Gun parts also carries the parts too.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=082Zz70

Hey AZ. I just bought a 795 yesterday and the manual lists the parts and says to call 1-800-544-8892, and to give the serial number when you call. The hammer part number is 407173.

OOPS. I forgot to say that you can also get Marlin parts at Brownell's.

Thanks, Don. 

I called Marlin.  Gotta replace a couple other parts to be compatible with their new style hammers, but total repair bill with a couple of new 10rd mags thrown in for preparation for a new 795 came to $65 after shipping.

CDNN has factory Marlin 10 rd mags for $13.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/mabopre88au2.html
7rd $11.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/mabopre88au2.html

M14 green web slings for $6.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/m1greenwebne.html

Sam

Quote from: SamD on May 20, 2009, 08:38:22 PM
CDNN has factory Marlin 10 rd mags for $13.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/mabopre88au2.html
7rd $11.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/mabopre88au2.html

M14 green web slings for $6.99
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/m1greenwebne.html

Sam

Thanks for the heads-up.  I just received three of the magazines from CDNN last night.  Quick delivery, OEM packaging, I'm a happy camper.

Ordered four myself.  Thanks for the tip Sam.  I pickup my 795 tomorrow.

I just installed the Marlin Tech Sights TSM200 on my 795. 

http://www.tech-sights.com/

Nicely made sights and trouble free installation. 

I found that turning the windage and elevation knobs is not very easy with bare fingers.  So I ordered the TS211 Sight Tool ($5.00).  Yes, it does fit the Marlin sights and it makes it much easier to turn the adjust knobs.  For those of you considering Tech Sights, I recommend that you order the TSM211 Sight Tool at the same time.

Or go here:

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5398.0

EEL
Thanks for posting the link to your Tech Sights thread!  I'm really liking these sights so far.  That virtual spot that shows up in the center of the rear peep sight is great!  Pretty wild how that works.

As I've stated before I love my 795 except for the plastic trigger guard that finally snapped on me last night.  I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but you 795 aficionados may like be interested in this


https://www.rimfiretechnologies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=15003 (https://www.rimfiretechnologies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=15003)

It's advertised as a Model 60 guard but as most know, the 795 uses the same one.

Finally! Yes this is getting a new home soon! Good find thanks.

I don't think that trigger guard will work on the 795 as the one on the 795 has a mag well opening and is longer.

Anyone try it out yet?

Ya know, you're right.  I didn't even notice that.  ++)

I emailed them to see if they have one that will fit the 795.


shoot :-[

After reading this post, I went ahead and customized my 795 into a LTR (tech-sights, uncle mike swivels, GI sling). Planning to shoot the appleseed in August. I also ordered a few extra 10 round magazines from CDNN.

These new magazines are sticking. The mag that came with my 795 falls off freely when mag release lever is pressed, the new magazines however have to be yanked out with the lever pressed. I tried to load them all up and cycle the rounds manually.

Any ideas or tricks to make these new mags fall freely?

Quote from: Devnull on June 16, 2009, 02:46:36 PM
I don't think that trigger guard will work on the 795 as the one on the 795 has a mag well opening and is longer.

Anyone try it out yet?

Rats you are right, ran into this little problem when installing a ATI FF Drag stock on my 795. Extensive mods required for that stock on a 795.

Guess i will just put up with replacing those plastic things one or twice a year.

Ok, I had no intentions of buying a Marlin but since this post won't die I figured there must be something to them.

I bought a 795 at the Academy sporting goods store in Houston, TX today for $129.00 and it came with a $20.00 mail in rebate.  It seems like a really neat rifle and after what everyone is writing about them, I think it's going to make a fine LTR. Now I'm gonna have to buy another one just for me ;)

The $20.00 coupon indicates the promotion will be effective until 12-31-09.  If you purchase a 795, be sure to ask for the coupon.

You seem pretty rough on those trigger guards there Rhodes  ;D
Check with Numrich, ocassionally they have some older metal guards for the 989M2 that will work .

Sam

Quote from: SamD on June 17, 2009, 12:20:51 AM
You seem pretty rough on those trigger guards there Rhodes  ;D
Check with Numrich, ocassionally they have some older metal guards for the 989M2 that will work .

Sam

Since I shoot a lot I clean the rifle a LOT and of course Murphy always seems to give me extra attention. Broke the last moving it to the ATI FF stock that I had to modify the trigger guard area a good bit. I know those stocks as they come from ATI are fair but its turned into a very easy to modify platform for an excellent shooter. Will post pics when I get it right.

Marlin 795 Aluminum Trigger Guard willl be a Nice upgrade for the Marlin!!  ;D

Word is, from the guy who makes those model 60 trigger guards, he's working on one for his own 795 (he likes Marlins I guess).

YES! 

I'll keep my eyes open for these and pass it along when they hit the streets.  I don't think it'll be too long.

I'm glad that he is working it.
Marlins are the Rodney Dangerfield of the rifle world.
Don't get no respect.

Biggest complain I hear about them is that "there aren't any aftermarket parts".
They don't really need any, but if that's what it takes to get the attention onto the good rifle, let it be so.

Sam

Hey Sam. Have you ever had any issues with the 10rd mags not dropping free?

My 795 will drop the 7rd mags without a problem but all three of the 10rd that I have (And one of TaosGlock's that I used) won't. I started filing to loosen up the mag well but thought I had better ask the opinion of a true gunsmith who owns a 795  O0

So have you seen this and what do you suggest to fix it? It's not the first time I have had to open up a mag well but I just haven't seem much discussion on this issue.

Devnull, I am in the same boat as you are. The brand new 10-round mags stick
What's ironic is that the original 10-round mag that came with my 795 drops fine.

Any input is welcome  :)

I have 1 that drops free. I would prefer that it didn't.
It isn't an issue for me.
If I hit the latch it, comes undone and gets pulled free with the hand that had to grip it to hit the latch.

I'm not real big on free falling magazines really, in anything.  Don't like loosing them in the hustle and bustle ANYWHERE, let alone the range. They are scarce in the field and easily damaged so I prefer to keep control of mine even (getting off mission here) in a FIGHT, even with pistols.

Sam

Quote from: SamD on June 17, 2009, 12:20:51 AM
You seem pretty rough on those trigger guards there Rhodes  ;D
Check with Numrich, ocassionally they have some older metal guards for the 989M2 that will work .

Sam

Cant find those either. Biggest problem is breaking in a new trigger every few months, they start off stiff, Im sure one will pop up soon.

As for the mags dropping I found if I lightly polished the mag well, and mag and put an extremely thin coat of oil on the mag well they drop much easier.

One other thing, GI COTTON Slings have disappeared. CDNN is out as well. Nylon is just so poor compared to the cotton I hate to buy them. Anyone have a source?  need a few more.

Thanks for the info guys.

