I recently purchased a vibrating case cleaner (too poor in the old days, used a Lee trimmer base in a drill and real fine steel wool) and after a month I have question. Until the other day the brass came out (time period varied based on original condition of brass - no surprise) looking clean and shiny. A few days ago the brass started looking not polished, but bead blasted. It's clean, it's just rough looking. I'm wondering if this is due to dirt/brass residuce build up in the media. Anybody else who's run into this before please give me some advice. Changing the media is simple (and cheap) but it's still doing a great job cleaning, it's just appears to be roughing the brass up vs. polishing it. Thanks.
Edited to sticky and rename the thread.
Strictly speaking you have cleaned them enough. If you want to polish them, add some polishing compound bit by bit to the media (no cases present) and mix it in thoroughly. I've used the same media for some time now. It's black and probably saturated with polishing compound but does a good, quick job of it. Midway sells the polish.
Nu-Finish or just about any liquid car polish will work as well as the compounds made for case polishing and much cheaper.
I tumble with Walnut Shells before processing, then with Corn Cob after sizing to remove lube residue. The Corn Cob polishes the brass as well as remove the lube.
Quote from: Nickle on July 03, 2007, 09:54:36 AM
I tumble with Walnut Shells before processing, then with Corn Cob after sizing to remove lube residue. The Corn Cob polishes the brass as well as remove the lube.
Everybody has their own twist on things. I use water soluble lube, and rinse the cases to remove same. That way the tumbler and polish-impregnated media aren't contaminated by the lube.
That would work. I did forget to mention that for pistol ammo, I use Carbide dies, and skip the after sizing polish.
Folks, there's many ways to do this. My father doesn't remove the lube after sizing, as he always anneals the brass after trimming and chamfering, and before priming. The annealing process (we've got our own home built machine, belt driven) removes any lube residue.
Other things important about preparing the cases.
1. if using military brass with a crimp on the primer pocket you've got to removed the crimp before you can install a new primer, I've always used the RCBS primer pocket swager but there are other brands, types, ways of getting rid of the crimp
2. clean out the residue in the primer pocket before installing the new primer, the one I use is double ended for use with either small or large primers (forget who make it, think it was Lee) This is really a good idea as you must make sure the primer is fully seated in the pocket, especially with our M1's, M1A's and AR-15's. A primer not fully seated is sticking up far enough that it could be set off during chambering (a very bad thing for your rifle and you)
3. check the case length and trim if necessary. If you crimp (I don't) the case mouth on the bullet the cases have to be the same length or the crimp will be variable which will affect your pressures which will affect your velocities which will affect your group size. Another thing you want to make sure of is that the case mouth does not strike the end of the chamber as the bolt closes. It could keep the bolt from fully closing (not sure how likely this is) or could further crimp the case mouth on the bullet, increasing chamber pressures.
4. Once you've installed the new primers be sure to check every case to insure the primers are fully seated in the primer pocket (for the reasons stated above).
5. be sure to "deburr" the case mouth inside and outside so you don't damage the case mouth or the bullet during the seating process. A wrinkled case mouth can/will keep the load from fully chambering. A damaged bullet base will affect the accuracy of the bullet more as the range to the target increases.
Feel free to add to this if I've left something out, or you've got a slicker way of getting the cases ready.
Water rinse! Make sure with this method the interior is
dry DRY!!!! Any powder residue with attract and hold moisture.
An extender for polish medium is to take those clothes refresh-
er sheets, that is added to a dryer full of clothes, to the tumbler.
I cut one into strips. It picks up the dust, powder, and other
small crud and holds it. When it starts looking dark and nasty,
replace with new. ;D
Quote from: Oohrah on July 06, 2007, 04:35:31 PM
Water rinse! Make sure with this method the interior is
dry DRY!!!! Any powder residue with attract and hold moisture.
An extender for polish medium is to take those clothes refresh-
er sheets, that is added to a dryer full of clothes, to the tumbler.
I cut one into strips. It picks up the dust, powder, and other
small crud and holds it. When it starts looking dark and nasty,
replace with new. ;D
Oh, the cases have to be dry, alright! I take the freshly washed cases and toss them into a Dillon media seperator. Spin that bad boy a few times in both directions, and lay the cases next to the furnace. Leave 'em there for a couple of days, and then check the insides of a few with flashlight. Yes, it takes time, but then I've plenty of other things to do. Since I have a number of presses, I can be doing other tasks while the cases are drying. I usually don't reload in lots of less than 1K, unless it is dedicated Match ammo or something "special".
If this has already been mentioned, it won't hurt to mention it again.
When you reload for semi-autos, you full-length resize, for reliability in feeding.
When you reload multiple times, the case is subject to repeated stretching.
When the case stretches like this, brass 'flows' toward the neck.
The case gets longer - which is why triming and case OAL is critical for semiautos - a 'long' case can result in a 'pinched' bullet, and pressure spiking way above acceptable limits.
But that's not all, and it's not enough to keep case length within specs.
When brass flows, it also makes the neck thicker. Enough extra thickness, and the case, even if within AOL spec, will pinch the bullet, and pressures will again spike over max.
So, if you reload your brass repeatedly for semiauto, which for reliability requires full-length resizing, you need to trim case length AND turn the neck back to the correct thickness (inside vs outside turning is your choice).
That's a valuable rifle you have. Don't blow it up for no reason...
Quote from: Fred on July 08, 2007, 08:18:19 AM
If this has already been mentioned, it won't hurt to mention it again.
When you reload for semi-autos, you full-length resize, for reliability in feeding.
When you reload multiple times, the case is subject to repeated stretching.
When the case stretches like this, brass 'flows' toward the neck.
The case gets longer - which is why triming and case OAL is critical for semiautos - a 'long' case can result in a 'pinched' bullet, and pressure spiking way above acceptable limits.
T But that's not all, and it's not enough to keep case length within specs.
When brass flows, it also makes the neck thicker. Enough extra thickness, and the case, even if within AOL spec, will pinch the bullet, and pressures will again spike over max.
So, if you reload your brass repeatedly for semiauto, which for reliability requires full-length resizing, you need to trim case length AND turn the neck back to the correct thickness (inside vs outside turning is your choice).
That's a valuable rifle you have. Don't blow it up for no reason...
This is completely correct as stated. However, the relatively new "X-Die" from RCBS is claimed to limit overall shell length increase to .002" (total) even after repeated sizings using the "X-Die". My prelimary testing confirms the manufacturer's claims up to 5 re-sizings. Each case was carefully inspected for signs of incipient case-head seperation and any increase in neck wall thickness. No signs of any problems due to brass migration as yet.
