Ok quick story....... One of those " I already knew this but never put much stock in it because I never thought I would or did ever happen to me" kind of stories.
It begins with buying some Russian 22LR Target off a man because it wouldn't function his 10/22 a few weeks ago. He had several bricks, the pictured ammo, that he wanted to get rid of NOW. Read he almost gave it to me to get rid of it. He cussed it and went on and on about how it just would not function in his 10/22 and it was junk etc etc etc etc etc etc etc......
Heck I got bolt guns so I knew it would work in them. Anyway 22LR is hard to find around these parts so I handed him a Ben Franklin and he happily handed me 5 bricks. Home I went, happily.
Fast forward to today. Rained last 7 days in a row, water standing everywhere around here, wanted to do something so I went to my range and sat down at the shooting bench with the 10-22 I short rifleman with (and had not shot in a long time) and proceeded to prep a mag with five rounds of this "bad ammo".
Well guess what? It would not function my 10/22 either on the first 5 rounds. I had to manually work the bolt after each shot. The whole time I had a box of 50 sitting on the bench in the sun. I made a small sight adjustment after some IMC and then began prepping 5 more rounds when I had a lot of trouble getting the rounds out of the plastic holder so I dumped them out on the bench.
Well the next 5 rounds stove piped......... every one of them.
In the 15 or so minutes I was shooting and un- jamming that 5 rounds the other 40 were laying there in the open in the sun warming up.
When I prepped the next mag what do you know......... they all functioned my 10/22.
By the last string of 5 my POI had also come up, with the same POA/same hold, 1.5 MOA.
Not one malfunction in the last 40 rounds.
Have been taught about this phenomenon from my youth, but had never really knowingly encountered it until today. Just though I would share.
I am sure I have seen this on the line as well, but with everything else going on with shooters and instruction I just have missed it..........
Oh BTW, shoots like a dream in my bolt rifle.
Redfox24
(http://www.krfarm.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/securedownload.jpg)
Made in the USSR....25+ years ago???
The boys over in the sandbox like to lay their ammo out in the sun so they can get a few more yards out of it. Looks like that Soviet ammo is just following the same time-honored tradition.
You should pop this stuff in the microwave for about 10 seconds before you shoot it next time. Get that pressure up even higher! :pop:
VOSTOK AMMO ! That brings back memories.
works great in bolt-action rifles
everything else, usually not so much
I never tried the suntan method
k
Quote from: slim on May 19, 2014, 11:06:15 AM
You should pop this stuff in the microwave for about 10 seconds before you shoot it next time. Get that pressure up even higher! :pop:
I prefer using the toaster oven. I find the microwave heats the rounds unevenly.
Based on the title, I was expecting catastrophe! $$-0 The first few paragraphs reinforced that. I hadn't heard about this happening before. Good to know if I ever go to one of the southern 49 states. ;D
From analyzing our IAARs over the years, there is some evidence that .22 LR experiences a higher rate of OOB discharges when it gets hot. :'( Be careful.
"Keep it in a cool, dry place."
My 2-cents: Quality ammo is supposed to go bang every time the hammer drops. If you have a batch of ammo that needs to be "primed" before it performs as expected, safely dispose of it. Beware of "tricks"; try them at your own risk.
aj
Quote from: airplanejoe on May 20, 2014, 08:57:32 AM
My 2-cents: Quality ammo is supposed to go bang every time the hammer drops. If you have a batch of ammo that needs to be "primed" before it performs as expected, safely dispose of it. Beware of "tricks"; try them at your own risk.
aj
I believe what RedFox was saying is that the ammo was too weak to reliably operate his 10/22 until it warmed up a bit. Not unheard of with .22LR target ammo in a semi-auto. This is different from unreliable ammo, which certainly should be disposed of safely.
Quote from: airplanejoe on May 20, 2014, 08:57:32 AM
My 2-cents: Quality ammo is supposed to go bang every time the hammer drops. If you have a batch of ammo that needs to be "primed" before it performs as expected, safely dispose of it. Beware of "tricks"; try them at your own risk.
aj
It did go bang every time.
Again my original post was about the effects of the sun on the round and MOA rise of the group shot as a result of the rounds warming up in the sun. An effect I have been told about and read about but officially had not experienced until now.
Caliper is correct, pretty common stuff with target 22 and an semi auto...........
No "Tricks" or "magic" with the ammo...........
I was also wondering how much "rise" we may be seeing in our shooters groups during an event when they have their ammo laying out in the sun behind the line, esp during lunch or extended times of instruction. I know that sometimes we see groups come up at some shoots and we think its the shooters NPOA or they are making some adjustment in one of the steady hold factors.
Joking about dangerous handling of ammo really should not be going on here. Micro waving, toaster ovens? You never know who or where stuff like that will end up. My two cents, I'll take the flames.
Cody
How warm is warm enough?? How do you empirically measure the temperature rise? Morning sun, midday sun, Alaska sun, a hot engine manifold,... How do you know when you are literally playing with fire? I have to admit that this is uncharted territory for me.
aj
That ammo must have temperature sensitive powder and a light charge of it to boot!
I shoot precision rifle matches out here in New Mexico with a 308 and 260 Remington out to 1000 yards and used to shoot 50 BMG matches. It is a known fact that if you leave a round in the chamber for a minute or so after your rifle has warmed up, the round will impact high. The maximum I've seen with temp stable powder (like Varget & H4350) fly high when headed is about one MOA (usually less), but it happens.
The guys I used to shoot 50 BMG with that shot VV 20N29 powder behind 800 grain VLD brass solids always kept they're ammo warmed up, sitting on the defroster of their truck or in a heated box. It seems that 240-250 grain charges 20N29 behind 800s shoot single digit standard deviations when the ammo temp exceeds 110 degrees. So when they took it from the truck to the line, it was always wrapped in a towel or kept in a little insulated cooler.
This likely happens fairly often on target 22 LR ammo because the manufacturer is trying to keep it subsonic. Passing through the transonic zone and sound barrier introduces instability in the round. Hence, they sometimes don't have the recoil to cycle a self-loader. Never have had the problem with CCI subs, standard velocity, or green box, but then again my 10/22 is well worn and usually shot suppressed.
/David