USGI slings can also be found at
http://www.charleyssurplus.com/
https://www.mainemilitary.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=106&idproduct=2247

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 03:40:31 AM

One other thing, GI COTTON Slings have disappeared. CDNN is out as well. Nylon is just so poor compared to the cotton I hate to buy them. Anyone have a source?  need a few more.

I rather like the nylon ones myself

Quote from: wtr100 on June 24, 2009, 10:15:00 AM

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 03:40:31 AM

One other thing, GI COTTON Slings have disappeared. CDNN is out as well. Nylon is just so poor compared to the cotton I hate to buy them. Anyone have a source?  need a few more.

I rather like the nylon ones myself

They slip unfortunately especially if you are sweating which given our weather is 9 months a year.

Thanks for the lead Mahasheer Charleys had them at a reasonable price, still have about 75 left if any one needs some. They  getting hard to find real quick.

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 01:52:44 PM

Quote from: wtr100 on June 24, 2009, 10:15:00 AM

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 03:40:31 AM

One other thing, GI COTTON Slings have disappeared. CDNN is out as well. Nylon is just so poor compared to the cotton I hate to buy them. Anyone have a source?  need a few more.

I rather like the nylon ones myself

They slip unfortunately especially if you are sweating which given our weather is 9 months a year.

Thanks for the lead Mahasheer Charleys had them at a reasonable price, still have about 75 left if any one needs some. They  getting hard to find real quick.

the loop is slipping down your arm or the buckle is slipping casing the sling to get 'longer'?

Quote from: wtr100 on June 25, 2009, 10:25:27 AM

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 01:52:44 PM

Quote from: wtr100 on June 24, 2009, 10:15:00 AM

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 03:40:31 AM

One other thing, GI COTTON Slings have disappeared. CDNN is out as well. Nylon is just so poor compared to the cotton I hate to buy them. Anyone have a source?  need a few more.

I rather like the nylon ones myself

They slip unfortunately especially if you are sweating which given our weather is 9 months a year.

Thanks for the lead Mahasheer Charleys had them at a reasonable price, still have about 75 left if any one needs some. They  getting hard to find real quick.

the loop is slipping down your arm or the buckle is slipping casing the sling to get 'longer'?

Slipping down my arm, I only use the hasty sling since I only shoot standing. Buckle slippage is very easy to fix.

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 01:52:44 PM
They slip unfortunately especially if you are sweating which given our weather is 9 months a year.

Quote from: Rhodes on June 25, 2009, 12:18:23 PM
Slipping down my arm, I only use the hasty sling since I only shoot standing. Buckle slippage is very easy to fix.

Although I personally prefer the cotton, both can be used with success.  It sounds like you are not using a shooting jacket.  Even if you are only shooting standing, at a minimum one of the "Fred's" jackets can help stability.  A shooting jacket helps keep sweat from causing a loop sling to slip.  If you are using a loop sling, the buckle should be on the top side of your bicep and rotated to the outside.  This will naturally cause it to cinch on your arm and stay in place.   

Quote from: fepowered on June 25, 2009, 12:32:24 PM

Quote from: Rhodes on June 24, 2009, 01:52:44 PM
They slip unfortunately especially if you are sweating which given our weather is 9 months a year.

Quote from: Rhodes on June 25, 2009, 12:18:23 PM
Slipping down my arm, I only use the hasty sling since I only shoot standing. Buckle slippage is very easy to fix.

Although I personally prefer the cotton, both can be used with success.  It sounds like you are not using a shooting jacket.  Even if you are only shooting standing, at a minimum one of the "Fred's" jackets can help stability.  A shooting jacket helps keep sweat from causing a loop sling to slip.  If you are using a loop sling, the buckle should be on the top side of your bicep and rotated to the outside.  This will naturally cause it to cinch on your arm and stay in place.   

Yeah that would work except when its 100 degrees and 98% humidity and  that sun is beating down I would pass on a jacket and just stick with cotton slings.

Yeah Im a wussy...  ;)

I just did a trigger job on my 795, figured I'd write about it here.

Things I needed before beginning:

1.  A spare 795 or similar Marlin action to compare against, "just in case."  I had one, so I kept it in 1 piece and handy for comparison.
2.  2  1.44 MB Floppy disks.
3.  A small jewelers flathead screwdriver
4.  A whetstone for sharpening knives
5.  A proper flathead screwdriver for working on gun screws.
6.  A well lit and clean place for disassembling small parts.
7.  A small paperclip.

A little background:  I've got an older Marlin autoloader very similar to the 795, but slightly different.  It's been a tackdriver up until the Appleseed Kids started rubbing the muzzle on concrete and into the dirt, and then it started losing accuracy.  Go figure.  The hammer broke back at Boulder City earlier this year, and I replaced it with the new style hammer.

So, I go out and buy a new 795 to bulk up the LTR population a bit, and hurriedly slap a cheap Swift 3-9x40 up on top of it since I didn't have any tech sights handy.

The thing didn't shoot straight at all.  Two inch groups from prone at 25 yards would be a good group with it.

Last week, I did some barrel channel relieving.  All I used was a sharp pocket knife and some rough grit sandpaper, then a hot glue gun and a small piece of scrap plastic later.  I noticed that the stock had a tendency to wrap around the barrel slightly and try to hold it.  I shaved this down and away from the barrel, and then sanded it as smooth as I had patience.  It is just a nylon stock, after all.  Then, on the forward edge of the stock just underneath the barrel, I built up a little shelf out of hot glue.  I then put my small piece of scrap plastic on top of this shelf ( the scrap plastic was about 1/16 of an inch thick, about 1/4 inch square in size) and hot glued it into place.  This put consistent upwards tension on the barrel away from the stock to eliminate any areas I might have possibly missed... it also mitigates some of the downwards tension put on the stock by slinging up.

I took it out and shot it, and got a 10 shot string from prone into 1/2 an inch.  I was happy, but the trigger was wretched.  Around 10 pounds.

Today I gave it a partial trigger job... there are still a few more things left to do.

To disassemble, you remove the two screws at the bottom of the action.  Pull the trigger assembly down and out of the stock, being careful of the bolt release that slides through it.  Then pull the receiver out from the top of the action.  There is a plastic pin at the back end of the receiver holding the firing assembly into the receiver... pull it out.  You can now remove the firing assembly.  Set the barreled receiver aside.

About 1/3 of the way back on the firing assembly is a large spring on a strut, attached to the hammer.  The strut has a small hole at the end of it and it passes through a flat piece of metal horizontal to the firing assembly.  Put the paperclip through the hole.  This will trap the spring so it doesn't go flying off into orbit during the next step.

The firing assembly is held together with little clips.  I can't remember if they're called E-clips or C-clips, but they look like a hybrid C or E shape.  You'll want to pull these E-clips off with your small jewelers flathead screwdriver, being careful to trap them in place so they don't fly away.  I like to take the "right" side of the firing assembly apart and leave all the pieces in place on the "left" panel of it.