Follow the Mfr's instructions to the letter (not at all a burdensome task), and you'll have no problems.
So far, the "X-Die" promises to save a LOT of time trimming and chamfering. Disclaimer: no commercial interest.
The main problem with brass from a gas gun such as an M1/M14/M1a is the fact that the rifle tries to snatch the brass out and also tries to twist it while still HOT and under pressure with the M14/M1A being the worse.
You can measure the difference between brass fired with gas valve on or off.
You can also get longer case life if you leave the valve turned off when on the range just plinking.
Also you can keep the same brass dedicated to each rifle and use the sizing die to resize brass just to fit the rifle( not full length resize), you will also get longer case life.
Quote from: M1A4ME on July 02, 2007, 11:42:07 PM
I recently purchased a vibrating case cleaner (too poor in the old days, used a Lee trimmer base in a drill and real fine steel wool) and after a month I have question. Until the other day the brass came out (time period varied based on original condition of brass - no surprise) looking clean and shiny. A few days ago the brass started looking not polished, but bead blasted. It's clean, it's just rough looking. I'm wondering if this is due to dirt/brass residuce build up in the media. Anybody else who's run into this before please give me some advice. Changing the media is simple (and cheap) but it's still doing a great job cleaning, it's just appears to be roughing the brass up vs. polishing it. Thanks.
Edited to sticky and rename the thread.
It's likely that there are several things that could cause your "Bead Blasted' appearance.
The only time I have had that happen is when I have TOO many cases for the amount of cleaning media.
I change media fairly often, i.e.; when either the crushed walnut or corncob looks nasty, I trash it.
I go through a lot of cases so I use two tumblers. One tumbler with walnut shells with brass polish added and the other with corn cob and nothing added.
Varying the amount of cases in the tub is easy. I'll try it. Thanks.
QuoteYou can also get longer case life if you leave the valve turned off when on the range just plinking.
I've been SERIOUSLY contemplating this to get more than 4-5 loadings out of my current stock of .308 brass. I have between 1500 and 2000 pieces of brass, mostly Federal (soft!) but also Winchester, Remington, Nosler and LC. Since the cost of .308 has doubled, I've been concerned with how to keep a decent stock of brass.
I don't have a chrony, but hopefully someone else does and can answer this question:
Is there a velocity difference between an M14 operating with the gas valve closed versus opened? Change in POI at all?
Here's a link to the M14 Firing Line Public Forum. According to this testing of M118 match ammo showed an avg. 15 fps muzzle velocity "decrease" with the valve closed along with a noticeable increase in recoil.
http://www.m-14forum.com/upload/showthread.php?t=39664&highlight=valve
another link to a discussion about closing the spindle valve
http://www.m-14forum.com/upload/showthread.php?t=14977&highlight=valve
I was recently given a bucket of mixed brass (several calibers, brass, steel both lacquered and zinc coated). The brass had been in the bucket for awhile and the steel cases (many of them) had rusted. Well, even though the brass didn't rust the steel has corroded where it touched the brass and some of it looks really bad. I'll know more once it goes through the polisher but I just wanted to let folks know it would be a good idea to do the sortin', separatin' and cleanin' as soon as possible after you pick it up. FYI FWIW. Oh, yeah, thanks for the brass.
Yep, a magnet should easily separate the steel from brass. Separation
from the start makes the rest of the process go much faster. Also
cuts down on time and materials used for rejects.
I have found Federal brass to be closest in weight and construction to Lake City (imagine that). However, I will still only reload a case for my M1A five times maximum, though. I can buy more brass, but I can't buy another ...
I loaded some once-fired lithuanian m80 brass cases (GGG headstamp) between dove hunts this weekend. The cases weigh the same as Lake City, but they seem to be quite a bit harder without being brittle. I'll have to see how they last. After careful inspection I'll still only reload them 5 times max, though.
How do your determine "harder" than LC brass? I've had brass that was harder to resize than others but I assumed it was either expanded more due to pressure or the chamber of the rifle it was fired in.
Have you tried annealing them? That should make them softer.
I full length size cases using Imperial Case Sizing Wax (I have never had a stuck case since switching to this product), trim them to length, chamfer and debur them, clean the primer pocket, remove the military crimp (swage the pocket with the Dillon tool) on the first reload, debur the flashhole, and clean up any burs on the rim caused by extraction.
If I am doing small batches (I reloaded 50 of these) I usually use hand tools for triming and deburing the cases. I found that these cases (GGG) took considerably more effort than normal (I have reloaded thousands of cases).
These cases were from Lithuanian M80 surplus that I fired from my rifle. Since I use Imperial Case Sizing Wax they were easy to resize.
I did not anneal these cases, but you can see the annealing marks from the factory.
I am not sure that these cases being harder than normal is a bad thing. I am hoping they may be stronger. I will see how they last compared to Lake City after several reloads. I'll post my experience at a later date.
Cheers.
You should try annealing them, and annealing every so many reloads.
The brass work hardens from firing and sizing cycles. Older brass will have a tendency to get brittle over time as well. THis will make your brass last longer, and you'll get fewer split necks.
If case forming, you definitely need to anneal your cases.
Over at the shop, we have a power annealer made from a belt sander, iron pipe (drilled), propane bottle and regulator, angle iron, web belting and an electric motor. Works pretty good. Just fire it up, start the motor and start putting cases on the belt. They go through the flames, cool off going down the belt, then drop into a box. Pretty slick when you're doing 500 to 1000 cases (or more) at a time.
That sounds like a nice setup. I respect your opinion and understand about annealing cases to relieve stress due to work hardening and that it will extend your case life. I know this to be true, but...
Based on experience, I have not found the need to anneal cases for the few (4-5) reloads that I plan to get out of 7.62 brass. I have found this to be true even with '70s production Indian brass. By annealing you will get more life out of a case, but for an M1A I won't press my luck. I use surplus mil-spec brass in this rifle for it's stronger construction, but due to safety concerns will not reload them more than five times. It's not worth it. If someone wants to anneal them to extend their life for more than five reloads, go for it - but I will not be that man.
This is not the only rifle I reload for, but it is a 7.62 gas-gun and you must respect it as such and be very methodical in your reloading practices. Your case prep may include annealing, but for my purposes I haven't seen the need in this particular instance. However, if I wasn't able to successfully get 4-5 reloads I would.
I don't get split necks either.
