I've been dry firing and shooting a lot with the sling lately. My support forearm + ring and bird fingers have gotten stiff and achy. When I grab something or hold a drink in my hand, pain shoots through my forearm and the two affected fingers. It's painful enough to make me drop a glass or let go of door knobs and open them with my other hand.
Anybody else dealt with this? Advice?
No, that sounds like no fun at all. I've had to deal with tendonitis on my trigger hand- also no fun.
My first thought would be to try a high power type support glove for your support hand.
Initial thoughts? You're doing it wrong.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (to the best of my limited knowledge) is from repeated stress. If you are experiencing these types of symptoms from your dry fire routine, your support arm is NOT relaxed, as it should be.
The next time you dry fire, have a friend or partner attempt to squeeze the muscles and tendons in your forearm- they should be loose and relaxed. Allow the sling to trap your arm into position, rather than using muscle strength to hold the rifle.
Another thought:
When you rest the rifle onto your support hand, is the rifle resting its weight directly on your wrist, or is it centered further out?
Improper placement of the rifle on the support hand, may cause your support hand to over-extend, which may also cause tendon pain.
When placing the rifle into your support hand, follow these steps:
1: create a "V" with your index finger and thumb.
2: place the center of the rifle into the center of the "V"
3: allow the weight of the rifle to rest upon the middle of your wrist- where all the lines of your palm meet, is where the rifles weight should be.
4: allow your fingers to naturally curl- RELAX YOUR HAND, allowing the sling and bone structure to support the rifle.
My initial thought is to check elbow position. You may be setting up on your support elbow in a way that presses on a nerve, which in turn will impact your fingers.
If I set up wrong, I sometimes get some numbness or tingling in my support ring and middle fingers. I have to either adjust my trigger leg to get into a different angle or slide my hand on the stock (usually both to compensate for one another's effects on elevation). I've never run into symptoms that last past my range session though...
Not all CT and other tendonitis is repetitive stress related, some is congenital. I'll ask my wife to get on this thread, she is unfortunately familiar with the problem and has had it interfere with her shooting.
Eric, you don't have to be squeezing to kick off the tendonitis, particularly if there's already some inflammation. Just keeping the wrist or other joint flexed can do it, and I'm sure the sling pressure wouldn't help.
If you're in a high prone position, the support wrist may end up flexed backwards just as in the typing positions that are known to encourage CT in computer users. If that's the case, you might try a lower prone position that doesn't require so much flex.
It's your neck. Sounds like c6 and/or c7. Carpal tunnel can feel similar but it is more likely congenital and less likely from repetitive stress.
See a neurologist soon. Neck issues can ruin your 3 position career. Even a slightly bulging disk can put pressure on the nerves controlling the hand arm and shoulder when in a prone position and result in discomfort. Should it rupture it can get far worse. Go see somebody
Quote from: Harmonica on May 07, 2014, 09:20:22 PM
I've been dry firing and shooting a lot with the sling lately. My support forearm + ring and bird fingers have gotten stiff and achy. When I grab something or hold a drink in my hand, pain shoots through my forearm and the two affected fingers. It's painful enough to make me drop a glass or let go of door knobs and open them with my other hand.
Anybody else dealt with this? Advice?
My advice is to go see your doctor.
UL
Harmonica,
I am a physical therapist assistant, and want to try and help if I can. First, stop practicing as much for now, just until the symptoms calm down. Likely that if you have been practicing a lot lately, you are getting a little overuse/repetitive type inflammation. Next you need to see your Dr, so that you can learn where the problem is originating. Sounds like nerve involvement, which could be from your neck down to your wrist-although I will say carpal tunnel sounds like a possibility. Carpal tunnel affects the median nerve, which would cause tingling in the fingers you say are tingling. Also, the position your support wrist is in could aggravate carpal tunnel symptoms. And, the problem could be aggravated at the shoulder because there are nerves and blood vessels that run basically out of your armpit area that the sling could be putting pressure on.
After the problem is correctly diagnosed, physical therapy, or even your Dr showing you how to manage the symptoms would be great. Many times just some simple stretches- that you would do daily-helps a lot. For repetitive type problems, we always want to try and stop that "irritating factor." So, you most definitely would want to make sure you are in good position, or modify your position a little if needed. Also, taking more rest breaks or shorter practice sessions may help control the problem.
I hope this helps a little-please keep me posted as I will be interested in the cause. My guess is carpal tunnel or your shoulder. Please consider going to your Dr and maybe even a little PT it could really help.
Leslie
ItsanSKS's note about where the weight should rest is dead on for me. I have to be careful to not rest the weight too far out on my fingers or my wrist goes numb for hours at a time. If you're shooting an ar-style rifle, or anything with an extra long mag, this can make it difficult to line up everything properly (elbow, wrist, rifle). You just have to be more intentional in your SHFs in that situation. That has helped me cope with my carpal tunnel, anyway.
** I am not a doctor and not certified to provide medical or pharmaceutical advice.
Quote from: ItsanSKS on May 07, 2014, 09:30:32 PM
Initial thoughts? You're doing it wrong.
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (to the best of my limited knowledge) is from repeated stress. If you are experiencing these types of symptoms from your dry fire routine, your support arm is NOT relaxed, as it should be.
The next time you dry fire, have a friend or partner attempt to squeeze the muscles and tendons in your forearm- they should be loose and relaxed. Allow the sling to trap your arm into position, rather than using muscle strength to hold the rifle.
Another thought:
When you rest the rifle onto your support hand, is the rifle resting its weight directly on your wrist, or is it centered further out?