At this point you can lift the sear off of its pin, and set aside the original sear spring.  You can also remove the hammer from its pin.

I used a whetstone on the sear and on the hammer notch, and they REALLY needed it.  The sear appears to be made from stamped steel and then cut with minimal or no finish work.  Stoning it revealed exactly how rough the engagement surface was.  I brought it to an even shine.  The hammer notch was also pretty rough and received the same treatment.

I then removed the sear spring and replaced it with a floppy disc shutter spring.  This has the EXCELLENT side effect of disabling the magazine disconnector.  The rifle can now be dry-fired with a lighter spring on the sear spring.  I am concerned that I may not get complete sear engagement and that slamfires might be possible, or failure for the hammer to lock back at least.  I'll be testing that thoroughly this weekend with AZRon and AZGromit.  The floppy spring had to be bent to approximate the contours of the original spring, but that appears to not be a problem at all.

After the sear spring and disconnector modification, I took out the trigger return spring and replaced it with another floppy disc shutter spring.  This is located in the lower trigger housing.  To remove, you use a punch, an allen wrench or small philips jewelers screwdriver and push the pin out to the left side of the trigger.  The replacement floppy spring had to be shaped to follow the trigger contour across, and then trimmed on the pivot leg so that it appeared the same as the discarded one.  I then cleaned, lubed and reassembled the rifle and tested for effect.

I estimated the trigger pull at about 10 pounds before any work.  It was strong enough that I had a really hard time holding on target while breaking the trigger.  After the work was completed, the trigger breaks now under the weight of six coke cans suspended by a string in a shopping sack.  Assuming each can is 3/4 of a pound, that's about a 4-5 pound trigger.  Not magnificent, but certainly use-able.

It also makes me wonder just how many shooters truly have crappy guns on the line.  This 795, after a couple of elbow grease sessions, is definitely a shooter.  Prior to that though, it was a piece of junk.  I was shooting circles around this gun with my M14, which just didn't make any sense to me at all.  Historically the big .308 tends to expose more errors in my shooting form, not hide them.

Me being part of the "gun culture" and knowing my Rifleman chops (as well as having a closet full of rifles to compare against for accuracy), I was able to point to the rifle being the culprit here and did the appropriate work.  A new shooter, though?  One who is doing the homework and otherwise is potentially shooting well, but can't get those dang 1" squares or the 400 yard stage of the AQT?  Wow, I feel sorry for him or her.  "Talking Targets" would have him believing that he's at fault somehow... when it's really a bad stock/action fit or his trigger is 12 pounds and he simply doesn't KNOW what a good trigger feels like.

All I can say, is persist!  And don't be afraid to go elbows-deep in your rifle, or have a smith work it over.

From the gunsmith perspective, I'll add this to AZRedhawks post:
Only polish the sear face being careful no to change the angles same with the hammer notch.
By polish 400 grit or finer and maybe a dozen strokes very carefully.

I prefer to leave springs along.
To reduce the pull on a 795 you make the hammer notch shallower, just like a 1911.  Measure it with a mike and begin by removing 1/10th of the engagement by filing. If you do not know where to file, you should NOT do the job.

Such work as you do is your own folly ( you do it your butt is in the sling). I'll tell you straight out that I make most of my filthy lucre in the gun business by remediating the mistakes of others   ;D 

Right there with you Sam......

Although, on other firearms, sometimes springs can make a huge diff......

I had to laugh @ your last line....most of my "filthy lucre" with firearms usually comes about because the owner did not know how to clean their weapon properly....or auction pieces that had -never- been cleaned.....and then broken......

I always liked the S&W basket cases when Joe Owner had pulled the side plate, & it "didn't work" anymore..... **) **) **)

AZRed, it sounds like you pretty much went thru the trigger on that one of yours, and the stoning work is indeed needed.......but I'm inclined to agree with Sam on spring replacements.....esp with a "non orthodox source" of replacements....I haven't checked yet, but I'm sure somebody like Wolff Springs probably has a "tune up" kit available......on a loaner, we stand some what responsible for the condition of our gear......and "modified w/o original parts" will make any DA's heart sing when the lab tells them what happened......(too many ATF horror stories not to be true.....)

As to the new folk who can't make it happen? I always see this as a bit of "new guitar player".....folks who want to learn how to play guitar don't runout and buy a "name guitar", they pick up whatever is at WallyWorld, or Target......and I can guarantee the action on -those- guitars is nowhere near a nicely set up Les Paul, or Fender, or Kramer, or......they'll make your fingers bleed, if you play 'em long enough.....but usually, after a bit of struggling with their POS guitar, they wander into a real guitar shop, & try one of those "high $$" guitars....and decide right there that they need to start saving their pennies & dimes so they can get one of "those"........

How often after having a newbie try one of your "babies" that's been massaged a bit, the people return it with that look in their eyes, and say: "I really need to get one of these...." <:)

My $.02......

But now I have 2 of these 795's.......one scoped, one Tech'd.....

LLP

Sam and LLP, I hear you about the spring concerns.... but the stock trigger return spring in a 795 is so strong it borders on being offensive to good taste.

I'll be testing it out thoroughly prior to handing over to some new 'Seeder as a loaner.

I am happy that I was able to work around the mag/trigger disconnect though... it can now be dry-fired without sticking a "fake magazine" made from a wooden shim into the magazine well.  Huge safety points IMO, from an Appleseed perspective.  The new softer sear spring is always overridden by the disconnector lifter spring.

I'd also add that from a visual inspection, the sear and hammer mated up crooked.  You could actually see that the engagement surfaces were cut wobbly... particularly the sear.  With it smooth and flat, it should glide more easily over the hammer notch and with less friction at any one spot.  The "feel" is certainly 110% better.

I did stone mine a bit more than Sam suggested in his post... but it was necessary IMO due to just how poorly it was cut.  He is certainly spot-on in his advice to leave the engagement angles alone.

If it doesn't work right for some reason or other, no big deal.  Replacement hammers and sears are cheap from Numrichs.

Amen to that!! ;D

I know exactly what you mean about needing to "fix" a truly heinous trigger.......my personal favorite is in the area around 8-10 ozs, far lighter than most folks will want to get near.....but it works well with me.... :o :~ ++)
And yes, the use of trigger blocks is a great tool for setting full on engagement cuts for a particular hammer/sear group.....esp. a pusher type.....
I have "a couple" of these blocks......

The "negative", if you will, is that most folks have never really had any gun smithing experience/training, much less done any SAAMI classes, etc.....
In similar terms of the average "DIY'r" trying to modify his 2009 Corvettes shift points by himself, much of the internal items in the rifle/pistol/shotgun world do not lend themselves to easy manipulation....

In simpler terms, if you do not have reasonably good knowledge of what each piece is, how it interacts with the other parts, and what changes need to be made to "tune it" to a particular goal, you have a responsibility to yourself & those around you on the firing line to have the mods made professionally......