The ammo this brass came from was in new condition (2003 dated headstamp). It's bright and shiny and in much better condition than much of the other surplus cases I have reloaded over the years. It's just seems to be harder, but not brittle as stated in my original post.
I'm not looking for advice or a solution to a non-existent problem. I am just sharing information about these particular cases and will let you know how they perform for me. I am hoping that they will last for 4-5 reloads as this ammo is available now from AIM Surplus and a couple of other places on the web and may prove to be another good source of hard to find mil-spec brass.
For those that are new to reloading here is something to think about...
http://www.fulton-armory.com/ReloadingThoughts.htm
And if you insist on annealing, here is some more info:
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Regards.
Newer production brass is usually no problem. I have gotten away with severa lreloading of LC 65 Match and FA64 Match brass and gotten away with it.
Oh, I should've mentioned. '70's vintage Indian isn't the same stuff as the newer Indian. The newer stuff is GARBAGE (that '70's stuff is OK, though). I reloaded some of the newer stuff, yup, worked out well, until I had a case head blowout (not a head sep), setting 3 more rounds in the mag and almost junked my Fed Ord M14. Cost me a stock, bolt, ejector and magazine, and a couple hundred $$$ in ER bills to get the metal out of my hand. I did learn how tough a cast receiver is, compared to a forged USGI bolt.
Ouch!!
I have heard that about the newer Indian ammo, but so far have had good luck with the '70s production. The ammo itself is not as accurate as some, but it is reloadable and believe it or not the '70s brass is actually heavier (stronger?) than Lake City by approximately 6-7 grains.
Speaking of case prep, I took reloaded tracer in 5.56, 7.62, and .30 cal to BC. We had one rain shower, so I passed out some to everybody and we had a little fun shoot while the rain lasted.
Two of the shooters had occasional failures to fully feed--round would chamber but bolt would not quite lock. One was an AR (which was tightest and was not able to lock and fire on some rounds), and as I recall the other was an M1 type (Garand or M1A). That one would lock and fire. As a safety note, I realize that you don't normally wanna fire cases under these circumstances-- if the hard locking is caused by excess case length it might pinch the bullet and cause pressure excursions. In this case I knew the case length was within spec and the rounds were VERY lightly loaded (all my loaner ammo is).
When I examined unfired extracted cases, the tight points seemed to be the case shoulder. Both rifles were dirty, so was easy to see. My take is that my resizing die is not setting the shoulder back quite far enough. I am using a Lee full-length sizing die, and in that design you have it set so that the case holder touches the die mouth--so there is no way to adjust it in any further.
VAshooter and AR180 were telling me that the RCBS (I think) dies will allow you to adjust how far the shoulder is set back. They also recommended case gauges for the reloaded rounds, that would show both min and max shoulder setback and OAL. (I think Stoney Point, not sure).
My objective is to reload ammo that will reliably function in ANY firearm in the caliber. I thought I had it, but spreading the reloads around showed the shortcomings of my method right quick. Just a heads up for those who might be reloading for others, or if you think you might buy another rifle in the same caliber and want the ammo to work.
Those of you who have been paying attention to "quality control" for reliability, what type dies/gauges do ya'll use? I don't really want to re-invent the wheel here....
SoM
I use Lee products. You may not have the die seated in your press correctly. Here is an excerpt from their instructions:
2 INSTALL SIZING DIE While holding the lever
all the way down against its stop, turn the sizing
die into the press until it touches the shellholder
(figure 4). Raise the lever (lower the ram) and turn
the die in an additional 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Lower the lever again, and use the ram to apply light pressure
to the base of the die. This will keep the die from turning as
one tightens the lock ring to secure the adjustment just made.
NOTE Carbide dies should not be turned in the additional
1/4 to 1/2 turn.
Another possibility is that you are using a Lee Collet Die that does not full-length resize, but neck sizes only which is fine (and sometimes preferred) for bolt guns if you are reloading for the same rifle, but dangerous in semi or fully automatic.
I have found all of my cases resized with Lee Dies are in spec. I used to be so anal as to check every dimension with calipers, but now a quicker step is to put every prepped case into a Lyman Case Gauge before priming or charging them. This is actually a small SAMMI-spec sized chamber that will allow you to easily tell if your cases are within tolerances.
Once again, I have had good success with Lee, but if Lee is still not getting it done for you I have buddies that swear by RCBS and Dillon.
Yup, that's how I set them.
I have had uniformly good results with Lee products, which is why this was a surprise to me. Thanks for the info, I will Google that gauge.
SoM
Dillon has them, but here is one for 7.62/308 from Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=271313&t=11082005
The 308 gauge will work for your 7.62 as M14 chambers are slightly larger than SAMMI-spec 308.
They have the other calibers as well.
Quote from: wcmartin1 on September 06, 2007, 11:03:12 AM
Ouch!!
I have heard that about the newer Indian ammo, but so far have had good luck with the '70s production. The ammo itself is not as accurate as some, but it is reloadable and believe it or not the '70s brass is actually heavier (stronger?) than Lake City by approximately 6-7 grains.
Everything I've heard about the 70's Indian is good. Based on the weight (therefore the thickness), reduce your loads slightly, and you should be OK.
My experience was with the junk from '97, I think. Still got a bunch of it. It's my "last resort" ammo.
Edited to add:
Those gages are good, I swear by them. Mine are Wilson, bought mostly from Midway, though, I've had a couple of them from before Midway was in business. The Dillon are good, too.
"Everything I've heard about the 70's Indian is good. Based on the weight (therefore the thickness), reduce your loads slightly, and you should be OK."
10-4. I've already reloaded some of it 5 times. I'll let you know about the Lithuanian.
Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.
Quote from: Talon on September 24, 2007, 03:39:25 PM
I read in this thread how many use a tumbler; I never have. I use liquid soak, then air dry. Soak doesn't always get cases polished, but it does get them cleaned of case lube and grime. There's down time in drying, too.
Typically, I chuck a piece of brass in my .5: cordless drill, then give the neck a few seconds in the steel wool.
I used to clean the primer pockets, too. Not any more. I've been logging every shot since I stopped, and there is no discernible difference in POI or FPS. I've not had one misfire.
I believe you about the POI and FPS, but the main reason to clean primer pockets in a gas gun (M1, M1A, AR, etc.) is to ensure that you don't have a high primer, which is one of the contributing factors to a slam fire with a floating firing pin. I'm all about saving time, but if you are not going to clean the primer pockets make sure that your primers are all seated slightly below flush with the rim.
Quote from: Nickle on September 24, 2007, 05:50:19 PM
Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.