Improper placement of the rifle on the support hand, may cause your support hand to over-extend, which may also cause tendon pain.
When placing the rifle into your support hand, follow these steps:
1: create a "V" with your index finger and thumb.
2: place the center of the rifle into the center of the "V"
3: allow the weight of the rifle to rest upon the middle of your wrist- where all the lines of your palm meet, is where the rifles weight should be.
4: allow your fingers to naturally curl- RELAX YOUR HAND, allowing the sling and bone structure to support the rifle.
I may have had the stock too far out on my hand. I'll definitely keep your instructions in mind. Thanks!
Quote from: American Amazon on May 08, 2014, 04:02:20 AM
Sorry I didn't get on this thread sooner. I'm Nero's wife; and I have apparently inherited a tendency to tendonitis - I've had 10 different cases (the first case when I was only 37), in 5 different places on my arms, requiring 3 surgeries that left 7 scars. My relevant experience appears to be with carpal tunnel syndrome (both wrists simultaneously). I should definitely mention that I have no medical training, I am only a person who has had a lot of cases of tendonitis, and discussed them with hand and wrist specialists at Stanford Hospital (Palo Alto, CA).
First, do you have numbness, or pain, or both?, because you describe shooting pain. My worst symptom was a painful numbness at night. I'd wake up with a feeling like my hands had fallen asleep because the circulation had gotten cut off - but rubbing or shaking my hands didn't bring the pins-and-needles feeling that follows returning circulation. I'd be awake for 20 minutes while the numbness subsided - then I'd wake up once or twice more, each night. That played havoc with my sleep, and the resulting exhaustion was almost worse than the hand problem!
Second, do you feel numbness or pain in two and a *half* of your fingers? That would be the index finger, the middle finger, *and* the half of the ring finger closer to them. My doctor told me this is part of what pins down a carpal tunnel diagnosis - the relevant structures go to 2.5 of your fingers, and different ones serve the last 1.5 fingers.
My advice:
1. For now, stop practicing. Stop shooting. Seriously. If this is any type of tendonitis, you make it worse with every motion that aggravates it. And if it's anything worse, as SPQR suggests, you also want to avoid aggravating it. (I spent over 2 years away from shooting, with elbow tendonitis, and 2 hand/wrist surgeries. I made my Rifleman score after my recovery.)
2. Definitely see your doctor. (I hope you have a doctor, and a way of covering the cost.) Take note of your symptoms, as clearly as you can, and describe them to the doctor. If the doctor thinks you have some form of hand or wrist tendonitis, try to see a hand/wrist specialist (Stanford actually has separate surgeons specializing in the hand, and in the wrist!). If the doctor thinks it's anything else, follow up as needed.
3. If you should end up getting sent to physical therapy, do the exercises religiously. Do them for a month after you think you're done. My only regrets on PT are that I did not keep doing the exercises long enough (probably in every case...), and I delayed my final complete recoveries by a bit.
I sincerely hope that you find out quickly what's going on; that it's something easy to deal with; and that you return to full health soon.
-American Amazon
Thanks for the reply. I don't really have any numbness. Only some stiffness and a dull ache when not using my hands. Then the pain shoot through the two fingers and arm when using my hand. The index finger feels fine. I can use it without any pain.
It feels like it's gotten a little better each day since I quit dry firing.
Going to the doctor just isn't an option for now.
Quote from: LesMoore on May 08, 2014, 12:05:47 PM
Harmonica,
I am a physical therapist assistant, and want to try and help if I can. First, stop practicing as much for now, just until the symptoms calm down. Likely that if you have been practicing a lot lately, you are getting a little overuse/repetitive type inflammation. Next you need to see your Dr, so that you can learn where the problem is originating. Sounds like nerve involvement, which could be from your neck down to your wrist-although I will say carpal tunnel sounds like a possibility. Carpal tunnel affects the median nerve, which would cause tingling in the fingers you say are tingling. Also, the position your support wrist is in could aggravate carpal tunnel symptoms. And, the problem could be aggravated at the shoulder because there are nerves and blood vessels that run basically out of your armpit area that the sling could be putting pressure on.
After the problem is correctly diagnosed, physical therapy, or even your Dr showing you how to manage the symptoms would be great. Many times just some simple stretches- that you would do daily-helps a lot. For repetitive type problems, we always want to try and stop that "irritating factor." So, you most definitely would want to make sure you are in good position, or modify your position a little if needed. Also, taking more rest breaks or shorter practice sessions may help control the problem.
I hope this helps a little-please keep me posted as I will be interested in the cause. My guess is carpal tunnel or your shoulder. Please consider going to your Dr and maybe even a little PT it could really help.
Leslie
There really isn't any tingling. Just a weak kind of ache when at rest. I had to quit playing guitar because of the same kind of shooting pain up my forearm when active. It hurt for a long time after I stopped playing.
I did pretty much stop sleeping in my bed because it tends to make my left leg to numb. I just sleep on a couch and never have any problems that way.
Quote from: AuntieBellum on May 08, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
ItsanSKS's note about where the weight should rest is dead on for me. I have to be careful to not rest the weight too far out on my fingers or my wrist goes numb for hours at a time. If you're shooting an ar-style rifle, or anything with an extra long mag, this can make it difficult to line up everything properly (elbow, wrist, rifle). You just have to be more intentional in your SHFs in that situation. That has helped me cope with my carpal tunnel, anyway.
** I am not a doctor and not certified to provide medical or pharmaceutical advice.
I'll make sure to keep the stock positioned properly. I might have had my wrist bent back too much before.
Thanks for the help, everybody. O0