I am not throwing rocks at -anyone- here, we are all simply -TOO VALUABLE- to be damaged because we did not "know about something", or didn't think it through all the way..... :-[

AZ, good on you for testing well in advance of a "stranger" needing to rely on it....that shows good judgment. O0

And yes, pre-blocks, I was -very- familiar with the sales desk @ Numrich....... :-[

LLP

Hey Sam let's see you make a Marlin look like a Garand!
Love Hawkeye in NC

LLP, consider this:

QuoteIt also makes me wonder just how many shooters truly have crappy guns on the line.  This 795, after a couple of elbow grease sessions, is definitely a shooter.  Prior to that though, it was a piece of junk.  I was shooting circles around this gun with my M14, which just didn't make any sense to me at all.  Historically the big .308 tends to expose more errors in my shooting form, not hide them.

Me being part of the "gun culture" and knowing my Rifleman chops (as well as having a closet full of rifles to compare against for accuracy), I was able to point to the rifle being the culprit here and did the appropriate work.  A new shooter, though?  One who is doing the homework and otherwise is potentially shooting well, but can't get those dang 1" squares or the 400 yard stage of the AQT?  Wow, I feel sorry for him or her.  "Talking Targets" would have him believing that he's at fault somehow... when it's really a bad stock/action fit or his trigger is 12 pounds and he simply doesn't KNOW what a good trigger feels like.

In context of what you wrote here:

QuoteAs to the new folk who can't make it happen? I always see this as a bit of "new guitar player".....folks who want to learn how to play guitar don't runout and buy a "name guitar", they pick up whatever is at WallyWorld, or Target......and I can guarantee the action on -those- guitars is nowhere near a nicely set up Les Paul, or Fender, or Kramer, or......they'll make your fingers bleed, if you play 'em long enough.....but usually, after a bit of struggling with their POS guitar, they wander into a real guitar shop, & try one of those "high $$" guitars....and decide right there that they need to start saving their pennies & dimes so they can get one of "those"........

How often after having a newbie try one of your "babies" that's been massaged a bit, the people return it with that look in their eyes, and say: "I really need to get one of these...."

I know what you mean about the guitar analogy.  I studied classical guitar in college and got a music minor just for fun along with my major, and got my skill level back then to where I merited ownership of a handmade spanish guitar... I had an Esteve.  It was a fantastic instrument.

I sold that guitar after college due to circumstances outside of my control at the time.

I replaced it a couple of years later.  I took $150 and spent 3 weekends driving around town looking for the best, well constructed intro student guitar I could find in the Phoenix metroplex.  I found an Ibanez that, while inexpensive, resonated beautifully with quality tone and no fret/nut/bridge buzzing.  One of the guitars that was probably made on a Wednesday at the factory rather than Monday morning or Friday afternoon.  There's probably thousands of other Ibanez guitars of that exact same model that sound awful.  This one plays and sounds comparable to many $500-$700 performance guitars from Takamine and Yamaha, at a quarter the price.  It is a fluke, not the standard.

This marlin 795 is very similar to that cheap Ibanez.... but this one was probably a Friday afternoon rifle.  Nothing was mechanically broken or wrong in it, but it was certainly not tuned or tested for accuracy.  It cost me $150... it's not like it's a CZ 452 or an Anschutz.  It isn't one of those drool-worthy rifles like a custom M14.

Someone saying "I gotta get me one of THESE..." just on the performance of this particular rifle will be misled, unfortunately.  There will be some 795's that drive tacks straight from the factory and some that have the same problems I just cured in my particular specimen.

The Marlin 60/795 is the Walmart rifle (like your Walmart guitar you mentioned). 

Where am I going with this argument? 

Just trying to present the fact that not all 10/22's or 795's or other models of rifles are created equal.  Some are shooters, some need tweaking, and some are out and out lemons.  When a novice shooter shows up with an untweaked rifle in need of tweaking or even a lemon, he can potentially be doing everything right and still be shooting 8-10 minute groups.

I've got fewer years on this rock than you or SamD and seen a LOT fewer rifles than you guys, and it just struck me as another factor to consider as an Appleseed instructor:  A person can have what I view as an "acceptable" rifle based on the model, and it can still shoot for crap.  I'm sure you guys have had that revelation already awhile back prior to even getting involved in Appleseed, but I wanted to try and express that to other Instructors who might be closer to my age and experience level with firearms.  I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not a veteran... just a plain old 30-something fella living in the US. 

It's possible that a shooter exhibiting great form and still being frustrated by his targets down range has a terrible rifle... and worse yet... he doesn't even know it is his rifle's fault.

I think I'm going to be working this concept into my Sunday afternoon parting comments.  Not that I want people scapegoating their gear rather than examining their technique, but it is a legitimate concern IMO.

Someplace in here I think it says a rifleman should be able to pick-up any rack-grade rifle and shoot 4MOA using surplus ammo.

I think we should keep that in perspective for any change to an LTR - Marlin or Ruger. 

We can't rely on personally tuned LTR's to make riflemen.

(I'm not saying everyone should shoot 210+ with a 15# trigger on a Mosin Nagant M44 using the sights set by a near-sighted Red Army armorer, but not every rifle you pick up in life will have a 2# trigger and Zeiss optics.)

Quote from: gunville on July 09, 2009, 03:17:44 PM
Someplace in here I think it says a rifleman should be able to pick-up any rack-grade rifle and shoot 4MOA using surplus ammo.

I think we should keep that in perspective for any change to an LTR - Marlin or Ruger. 

We can't rely on personally tuned LTR's to make riflemen.

(I'm not saying everyone should shoot 210+ with a 15# trigger on a Mosin Nagant M44 using the sights set by a near-sighted Red Army armorer, but not every rifle you pick up in life will have a 2# trigger and Zeiss optics.)

That's a rack grade military rifle though.  Not a walmart special .22.  Huge difference in acceptable standards, especially since a rack-grade military rifle is still arguably serviced by an armorer to meet some sort of objective standard.  The walmart special .22?  No armorer supervising its quality.  Do you really want to make the argument that the M4/M16's coming out of Colt and FN factories, the Bushmaster and other AR's coming from all over the US, the M1A's coming from Springfield, or the M1's from the 1940's are comparable to the rimfires coming out of the Marlin and Ruger factories?

The above described 795 now has a 5 pound trigger, give or take a half pound.  I don't have a scientific measure to determine it more accurately.

I think expecting a rifle to have an approximate 5 pound pull is not asking too much.  What I've done is acted as "unit armorer" for my LTR and made it conform to reasonable accuracy expectations.

There isn't a military on earth that would consider a 10/22 or 795 as a rack grade rifle, even if you could magically make it fire an acceptable centerfire cartridge.  They are among the cheapest of entry level rifles with a host of design flaws and manufacturing variations that would be unacceptable to the soldier in the field.  It would be like Eddie Van Halen playing on stage with a First Act brand guitar from the Walmart toy department.