Is that with or without sugar?
Quote from: Muddogg on September 24, 2007, 06:42:44 PM
Quote from: Nickle on September 24, 2007, 05:50:19 PM
Before tumblers were used, we used Kool-Aid at the shop, and soaked the brass overnight. It worked well.
Is that with or without sugar?
Believe it or not, it makes no difference.
Oh, cleaning your primer pockets does make a change in accuracy. I'll also tell you that you will need an extremely accurate rifle (as in well under 1 MOA) fired from the bench to notice it.
Very important on a gas gun to make sure the primer pockets are fairly clean, and wcmartin1 has the biggest reason.
Two successful fired reloads of the fifty "test" Lithuanian (GGG) cases so far...
Third reload complete and looks good, I'll try to shoot them this weekend - time permitting.
Fourth sucessful fired reload of the Lithuanian brass (using M852 equivalent load). Shot a 228-10 with it on Q&D AQT this morning. Will reload this brass one more time ...
FWIW, I always clean my primer pockets before each reload and use a primer pocket uniformer cutter tool before the first reloading (it's not required on subsequent reloads).
I also de-burr the inside of the flash hole on trimmed cases. For good measure, I take a light, manual turn on the outside (primer side) of the flash hole. I figure that rocket and jet engines have tapers on either side of the compression node, so why not primer holes which are much the same thing?
Either tool chucked into a drill-press makes the task quick and easy. Order at least two of each so you will always have a good tool if the used tool is being shipped back to manufacturer for replacement. Yes, they will actually replace cutting tools under warranty, so take advantage of their good customer service.
I inspect each round's primer seating prior to loading.
I use mil-spec primers.
I inspect each primer of each loaded round.
I always inspect the primers of reloads prior to shooting.
Haven't found a bad one yet.
I triple-check myself because it's a good habit and nowadays no real hassle.
That said, I refuse to use private, non-commercial reloads, and am reluctant to use commercial reloads.
If I knew that the private reloader (or business) was consistently fanatical about quality control, I might consider using their product.
YMMV.
I had a similar happening (bead-blasted appearance) with a batch of .45acp cases and am pretty sure I can attribute to fine sand contamination in my corncob medium. I'd describe their appearance as "frosty." It started right after I added a mess of cases picked up from a sandy area and not rinsed off. That load of meduim had been used a long time, so it was a small loss to pitch it. Cases worked fine, just looked a little funny.
I've always used corncob medium with either Dillon's or Midway polish, both seem to work about the same.
Can someone give me the proper mix of corn cob media and polish? And perhaps a life span + or - runs to watch for? Is it a practise to use that combo in every tumble? Or should one alternate using the polish?
Also, how much money to get into the annealing aspect or reloading? I read the link that was given earlier on in the thread and am interested.
ax
There are as many opinions about polishing media & adding polish as there are reloaders. ::) To start with you can by Lyman tumbler media with polish already in it. When you can't tell what it is anymore its probably time to throw it out. Most of the reloading polishes come with directions on how much to use. Brand new most any media will give you bright shiny cases. As it gets dirtier the cases still get clean but it takes longer and the cases look more frosted or "pebbly". Your choice how far to go.
The dirt/crud level on your cases will determine how long it takes to clean them and probably affects the life of the media.
I got some crushed walnut shells at the pet store (large bag of bird cage litter, or what ever it is called). It's been working fine for me. Some folks say the stuff doesn't wear out. I don't know for sure why but the first lot of corncob media (that came with the polisher from Midway) started "sandblasting" my cases after several hundred cases had gone through it (maybe 2 or 3 thousand cases).
Oh yeah, the pet store stuff is WAY cheaper than the gun store stuff.
That is what I am wondering. If you have ever been on Friar Frog's website.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Case
he mentions several home remedies that work well for him and I was wondering myself about he pet store stuff. We have tractor supply stores here. Rural king's, Tractor Supply Stores etc. They all carry that walnut stuff as well as very fine corn media in somethingn like 15 lb bags..
I am wanting home remedies, about to lose a very good job and I am the insider tricks to some of this stuff to save money.
There are several other folks here who have (in the past, on the old forum) indicated they also use the tractor supply, pet store, farm and fleet, etc. large bags of crushed corn cob and/or walnut shell media.
It's way cheaper than what the reloading/shooting/sports stores and catalogs sell the stuff for. It works fine for me.
I buy my crushed walnut shells at Wally World in the pet department.
Even the employees in the sporting department were happy to learn of
it, as it is at least half of anywhere else. It is however untreated. I used
NuShine car finish when I run out of the brass shine products. Also added
cut up strips of clothes drying softener anti static sheets. Collects all the
nasties and extends the life of the media ;D
Here is a site with some case preparation info.
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm
I'm probably more anal than needed about some things but first tumble with walnut media. I bought the media fairly cheap at Harbor freight. Works as well as the $$$$ stuff. Then off to decapping / resizing. Something I've found to do a good job on the primer pockets is an ultrasonic cleaner. A little slow for volume reloading, but much faster than primer pocket uniforming. I toss them in after decapping / sizing to remove lube and remove a fair amount of the carbon crud in the primer pocket and neck. I can put about 33 cases at a time in the ultrasonic cleaner and run each batch for 90 seconds. I need a bigger one now that I am reloading larger qty and not just 20 cases for Bench Rest ;D As an added benefit, I have also found the ultrasonic cleaner great for AR bolts and other small parts that get crudded up. I then rinse cases thoroughly and lay on a towel out in the CA sun to dry or put in the oven at 150° for 30 minutes. If I am feeling neurotic, I'll then throw the cases in corn cob with a little polish to make them all nice and shiny
Still for accurate loads I use a primer pocket uniformer on every reload, but am too lazy to do this for every loading for the autochucker. I also load autochucker ammo within SAAMI pressure limits so there is MUCH less primer pocket deformation than BR (yes, you know that you are at too high pressure when you have to disassemble the bolt and remove the primer anvil that has pushed it's way through the primer and squeezed through the firing pin hole into the bolt) :-[
A little off topic, but I tried resizing 7.62X51 Mil-Spec brass full length for my M1A with bad results. Standard NATO ammo dropped in nicely with the bolt stripped, however, the re-sized brass would not fall into place. Using a RCBS 308 die to do this and have repeated this proceedure several times on the same brass to no avail. Do they make a 7.62X51 sizing die set specifically for re-sizing &.62X51 cases. Haven't had luck finding one!
RCBS X-die, SMALL BASE!!