This rifle was not "rack-grade" in my opinion, the way it shot before in comparison to the way it shot after relieving the barrel channel.  Even after the stock work, it was still not rack grade since I could not manage to keep the sights on target while squeezing the heavy trigger.

In comparison to 10/22's... we see lots of people making modifications to those rifles to make them "Appleseed worthy."  Mag releases, bolt releases are extremely common.  Replacement triggers are ubiquitous on the line.

Does this mean that aftermarket mods or intelligently applied elbow grease are mandatory to make a rifle shoot well?

I dunno.  I'm starting to have doubts about quality of entry level firearms in today's market... The 795 and 10/22 polish up into nice rifles, sure.  But look at them in stock configuration.  Wretched sights, gritty and tough triggers more often than not, cumbersome design features (10/22: bolt release and mag release, 795: magazine trigger disconnect prohibits dryfire).  They are built as cheaply as possible to beat particular price points.  Anyone expecting a stock $150 rifle to shoot 4MOA just like a $1000 rack grade service rifle is likely to be disappointed from time to time by the mechanical limitations imposed by $150 worth of parts and labor.

I'm just about done making this rifle shoot as it "should."  I'm not going to be playing games to get it to a 1lb trigger pull or chasing 0.25" groups using Eley match ammo at 50 yards with it.  I'm getting it to approximate the reliability, feel and accuracy of a rack-grade rifle.

After all, if I can't shoot one of my LTR's to a Rifleman standard, how can I expect it to be an effective learning tool for an Appleseed student to use to his benefit?

QuoteWe can't rely on personally tuned LTR's to make riflemen.

You don't check over your LTR's to make certain they group to a Rifleman standard, and monitor them from time to time for accuracy?  Hmm.  Probably should.  Because Ruger and Marlin don't seem to.  Some kid could have mashed up your barrel crown or let some sand get down the bore in front of a bullet.  Or some grit is inside, grinding away during the trigger pull and making it 15 pounds instead of 8 like normal.  Or the rear sight is wobbly making sights not always align with bore and creating huge groups.

I've got 2 LTR's.  I've made a commitment that if I hand one over to a shooter, it's gonna shoot to a Rifleman standard as long as he does his part.  That takes work on my part to maintain the weapon... after all, if a rifle gets used at 1 appleseed a month, it's getting about 6000 rounds a year through it along with the abuse that 12 novice strangers bring to a rifle over a period of 24 days.

Even an AR or an M1 will need TLC and function check under those conditions... what makes you think your little LTR doesn't?

Ahhhh, you guys know what? I really like you guys!!! (and that is -NOT- said in a fey kinda Cali voice, either!!) &)

You know why? Because you have brains!! And you use them!! And -THAT- makes you the kind of Americans I choose to hang out & work with......
It simply does not get any better...... O0 <:) O0

Gunville, your memory serves you well....we -are- to be able to teach to pick a rack grade rifle & shoot 4MOA with it.....-that- is the platform part of what we teach. Regardless of balancing, trigger pull, creep, scrape or anything else, our platform allows us to perform at that level of competence.....

(I'm not saying everyone should shoot 210+ with a 15# trigger on a Mosin Nagant M44 using the sights set by a near-sighted Red Army armorer, but not every rifle you pick up in life will have a 2# trigger and Zeiss optics.)

This line made my side hurt from laughing, it is sooo true!! You left out the carbine barrel, but still get +1 for the general idea! **) **)

And yes, I have mucho respect for the folk who can show up with an SKS  & do a 210+, it isn't the "norm"......but the 2.25# trigger & Zeiss? That's on my Flaig .300 Wthrby mag, & it is a ~1MOA shooter with me being the nut behind the butt........Not something the "average" AS'r wants to spend time on the line pounding along with, tho'...... ++) :~

And because of the "legal issues" we have out here in Cali (and a few other states I'm given to understand), on my loaners, the trigger pull -never- goes below 4#'s......but they are "crisp".....and the sear reset is a wonderful thing for new shooters to experience...... ;)

As you & AZ note, no two are created equally....AZ, I believe you are right, this should be incorporated in to the Sunday benediction.....I usually tell the folks they will master their rifles, when they will master themselves.....we can certainly incorporate that besides possible "operator errors", there might be a "gear issue" as well......

Now, on the analogy.....a craftsman can work with inferior tools, most would obviously choose not to......that is what makes them craftsmen, the desire to do better than journeyman work.....a newbie, having no background to compare to, will see things first from a value standpoint, while trying to keep his costs down as much as possible.....not until he learns the "mechanics" of doing whatever skill set is required by the job, is he ready to begin making comparisons based on his own unique parameters.......

A back yard mechanic may be very happy with Craftsmen tools for occasional weekend work, he will not be able to justify the "extreme costs" of Snap-On tools......the man making his living with his tools may very well start out with Craftsmen tools, then gradually graduate to the "higher priced" Snap On's.....Why? Because on a day-in, day-out basis, they preform much better, and make life much easier on the mechanic.....

It will be the same as our $150-300 LTRs'.......we have something around 40+ pages of ways to make a 10-22 "behave better" here on the forum, and they are all good points.....mag release, bolt release, swivels, buffer, and sights, not necessarily in that order...... <:) Stocks, cheek rests, barrels, trigger groups, custom hammers......yeah, I suppose you could, but why? for 25m? Doesn't really make sense to me......but, that's me, and my $.02 opinion..... ++) ;D ::)

AZ, I am with you on improving trigger pulls, please do not get me wrong.....but, we do need to keep in mind when a shooter shows on our line with -their- rifle, they will be struggling with something we have -no- experience with, unless we try it, and there may not be the time to do that.....we work with their platform, and if possible, let them try the LTR that may be "easier to run" than what they brought.....

Anybody here ever replaced somebodies stock 10-22 with yours with Tech-Sights, and watched their scores jump by 20+ points on the next AQT??? I have....and they all come back from the target asking how they can get "these sights on their rifle"......

just a plain old 30-something fella living in the US.
I disagree...you are far more that that....you are not only an American citizen, but an Appleseed RedHat Instructor......and that puts you at an elevated understanding of what needs to be, and can be, accomplished compared to the average "citizen"....... O0 O0 O0

The guitar analogy actually worked better than I first anticipated.......and Bro, you started some leakage with the story of your Esteve...... :'(
I've been down that trial as well..... :-[
Now, to draw out the analogy a bit more.....how did you "discover" your Ibanez? Easy! You "searched" for 3 weeks thru all kinds of guitar shops, right? That meant you picked up a whole bunch of guitars, and tried them for action, tone, timbre, and "feel"...until you found that guitar...... O0 At which point you made it yours, took it home, cleaned it, polished it, and began to enjoy the union of man & guitar, and the music they make together......

This is the same thing most shooters should do with their rifles......and pistols, and everything else in their lives......finding what works/feels best for them.....but without comparative analysis, they will not know what to base their decision on.......

A side note here.....JB & DW brought down a new target for our 1st RBC here....it's a tank, with a very small spot to indicate the "tank commander".....the idea is, you start off being matched up with someone else's rifle and ammo, and have 60 seconds to put as many rounds into the target as possible, to "hit" the commander......on a line that had nothing but say 10-22's, or 795's on it, how enlightening would it be for all the shooters to have the chance to "try" everybody else's rifle out?

A thought...... ::)

And added as a late note......your LTRs -should- be capable of doing the 210+ on a regulation AQT, with you , or any of the other Instructors driving it.....as AZ stated, anything else is simply hindering the student.....and frustration will kill desire to accomplish far more quickly than simple adversity...... :(

Allrighty, guys, I gotta get to work....been slacking here, typing, & on the phone.
Take care, & we'll TTYS
LLP

If 30-06 were 3 cents a round we'd use Garrands for LTR's, but it's not. We look to 795's and 10-22's to make riflemen economically feasible. This opens us up to modifications of these platforms in an attempt to make them operate more like a military rifle.

The Ruger mods you mention - mag release/bolt release - are already in the Marlin - fit in here.  Likewise with the sights.

Beyond that, is simply customizing your rifle: feel free to add a fluted match barrel, a trigger group that costs more than the rifle new, german optics with night vision, and a glass bedded stock.  That's what liberty is about.

But you'll not make any more riflemen with your project than with the basic 4MOA LTR.

I think 90% plus of riflemen could shoot a stock Ruger or Marlin and have a patch by Sunday, with the only mod being the addition of a sling.

You gots learn to master what you have.

If you know what proper sight alignment and picture picture look like
Haven't forgot to breathe
Know how to squeeeeeze a trigger
and how to follow through, you can handle most anything
If you take that mental snap shot you know you can.

It applies to all rifles
as does a solid position and NPOA.
do it right and it just doesn't matter what you're holding.
Trick rifles make it easier but not better. or as my sigline on another forums says:

"Fancy schmancy tools have never been a suitable replacement for hard won skill, just a crutch for the motivationally challenged"

Sam
P.S. LLP
On drinking rough days I play an Ovation 247 Longneck
On more sedate occasions an Epiphone Blackstone

Nice to see even the expert opinions vary says the peanut gallery... ;D

There is one thing I agree with for sure, the quality of non-military issue rifles coming off the line are getting very poor. Marlin, Ruger, Springfield, or almost any other firearm maker seems to be trying to squeeze every dime out of us as possible while leaving it up to the owners to make them good rifles. I hope the new owners of Marlin change this trend.

The beauty of the Marlin is there isn't a way to spend a lot on it easily so most owners are limited to doing only what is needed. We enjoy shooting both the Ruger and Marlin but there is always that pressure to do more to the Ruger because more is readily available. The Marlin forces concentration on skill not tacti-cool.

A lot of us really want that patch, I cant say exactly why but I know I will get it God allowing. So Ive promised myself a new rifle if ever I shoot the Rifleman score and not one day sooner. That AR-10 is going to be one fine rifle...

Well, after my outing this weekend with the tuned 795, I will admit that the lighter sear spring introduced problems.  Sometimes the hammer didn't reset.  I'll be replacing the lighter spring with the factory one.  Which is disappointing since it re-enables the magazine disconnector, but a 100% reliable rifle that you can't dryfire is better than a 95% reliable one that you can also dryfire.

But, the built-up trigger lever and trigger set screw make this rifle freakin' awesome, even with a 5 pound trigger.

My Marlin 795 came with a great trigger, I slapped on the tech-sights, clipped on a sling; and it was ready to go.
When I do everything right, I can easily get half inch groups using CCI mini-mags.
It's proven very reliable, with the exception of once the bolt got stuck back.
After I took it all apart, I realized that -They still retained the old-style bolt lock, where you push in the handle.  Go figure, it's got two.
I find the only problem is it's definately not designed to fit me.... #)
That's ok, it's an LTR!

My 10/22 on the other hand,  came from Wal mart...  Crappy plastic trigger/assembly, and it seems to be a heavy pull.(Never weighed it)
Had to peene around the mag-release pin, to keep it from falling out every time I took it out of the stock...
I had to drive the tech-sight in the front dovetail, just to have it slide right out on me a Lodi, WI. last Oct. (And yes, it did have lock-tite on it)
I also believe the barrel was rotating or canting itself durring strings of fire.  I don't believe that 'v-block' was holding it tight.
Seems to have stopped now, probably frozen with gunk and goop...
But I worked through all that.  Afterall, it was my rifle, and I had better master it!  The kinks have all worked themselves out...And it has, despite all it's defficiencies become my prefered LTR.  Perhaps, because I can score Rifleman with it, consistantly.

One big problem for us larger guys is neither 22 is made to fit us.

Well that a problem on all rifles since they all seem to be made for someone around 5'7" or so in particular the Russian rifles.

Thinking of going with a collapsible stock next time to get that fit right so I dont have to jam myself into the rifle so to speak.

Picked up a Marlin 795 in Albuquerque yesterday at Sportsman's Warehouse.  $160 after tax and i'll send in for the $20 rebate promptly.  SamD & TaosGlock have a battery of these for loaners and that's a good enough recommendation for me.  I need to build up a battery of loaners and this was a good way to start.  I'll be putting Tech-Sights on mine.  Sam is giving me tips for polishing the gun up a bit, which I appreciate.

Thanks Samd, ToasGlock, & Bluefeather for the suggestions.

-David
Edgewood, NM

Since you're installing Tech Sights, ask SamD about his forend weight mod - makes a significant difference in the way the rifle handles.  It feels more like the balance with a wood stock.

Paul:

Sam said he would make me one of those too.  I just figured it was lead in the buttstock like in SR but he's putting lead in the forearm?  I'm sure any lead you can stick in a 795 will help.  Darn thing weighs less than 5 pounds.