Works like a charm. Small base to make sure that all reloads fit into any rifle of the same caliber, X-die to limit case stretching over time. Have only reloaded brass three times with the X-die so can't say for sure that the case stretching STOPS, but it is definitely less than with a standard full length die.
Get yer range pickups trimmed one time, reload many times without messing with the trimmer. Wonderful.
SoM
Quote from: kissell on December 22, 2008, 11:46:40 AM
A little off topic, but I tried resizing 7.62X51 Mil-Spec brass full length for my M1A with bad results. Standard NATO ammo dropped in nicely with the bolt stripped, however, the re-sized brass would not fall into place. Using a RCBS 308 die to do this and have repeated this proceedure several times on the same brass to no avail. Do they make a 7.62X51 sizing die set specifically for re-sizing &.62X51 cases. Haven't had luck finding one!
Is your die set a small base die set?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=824502&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=9315
Needed for proper function in semi and pump actions.
Thanks for the great info on the X-Dies. Should this also be standard proceedure for the M1Garand, a small base 30.06 X-Die?
If you already have the standard 30.06 dies try them.
Even though they all say ".308" or "30.06" on the dies and the rifles, chances are they are not identical.
I have two M1A type rifles in my house and both of them (one with a NM barrel) feed reloads from standard .308 dies (Pacific and Lee) just fine. Your rifle may have a slightly tighter chamber or your dies may not have the same internal dimensions as mine.
I've only tried my 30.06 reloads in two of the Garands so far and they have done fine. If you get the small base dies, when you don't need them, realize that you are "working" the brass more than necessary and it may fail after fewer reloadings.
I've heard a lot of good things about the X-dies and put a couple sets on my Christmas "wants" list. We'll see how they do.
Two questions. First, is the small base sizing die just that! Too reduce the base of the brass? Second in reference to the Garand I have, I bought bulk ammo several years ago and just tried these rounds in the Garand chamber with stripped bolt only to find some were too tight to close without effort, while a few chambered very smoothly. Does this sound a ammo issue or possible a headspace issue? I did full length some once fired 30.06 and these don't lock-up smoothly either. Very perplexed!!
Full length resizing means the die should touch the shell holder when the ram arm is fully raised.
I don't know what your instructions say but both my Pacific and Lee dies recommend the die contact the shell holder during resizing. Another issue is a "short stroke" of the handle while resizing the brass. If the brass doesn't go all the way into the die some won't be quite the same size. Make sure you always push the handle down far enough that the die contacts the shell holder.
Now, for another example of just how different dies/rifle chambers can be - I did not adjust my resizing dies (Pacific) to contact the shell holder during the resizing operation. I adjusted it so that it left a small dark ring of resizing lube right at the junction of the neck and the shoulder of the brass. My M1A ate'em up with no issues. Another M1A might not.
The small base die (I believe) will give you brass that is slightly smaller in diameter all along the sides of the case, not just down at the base.
As for not fully chambering. Two more issues are possible here. One is the length of the brass. Brass "stretches" during the resizing process (even during the firing process if the rifle it was fired in has way more headspace than your rifle). The case mouth may be contacting the end of the chamber and not allowing the bolt to go all the way forward. The second thing is the bullet may be contacting the lands of the rifling and stopping the cartridge from fully chambering.
#1 can be checked with a caliper. Measure a new piece of brass (from the rim to the opening of the case mouth) and then measure your fired brass and your resized brass and see what the difference is. You may need to trim the brass to the correct length.
#2 can be checked by chambering a reload and then ejecting it. Look the bullet over real good to see if you can see the little marks, right in front of the case mouth, of the lands contacting the bullet. If this is happening you need to adjust the seating die to seat the bullet a little deeper.
Buying bulk ammo (I assume that meant reloads, or "remanufactured" ammo as some call their products) doesn't mean its made correctly. Measure those case lengths.
You can even use the calipers to measure the outside diameter of the resized brass and new ammo at various points up the side of the case. Get a tape measure or ruler and mark the case at 1/2" intervals with a sharpie, then use the calipers to measure the outside diameter at each mark and compare your resized brass to new brass.
kissell, if you don't already have one, get a case gauge for your .308 (and your .30-06 as well). They're pretty inexpensive and well worth the money. The gauges will allow you to set the sizing die so that your brass will chamber freely. If you're not using a gauge, you may think by looking that the die has contacted the shellholder, but it may actually be a few thousandths off and your resized shells will be too long to chamber well. I don't use the small-base dies on my M14SA (standard Dillon .308 sizer) and I've never had a problem, but I do set it to have 0.002" headspace to try and balance between stretching and reliable functioning when the chamber gets a little cruddy. You might try the gauge before you invest in a new set of dies. You don't say what press you're using, but if it's a Lee, they seem to have a lot of flex in their frames and that might account for the insufficient sizing you're getting. A stiffer press may help. I may be trying the recommend X-dies soon, though, because I hate trimming!
Wow, a press flexing? Get rid of it and get a good cast iron "O" type press from RCBS or Pacific.
If the press is flexing the brass may not even be "square". With the case jamned up in the die if the press twisted slightly I could see it "bending" the base off the center line of the case.
Nickle would know more about how this might affect chambering if it's already close.
Oh, for what it's worth, I've never removed my extractor or ejector from my rifles' bolts to check to see about the chambering of my reloads. I do it to check headspace, but not to check to see if my reloads chamber.
I'm an equal opportunity brass resizer. If its the same caliber as my rifle and boxer primed, I reload it. I even run .270 Win., .280 Rem. and .25-06 brass through my 30-06 resizer and make 30-06 brass out of it (the .280 and .270 requires some trimming to get it to the right length.) I also resize .243 Win. to .308 and reload it.
Due to the availability of 30-06 brass (vs. .308) there's been some discussion on some other forums were folks have run 30-06 brass through a .308 sizer (that takes a lot of trimmining ;D). So far there are some issues no one's figured out yet (first time reloaded everything works fine, 2nd time those cases are loaded the fire fine but the groups go to pieces).
I share the above just to let you know that brass is pretty darn flexible (one time - meaning drastic sizing from one caliber to another works okay one time but if you tried to alternate caliber each time you resized the brass it would split pretty quickly) so usually the brass isn't the problem.
If you get the chamber gauge and use it please come back and let us know how it works - meaning, if it fits in the gauge fine does it also fit in the chamber.
Good luck with this.
Thanks for the valuable info, hope all is well for your these holidays. Some food for thought when those out there shop at Wally-World and the likes. Look at the labels and see where it is made.
"Someday a chinese soldier may put a bullet in my head, but I'll be damned if it is a bullet I've paid for. Buy American!"
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays
Back again, had some interesting case related happenings. Got those 308 to feed like a dream into my M1A.
Before, the sizing was not working at bringing them down to feed smoothly. Tried something a little off the wall. Tried a coating of light weight synthetic engine oil prior to sizing, bingo! Also I noticed to die seemed to work with less resistance while using a 3 stroke process taking the case about half way on first stroke, full on second and third stroke. Another thing happened which may be valuable to the ones with a bushel of 30.06 brass, but, need 308 brass. I followed a cut down proceedure discussed on this forum space, resized this 30.06 to 308, retrimmed and mic-ed the vital dimensions to find virtually 0-.001 difference from unfired mil-spec brass. This was also done with a thin coating of synthetic lube. Will have to clean cases extremely well, and the work involved is possible more than it is worth, however, knowing it can be done is the reward of the effort.
Hope all had a good Christmas!
Two things - 270 or 280 brass could be resized down to .308 brass as well.
You should also check the new case neck thickness. That far down a 30.06 case the walls may be thicker than the walls at the neck. If so you could be creating a pressure issue or chambering issue. I have a Forster case trimmer I bought the outside neck turning accessories for. This allows me to "shave" any excess metal off the neck to set the thickness back to what a .308 case would be.
Just something to think about.
OLD DOG, Great point. That was the first thing I checked was the neck O.D. and the neck wall thickness. Compared to the knocked down mil-spec 308 it was less than .001 between the two shells. After the initial cut down to 2.015", I did the sizing then checked the length again which had grown .001-.002". I re-trimmed the brass a second time and tried each shell in chamber of the new Springfield M1A I have, and viola! Good 308 brass from 30.06 brass. One note, this was L.C. brass loaded with blank loads for ceremonial use. However all mic-ings show this to be the same stuff as the mil-spec 30.06 loads I've bought. This is not to say I will not get chamber, as well as cartrige guages for both M1Garand and M1A. These tool will help take the stupid out of my reloading!Ha ha. My next venture is to find the reason the 30.06 bulk loads are varing to the degree they are. Most are tight in the M1Garand and others seem to fall in beautifully. Know my chamber is not changing between rounds, so it has to be the shells. It is Berdan primed so foreign for sure. Don't think it is Greek, but maybe. It is the same batch but I feel not made to MY specs. If I have to knock down and resize to make use of I will. Got nothing else that will digest it. Latter.
The greek surplus sold by the CMP is boxer primed and seems to be pretty decent brass and the headstamp is HXP with a two digit number representing the year of manufacture.
PM headed your way as well.
Well, I'll have to try that Greek if available. Will try CMP. My ammo is headstamped AMA 89. Bet I won't forget where I buy ammo in the future. Still working on a quicker cut down method on those blank 30.06 cases to resize to the 308. The few more done, just for giggles mic-ed good in comparison to the knocked down 7.62x51 case. Happy as hell! Cutting the crimp out of the primer pockets has been a pain. Some are crimped a little more than others but, she is working o.k. now. I want you fellows I really appreciate this info. Being an old ex-jarhead, can't let my battle rifles die, my countrymen may need me some day. After all, without ammo you just got an expensive club!
Quote from: kissell on December 26, 2008, 02:57:55 PM
Cutting the crimp out of the primer pockets has been a pain.
Getcha one of these - http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25263/catid/8/Super_Swage_600
RCBS primer pocket swager Slow But it works and you only have to do it once,
You may run into case wall thickness issues during the 3006 to 308/762nato program so neck turning may be in order, Have you tryed to make 308 blank brass into useable brass??? Pappy
I'll try that pocket swager and see how it works, got time, trying to save a buck. As far as the question of using blank ammo brass, yes ,that is exactly what I using. Most is the L.C. full crimped loads. I've not tried the ring crimped blank brass yet. Neck thickness is at no more than .0015 variation above knocked down mil-spec loads. I tried the proceedure of chambering the finished product with the stripped bolt, the dropped in like a charm. Have to say, I think the synthetic lube used for sizing took the cases down a little tighter than hoped for. Not using the X-Die smallbase yet. Got antsy to get some good results by improvising.
Old Dog and all others, back again. Just ordered go-nogo gauges for the M1Garand to get down to the real business of finding the Old Garand's issue. Bad as I hate to say, I fear it is a head space issue. This rifle is a Federal Ordnance Garand built in the 60's and is in very good cosmetic condition, but, I bought it from another person who never elaborated as it having any functioning issue. So, I got to do the check-out on it to rest my mind. I,ve fired it many times and it never failed, but, did chamber tight a couple times. However, I also had a op rod spring helping me! So I will get her smoothed out, no matter what is needed! Latter.
Kissel, my objection to a small base die is using it if you don't have to as they "overwork" the brass if used when not needed (reducing the diameter of the case smaller than a standard die then when fired it expands to fired size). Small base means diameter, not length, so a head space issue should not be cured by a small base die (unless I misunderstand most of what I think I've learned about reloading.)
I don't go to the trouble of removing my extractor and ejector to try loads in a rifle chamber. For checking headspace with the headspace gauges, yes, remove the extractor and ejector, remove the op rod spring and op rod so you can see the bolt lug as it rotates downward into position - you are watching to see if the lug touches the receiver rail as the bolt rotates towards the closed position.
The brass can be too long, trim to length, or even a few thousands under (the 30.06 has a long neck and shortening a little won't hurt as the case is contacting the chamber on the shoulder, not the mouth of the case.
The next thing you have to make sure of it the bullet is not contacting the lands of the rifling as the bullet chambers. Seat the bullet to the cartridge over all length you've been using and chamber the cartridge. Slowly eject it and examine the bullet to see if you see little marks left by the lands around the bullet (if it is touching).
Either the bullet hitting the lands or the case neck being too long could cause a similar problem to what you describe.
If neither of the above is happening try shining up a case or two with fine steel wool and chambering them. When you eject them do you see any type of scuff or scratch marks on the brass? When I say chamber them I don't mean let them feed from the magazine/clip - drop it in the chamber and push the op rod fully forward (to make sure the cartridge/case is chambered, then eject it and examine the case.
You my need to use the small base dies if the chamber of your rifle is a little tighter than most rifles. The good news is that if your chamber is tighter (diameter wise) than most M1's using the small base dies might be necessary but the brass cases won't be expanding to the size they would in another rifle and your dies shouldn't be so hard on the brass.