Thanks,

-David

   Got mine last week, made it to the range on Monday. The range master was checking it out so I told him I was thinking about a 10/22 'till I saw this thread and did some more on-line research, and decided this was the .22 for the price (BTW Big 5 in CA will sell 'em for $149 if you hound them a bit!). The range master promptly told that if I'd got a 10/22 I would have been cussing it for as long as I owned it!
  I know that that's not entirely true, seeing as how they are such a popular rifle they must have some redeeming qualities. After running a couple hundred rounds through my 795, I am more than happy with my choice.
  Back to the range.. I was set up at the bench closest to the range masters shack, and He's watching me work on the 25m drill targets and talking to me about ammo etc... Then I think he couldn't stand it anymore, He says " you wanna try some target loads?" He runs over to his house at the next cease fire (He lives at the range, seriously!) and brings back some different loads. I run through the loads He brought me, some on paper and some at the "dishes" and now he really can't stand it, He says "I'm going to get my rifle". He came back with his 10/22, points to the rear receiver cover and says "this is the only bit of Ruger 10/22 left on this rifle".
  He has a very nice serious target rifle, I'm going off of memory here but I think he said he has an X ring receiver (?), bull barrel, holographic sight etc... nice rifle!
Point is, he has this magic 10/22 (He let me run a few through it, and it was very nice to shoot!) and he thought my little $150 rifle was the $h!*!
  I'm talking to EEL about tech sights, so I should have them by my next range trip, now if I can only find somewhere that will sell me 2000 rds I'll be ready for Fresno RBC!
  I love this little .22, I'm glad I found this thread before I bought.
  Andy
   

Can someone give me the model# of the Sling Swivels I need?  I'm new to rifles and slings and need help in bad way.  Also when you refer to USGI cotton web sling is that what the for sale sites list as the M14 sling?  My 795 has the two sling posts(?) and I'm trying to figure out everything I need to make it work for an Appleseed.  Also I have an AR-15 with the M-4 style collapsible stock.  The problem is there is no sling mount, I found the GG&G Sling Thing that gives it a side mount but the one on the front is on the bottom.  The guy at Tactical Response said they had a front mount to put it on the side for use with one of their Tac-Slings but they aren't meant for Marksmanship (Loop and Hasty) just carrying and transitioning to pistol.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chaos,
Don't know anything about AR's and their sling attatchments, but you can get top quality USGI slings at the Appleseed store. I think 12 or 13 bucks, and Rifle Woman is fast! Just go to the Appleseed store topic on this sight and follow the links.
   

Quote from: Packaged Chaos on July 16, 2009, 12:02:38 AM
Can someone give me the model# of the Sling Swivels I need?  I'm new to rifles and slings and need help in bad way.  Also when you refer to USGI cotton web sling is that what the for sale sites list as the M14 sling?  My 795 has the two sling posts(?) and I'm trying to figure out everything I need to make it work for an Appleseed. 

I got Uncle Mike's Military sling swivels.- (1 1/4" sling loop)- http://www.cgwgun.com/Sling-Swivels/Uncle-Mikes-Miltary-Swivel-Set__UNC14023.aspx. I got mine off e-bay. They fit well on my 795.

Yes. The USGI web sling is listed as M14 slings. I got mine from CDNN along with extra marlin 10 round mags. Look for the 'hook' at the end of sling as shown in the picture. - http://www.cdnninvestments.com/m1greenwebne.html

Hope this helps.

I've had great luck with the Talon 1-1/4" swivels.  They are very similar to the Uncle Mike's, but the Talons have all steel construction, a stainless steel spring, and best of all, they are only $7 a pair at Academy Sports (if you're near one)...they have just added them to their inventory.

I know that the Talon swivels are made in the USA, and I think the Uncle Mike's are too....

search Midway USA,  some times when ordering just 1 thing you can get shipping at $3 USPS 1st Class.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#1-1%2F4%22%20swivels____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

Thanks, fredfunder.

Anyway to get the buttplate off the back of a Marlin 795?  I took the screws out and looks to me like the buttplate is just facade....that it has screws for looks and the buttplate is molded in to the stock.

Maybe the butt portion of the stock is solid plastic...not hollow like most plastic stocks?

Or maybe it's hollow but the buttplate is plastic welded to the butt?

I was wanting to fill the buttstock with lead shot but I couldn't get the faux buttplate off.

Anyone know how?

-David
Edgewood, NM

The butt plate on my new 795 appears to be molded (or plastic-welded) in place.  I am in the process, however, of adding a steel rod in the fore end.  I am going to epoxy it in place to add weight and stiffness.  When I (or the person I've loaned it to...since I'm building it for a loaner) tug on the sling, I don't want the fore end flexing.

After taking a closer look, the butt plate on the 795 is removable.  Pictures to follow soon.

OK...here you go:

1. Remove the two screws

2. Find the largest diameter allen wrench you have that will fit inside the screw holes.

3. Insert the short end of the allen wrench inside a screw hole and pry the butt plate off (the bottom hole worked best on mine).

That's it!

Mine had a rubber-banded wad of foam packing material inside:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/edsiajb/IMGP1139.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/edsiajb/IMGP1138.jpg)

Here is the steel rod JB welded in place to the bulkheads in the forearm.  The rod only adds 4 oz., but I hope it adds a noticable increase in rigidity:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/edsiajb/IMGP1142.jpg)

That forend really doesn;'t touch anyway.  Get a good tight sling on it and keep it free floating all the way   ;D
I fill sections 2 and 3 with a lead slug in tubing and get 12 oz in it another 4 in a cutaway model in #1.

Don't care for any weight in the rear at all, as 95% of the time I am loaning it to someones wife after I pry her from the car and convince her to shoot (and make Rifleman before hubby  :'( ).

Remember guys, you are supposed to be making Rifleman with any old issue rifle and ammo and loaning that LTR to a promising youngster/wife/girlfriend/joeoffthestreet to get him up to Rifleman standard.  ;)  You should never have to use it  ;D 

Sam

Quote from: SamD on July 23, 2009, 12:19:02 AM
That forend really doesn;'t touch anyway.  Get a good tight sling on it and keep it free floating all the way   ;D
...

Mine seems very flexible, and although it's free floated now, a moderate tug on the sling bends the forearm enough to touch the barrel.  And I'd rather tweak the rifle (especially after being a Unit Armorer in the Army) and not wonder if the issues are with the rifle or with the shooter. 

One shooter at an April AS shoot I attended was going round and round with the "talking targets" card.  They swapped to someone else's loaner (more accurate) and discovered that they had wasted much time.  The talking targets card became much more useful at that point.

It's a bit late to mention it, but the safety nut securing the forend swivel stud, now under your epoxied rod in the front forend cavity, can unscrew with use.  If you get a chance, you might want to replace it with something more secure (safety wire it? cotter pin?) or trim the rod down so the front cavity is open and you can retighten as necessary. 

Quote from: ashrn03 on July 23, 2009, 11:08:27 AM
It's a bit late to mention it, but the safety nut securing the forend swivel stud, now under your epoxied rod in the front forend cavity, can unscrew with use.  If you get a chance, you might want to replace it with something more secure (safety wire it? cotter pin?) or trim the rod down so the front cavity is open and you can retighten as necessary. 

Thanks for the mention!  I did make sure it was tight before I mounted the rod, and I put a dab of JB weld on the back side of the nylon lock nut.  Also, I can still get an open-end wrench on it (at an angle) if need be. 

Quote from: cznut on July 22, 2009, 07:27:17 PM
OK...here you go:

1. Remove the two screws

2. Find the largest diameter allen wrench you have that will fit inside the screw holes.

3. Insert the short end of the allen wrench inside a screw hole and pry the butt plate off (the bottom hole worked best on mine).