Keep looking and you'll find the problem and fix it. Like we say, a rifleman perseveres, even when troubleshooting rifle and cartridge issues. You are getting to know your rifle better and "making it yours."
Old Dog, thanks again for great info. Got go-no-go gauges coming for the Garand just to make sure it spec. in.
Minimal investment for peace of mind. Went with Forster set. Still working on 30.06 case cut downs to create 308 brass. Looking real good and mic-ing out .001 or less heavy on neck wall thickness. Seem to all be feeding good in the M1A. I've went thru about 700 empty brass of 30.06 sorting the full crimped brass for cut-down. and saving the other type I call red tip blank for .06 reloads. I'm holding off on the x-die until I've guaged the Garand. Later.
UPDATE--- Old Dog, just got my go-nogo gauges today, unfortunately my problem is to tight a chamber, ie; incorrect headspacing. Now looking for reputable gunsmith to correct problem. If this was a Springfield I would go to them, however, I've got a Federal Ordnance model. May check to see if they still are in business. At least I know the problem is not my ammo reloading. This rifle had this problem all along, good thing it is built well. Could have had a real boo-boo occur. Later.
Back again, not so sure these readings are entirely
relative. The L.C. brass has been sizing down real good for the old Garand, even though the go gauge told me different. These are SAAMI specs., maybe the tighter chamber will work with my brass sizing. I'll have to check all other ammo prior to use. Another point on priming some 308/7.62x51 I made out of 30.06 brass. All were crimped primers so I cleaned out crimping, cleaned primer pocket and primed. A little proceedure I used to insure the primer was seated deep enough was to blacken the base of the cartridge and primer with a wide felt marker, let dry, then, using a paper shop towel placed on a flat piece of steel, slid the brass(base down) across the paper towel. If done correctly, the black should remain on the primer. Worked good.
I'll try a few loads, little lighter than standard in that Garand to see how my reworked brass functions. It may seem as an assumption, but, I kind-a-feel headspacing is an issue resolvable thru brass sizing in some instances. The go gauge tells me I'm too tight, yet, my reworked brass says other!
A little clarification, the re-worked ammo is for my M1A, not the Garand. Fired 20+ rounds and it worked fine. Chroy readings were averaged at 2572fps with 42gr imr 4895. Will tweek to 42.4-42.8grs., looking for 2666fps. to make distance calculations easier. Also little easier on my rig. Fired brass show minimal growth and still in the 2.012 range. Primer backed up .001 on all cases. Still think thats O.K. for uncrimped settings. Compared to factory 7.62x51 ammo I fired, my reload showed less sidewall growth than the factory stuff. Think maybe the L.C. brass is better. Rainy here today so my next round of firing will have to wait.
I've heard the differences in brass (from one lot to another, one manufacturer to another) leads to differences in the way it contracts or expands.
In other words, two different pieces of brass (different lot or manufacturer) may expand to the same size on firing (chamber is the limit, right!?) but one will shrink back to a slightly different size than the other. Same deal on resizing. They may both have the same OD (while inside the resizing die) but when pulled out one may "spring back" to a slighly larger OD than the other.
This may not be an issue in most rifles but could be in a rifle with a chamber on the small side.
Just for info.
Stick with it, you are learning about your rifles.
Old Dog, not trying to blow myself up or nothing, but I am still thinking, dispite Go gauges reading a little tight, that the true headspace is created as a relationship between your specific cartridge, the bolt and the point of contact of the datum line to the rifle chamber. After all, is this not what wildcatters do in establishing new rounds. Now I not trying to create anything new, just after the true answer on the headspace issue and if my thinking is correct. I have not and will not fire any more ammo thru this rifle, dispite the 100's previously fired, until I 100% sure all DUCKS ARE IN ORDER. I will look at the avenue of a bolt swap first to bring this old girl back on line if need be. Re working the chamber may also be necessary.
To back up, picture this: On this Garand issue, bulk ammo seemed to run to tight, my reloads seemed to run to tight, full length resized brass seemed to run to tight and the go gauge seemed barely to tight not closing completely, but, L.C. full length resized brass drops in and closes easily on a stripped bolt. Maybe this leads me to the big question "Given a choice to having to fire a round from a rifle with too tight a chamber vs. excessive chamber space, how would chose?" Thanks for you advice.
This is "guess" only based on lots of reading. I've never had a case separation in a rifle or handgun. The only cases I've had "blow" holes through the case wall were factory ammo and I only noticed the problem when picking up the brass and inspecting it.
Too tight a chamber can increase because it can restrict the neck/mouth of the case or push the bullet back into the case. In this case a weak piece of brass could result in a case blow out down near the rim/base resulting in significant damage to the rifle. Even with no immediate evidence of a case wall rupture the increase chamber pressure is creating extra wear on your bolt and receiver.
A chamber with "long" headspace usually isn't a pressure issue but with a weak piece of brass could result in a separated case which while releasing some gas back into the action it probably won't be as bad as the results of the case rupture talked about above. There are many instances of case separation that the shooter isn't aware of until the next round fails to chamber. However, reloading brass from a rifle with excessive headspace can result in short brass life and an increased tendency for case separations.
My son's PolyTech would swallow a .308 field ga. (it was so loose it would rattle in and out of the chamber). I replaced the bolt with a GI (H&R M14) bolt and everything is cool now. However, the rifle had digested hundreds of rounds of surplus SA 7.62X51 ammo with no sign of problems as the cases were fired once and tossed away/scrapped.
If I was reloading for a bolt action rifle with "long" headspace and it still shot well enough to suit me I'd just segregate my brass for that rifle, neck size only and keep reloading and shooting it. It can be tough to do that with a semi-auto rifle. Semi-auto rifles can be "picky" as you are finding out.
Hope you find someone to correct the problems on your M1 so you can get it back to the range and feel good about it. You know, now that you have the headspace ga. you might thing about taking it to a local gunshow and trying some different bolts from some of the vendors there. You might find one that cures your problem without having to have the chamber recut.
Well guys, I finally broke down and took the M1Garand to a gunsmith to look at and he felt the old girl was safe to fire using the proceedure I had explained of custom making my brass, but, the proceedure of the fix was a lot less than expected. I feel so stupid but $50.00 worth of rechambering work will solve my problem. Of course I sure he's cutting me a deal. This guy is going to re-cut the chamber to specs. to match where it is supposed to be. Sometimes the fear of the illness is worse than the medicine it takes to cure it. Now back to reloading!
Quote from: kissell on January 06, 2009, 06:44:54 PM
Now back to reloading!
And maybe even some Appleseeding!
You are so right! Working on a local 22 cal. program for local youth and others interested in the art of shooting at my farm. Getting set up a range compatable for this function. Appleseed I attended inspired me to do so. Also looking at finding a way to convince U.S. Government to set up a local range at the old Jefferson Proving Ground recently abandoned for some real shooting training. This was a 60,000 acre complex for munitions testing from the 50's thru 2003. Lots of soil yet to be put to good use.
Quote from: kissell on January 06, 2009, 08:07:04 PM
You are so right! Working on a local 22 cal. program for local youth and others interested in the art of shooting at my farm. Getting set up a range compatable for this function. Appleseed I attended inspired me to do so. Also looking at finding a way to convince U.S. Government to set up a local range at the old Jefferson Proving Ground recently abandoned for some real shooting training. This was a 60,000 acre complex for munitions testing from the 50's thru 2003. Lots of soil yet to be put to good use.
O0
Sorry Talon, this range is being constructed on my 52 acres. Still in the works but will happen. I'm an avid shooter and expect to see new avid shooter come about to take my place. What's your story? Got any where for young people to shoot, no, keep in touch and I'll have it for you. S.E. Indiana location well in the country.
Quote from: kissell on January 06, 2009, 06:44:54 PM
Well guys, I finally broke down and took the M1Garand to a gunsmith to look at and he felt the old girl was safe to fire using the proceedure I had explained of custom making my brass, but, the proceedure of the fix was a lot less than expected. I feel so stupid but $50.00 worth of rechambering work will solve my problem. Of course I sure he's cutting me a deal. This guy is going to re-cut the chamber to specs. to match where it is supposed to be. Sometimes the fear of the illness is worse than the medicine it takes to cure it. Now back to reloading!
Very easy fix if you have a pull-through reamer. You put the reamer in the chamber and it is turned from the muzzle end. When the bolt closes the headspace is correct.
That is all fine if you have this reamer. I don't. Simpler to have it done by someone qualified to do so for $50.00. than to spend $150.00 for a reamer I'd most likely use once. Do not intend pursuing another profession but will do my own work to keep shootin' irons alive and well when ever feasibly.
Back from the range, fired the M1A with the reloads made up from the cut-down 30.06 L.C. brass. Got the 2666 velocity +/- off a Imr 4895 42.2 gr. load with a 150 gr. FMJBT. Did not get any groups yet, only velocities. Having scope issues with the mount and yeah, I know, Get a Springfield mount and the problem will be solved. Agreed! All functioning was good, no pressure indications, brass extracted nicely with gas-off.Feel I found the loading I'm looking for. Next loads will be the annealed cases to see if any additional growth occurs in the necks with the 42.2 gr. loads. So far minimial growth in the cases and mic-ings fall in the NATO once fired brass mic-ings.
Hello Group; In the past month or so I have ran into quite a few (Ringers).
The ring is what is left in the case after the decapping pin pops out the base of the the primer cup leaving the ring stuck in the primer pocket. This is caught during the primer pocket swagging stage, or the primer seating stage on commercial brass.
The ring can sometimes be removed from 38-357 pistol brass with a hook tool and a rod going inside the case. The ring in a Rifle case well that's another story.
So Gentlemen, DO YOU have any good (working) ideas on how to save the brass from the scrap bucket???? Most of this is GI brass, some looks like it may have been wet at one time or another, possibly from outdoor storage prior to sale to end users.
Thanks Pappy
I've had a few (5 or 6) over the last couple of years. Some come out easier that others. I've used a pick (one of the little picks in the 4 pick set (one is straight, one a 90 degree angle, one like a shepherd's hook and one that is like two sides of the equilateral triangle attached to the shaft at one corner). Sometimes I've been successful just hooking the tip of the 90 degree hook under the inside/bottom edge of the ring and prying it out. Sometimes I've had to drive the tip of the straight one down between the ring and the primer pocket wall. I had one I had to make repeated scrapes (each removing a little of the metal) in the same spot to weaken it enough to collapse inward when pryed with the with the pick.
If I'd had more issues with it I had planned to look for a series of drill bits that started small and worked larger till the last one was barely smaller than the OD of the ring. This works for me on brake line replacements. Those darn Fords have some pieces that the auto parts stores don't carry/can't get and if the brake line is rusted into the fitting it can be a pain to get out (the line twists in two when the fitting is screwed out of the wheel cylinder/t-block vs. the fitting spinning on the brake line/tubing). I use a couple/three (been awhile) small drill bits. Start with the small one, drill all the way through, go to the next one, etc. By the time I get to the last one the remaining wall of the brake line/tubing is so thin (and hot from previous drilling) that it twists loose from the fitting/t-block and pulls out on the drill bit - leaving the fitting/t-block undamaged and ready for resuse. I don't know for a fact this approach would work with brass and that broken off primer ring but I was going to give it a try.
Good luck with it. Oh, might not hurt to spray some kroil or WD40 on it first (don't know that would help in this case but I've usually done this on the brake fittings prior to actually twisting the line in two getting the fitting out.
A primer pocket uniformer works too, but most reloaders don't have or need them. Mostly a target shooter thing. I generally toss the case out, unless I can fix it in short order.
Quote from: kissell on January 05, 2009, 05:21:15 AM
Old Dog, not trying to blow myself up or nothing, but I am still thinking, dispite Go gauges reading a little tight, that the true headspace is created as a relationship between your specific cartridge, the bolt and the point of contact of the datum line to the rifle chamber. After all, is this not what wildcatters do in establishing new rounds. Now I not trying to create anything new, just after the true answer on the headspace issue and if my thinking is correct. I have not and will not fire any more ammo thru this rifle, dispite the 100's previously fired, until I 100% sure all DUCKS ARE IN ORDER.
If you can find any record of an M1 Garand ever letting loose because of excess headspace, I'd love to see it; cause it
won't happen.
The spec M1 chamber measures 1.942" to the datum line.
The spec cartridge for the M1 measures 1.948 to the datum line.
The cartridge is 0.005" longer than the chamber it is intended to go into.
I only joined into this thread because of the "not trying to blow myself up" comment. This is total bunk. When in use by the services, not one M1 was reported to have ever blown up.
Hello Group; Thanks for your in put on the RINGER issue, at this point it realy is not worth the time to mess with a long drawn out process to save a piece of 7.62 brass from the scrap hopper, weight is weight... If I can hook it out cool if I can`t it will go with the once fired primers. :) Again Thanks, Pappy