That's it!
Mine had a rubber-banded wad of foam packing material inside:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/edsiajb/IMGP1139.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/edsiajb/IMGP1138.jpg)

Thanks!  Worked perfect!  I stuck some padding in mine along with about 100 rounds of 22 ammo in the buttstock, wrapped in a ziplock.  Little bit of weight in the stock and onboard spare ammo for hard times.  Added about the right amount of weight.  Still want one of SamD's forearm weights.

-David

Anyone tested and determined the windage and elevation click values on the Marlin 795 with Tech Sights?  Of course my rear sight is mounted about as far back as it can go on the rear of the receiver....

No need to reinvent the wheel if someone else has already figured it out.

-David
Edgewood, NM

I'm sure folks have checked "clicks/minutes" on their own 795's..We teach and preach "DOPE" (Data On Personal Equipment) at each Appleseed....Usually during IMC lessons....Anyone that wants to know their own DOPE can "shoot a box" or fire a small group (three shots) then adjust sights 10 clicks left (or right it doesn't matter where you start) then fire another small group and adjust sights 10 clicks up; fire a small group and adjust 10 clicks back horizontally, then fire a small group and adjust back vertically...fire one more group and if everything is great the last group should land on the first group.  Measure the distance between groups, divide by 10 and figure IMC..

Voila...DOPE..... Yours will be different than mine....

Yep.  I know how to shoot the box.  I've tested by 5.5-22x56 Nightforce NXS for adjustment repeatability since I am always cranking away on the adjustments on my 50 BMG match gun.  Thing is, this is a loaner gun I bought and I'd like to have an idea of what the click values are on it without going to that much trouble.  I know results may vary between guns but I doubt that if one guy is getting 1/2 MOA per click on his 795 that i'll get 1 MOA per click on mine.  I just need a good ballpark estimate from someone who has figured it out on their Tech-Sighted Marlin 795.

And maybe figuring out click values is DOPE...but I always though DOPE was what you learned about an individual rifle and load in relation to elevation and windage adjustments for various ranges and conditions...maybe my definition is just a little narrow.

Thanks,

-David
Edgewood, NM

Quote from: NMMI9100 on August 05, 2009, 01:15:19 PM
Anyone tested and determined the windage and elevation click values on the Marlin 795 with Tech Sights?  Of course my rear sight is mounted about as far back as it can go on the rear of the receiver....

No need to reinvent the wheel if someone else has already figured it out.

-David
Edgewood, NM

As a starting point, use 0.9 MOA per click of windage or elevation (TSM200).  If you'll PM me with your email address I'll send you a spreadsheet with sight adjustment data for various rifles.  (But you'll need to show me how these numbers were generated at the Gunnison AS - you do need to know how to do it.)

Paul

After my first and so far only Appleseed  I treated myself to a new .22 rifle since I made Rifleman. I wish I would have read this thread before I went shopping. I looked at a 795 but couldn't stand the feel of the plastic stock; I would have gave it more consideration than I did.

I ended up with a 10/22-T like the one used by NMMI9100 at the Appleseed I attended.

It works well for me, so far I replace the bolt release, mounted an old Tasco scope and put 1.250" sling swivels on it. I'm getting ready to get a Turner 1907/National Match sling for her.

That is likely all that I will change on her.

I spent more money than necessary but she isn't an LTR for loaning out! She is a LTR for me!

There are better stocks for the Marlin just not as many as the 10/22. I use a modified Fiber Force on mine for the pistol grip and added a custom cheek pad thats fit for me. I also get a bit nervous loaning out rifles but wont comment on it beyond that.

I am still working on the single shot .22 target rifle and the AQT, and I wonder if using a semi-auto isn't like having an automatic in the sedan - makes the driving easier to concentrate on the direction of the car, while it takes care of the shifting for you. Especially for first time shooters.  I like semi-auto but not enough yet to buy one, how much money do I have to shoot? Do you invest it in the rifle or the ammunition for shooting? I go with the ammunition.

Quote from: Earl on August 08, 2009, 01:13:45 AM
I am still working on the single shot .22 target rifle and the AQT, and I wonder if using a semi-auto isn't like having an automatic in the sedan - makes the driving easier to concentrate on the direction of the car, while it takes care of the shifting for you. Especially for first time shooters.  I like semi-auto but not enough yet to buy one, how much money do I have to shoot? Do you invest it in the rifle or the ammunition for shooting? I go with the ammunition.

Not so sure I agree.  I think it's a combination of both.  Remember that in Appleseeding, we're talking about using a rack grade rifle and surplus ammo to hit within 4 MOA out to the 'Rifleman's Quarter Mile'  A crappy rifle with crappy ammo will hinder a new shooter, but it's I don't think that makes a rifleman's score impossible, only more challenging to acheive.  Some rise to the challenge, some don't.  That's human nature. 
The 795 is an excellent rifle that makes even marginal ammo look good.  The only thing it doesn't like, in my experience, is marginal high velocity ammo.  Not bragging, but I scored Rifleman at my very first Appleseed using a bone-stock 795 and CCI Mini-Mag.  I did it again later shooting Federal bulk.  Which was the key, the rifle or the ammo?  Neither.  It was determination aided by 'good enough' equipment.

I'm guessing Walmart Federal bulk is the leading ammo for riflemen...

Ok folks,
I think we have probably gone as far with this as necessary.  I REFUSE TO HAVE IT GET TO 42 PAGES LIKE THEM 10/22 FOLKS DONE DID WITH THIER THREAD.

I intended to collect some data to use to convince Marlin that they needed to do 2 things.

#1 Produce an Appleseed Model 795 from the factory with Tech Sites or the equivalent and sell  it with 3 spare magazines and a GI web sling.

#2  put an Appleseed Advertising insert in their packaging.

I think I have enough data.

Now it's time to go to work. Show me you want to live a Rifleman's life (or at least part of it) Do something positive, a real action that demonstrates your support.

Send a postcard to Marlin firearms.
Tell them this:


Dear Marlin Firearms.
I participate in the Appleseed Project.
http://www.appleseedinfo,org
I think the 795 is a great rifle for this.
Sell an Appleseed Model with Tech Sights,
3 spare mags and a GI web sling and I'll recommend it.
Please support Appleseed, we are supporting you.
Sincerely,
Sam Damewood (use your own name)

Send to:
Marlin Firearms
P.O. Box 1871
Madison, NC 27025

After you do that post in this thread
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=8495.0

Cost you something like 39 cents and 10 minutes of your time
you could even cut and paste it from right here and get it down to 8 minutes


Sam

If anyone is interested I have one that might be up for sale now.

Quote from: Colorado Sam on September 12, 2009, 10:31:52 PM
If anyone is interested I have one that might be up for sale now.

I'm interested, Sam.  I need another loner Marlin 795 LTR for Appleseeds.

PM me the details... and let me know how USMC Boot Camp went!  O0

I'm still waiting for the call from the LGS to let me know mine is in.

After reading the above posts, I think I'll call them...

This thread is locked at the request of the Original Poster.