Hello Everyone,
I live in Wisconsin and participated in my first appleseed a few years ago with my son. We had a great time, learned a great deal, but came up short of rifleman. The weather turned really bad at our appleseed with 4" of rain so our last day was cut short. We were also not prepared at that time from a rifle standpoint as I had brought some older 22 autoloaders with poor sights and the rifles had problems all day long. We used some loaner rifles for a portion of our shoot but it was hard switching from one rifle to another, etc.
I am going to purchase two new rifles for my son and I for our summer shooting. I am also considering going to Ramseur (myself not my son) for Rifleman's boot camp. I am very biased toward Rugers (a personal preference). I already have multiple Ruger rotary clips, etc. I also own a built up Ruger 10/22 target rifle with a bull barrel and a Leupold Scope (my son may eventually shoot this at an appleseed. Our preference however is to shoot iron sights for our Appleseeds instead of using a scope.
I am an experienced HP service rifle shooter and really like Appleseed! Both my son and I want a rifleman's badge and are willing to work for it!
For my son I plan to purchase a Standard Ruger 10/22 sporter model and add 200 Series Tech Sights to it. Any thoughts or suggestions?
For me I am considering the same setup as my son OR going with the new Ruger American Bolt Rifle with 22" barrel in .22 LR. I would add 200 Series Tech Sights to this rifle. Thoughts?
I know that a bolt gun is more of a challenge but I am also an experienced shooter and the challenge of this is appealing to me. How difficult is it to get a riflemans badge while running a bolt gun?
Any general thoughts based on your experience are appreciated.
Thanks!
I just got the Ruger American, and you WILL need either Tech Sites or glass to be have a good chance on the AQT. The stock sites are minute-of-beer can... Other than that it's a great rifle at a good price. Also consider CZ if you're looking to run a bolt gun. CZ's are amazing.. BeSwift
+1 on the CZ. I've got a pair of trainers, and they are very high quality rifles.
Also, the Ruger Scout works very well for Appleseed.
Quote from: Cowpens on February 08, 2014, 10:26:10 PM
I know that a bolt gun is more of a challenge but I am also an experienced shooter and the challenge of this is appealing to me. How difficult is it to get a riflemans badge while running a bolt gun?
More difficult than with a semi, but with good technique it is very do-able. At my first Appleseed (Beaver Falls, PA 7/09) two of the three students who qualified were running bolts. One young lady made the grade on her first AQT (ever) with a CMP surplus Mossberg model 44 with ONE seven-round mag. The other was some old fart who got lucky on his last AQT Sunday with a Tula Arsenal .22 trainer that cocks on closing the bolt. With a tight sling the rifle snaps back into your shoulder on every cycle and your shoulder ends up looking like you shot .30 cal all day. ;)
Cowpens,
Many have shot Rifleman with a bolt rifle. One instructor in Indiana did it with a single shot Cricket, another Indiana instructor did it with a single shot Savage Rascal. It's not so important what you do it with, just do it, and then take an orange hat and help bail. O0
UL
I did my first AS with an AR-15 and a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. I got my patch, so at my second I plan on using my Mossberg 817, .17 HMR bolt gun. It has two 5-round mags, so with the second and third stages, I'll probably only get 8 rounds, max, off without having to change mags twice. We'll see how it goes.
The Ruger 10/22 sporters are perfect for Appleseed. Make sure you get a USGI web sling on them and you'll be set.
The Tech-Sights are absolutely the best upgrade you can make though you don't need the 200 model. The 100 model is more than adequate for our purposes. In fact, I'd say it's preferable since the peeps can be flipped and are designed to use at 25 for zero then flipped to 100 for shooting farther out. The 200's adjustable rear is only beneficial if you're loaning your rifle to people of various sizes who'd need a wider range of adjustment. For one shooter, you typically set your zero and leave it. The 200 isn't really a rapidly adjustable sight like the elevation drum on an AR-15A2 so the only real advantage you get is the wider range of motion. If this is going to be "your rifle" and not a loaner rifle then stick with the 100 model. Saves you $10 on each set. You can use that to buy about 20 more rounds of ammo. (Ammo prices :wb:)
Happy shootin!
Quote from: slim on February 09, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
The Ruger 10/22 sporters are perfect for Appleseed. Make sure you get a USGI web sling on them and you'll be set.
The Tech-Sights are absolutely the best upgrade you can make though you don't need the 200 model. The 100 model is more than adequate for our purposes. In fact, I'd say it's preferable since the peeps can be flipped and are designed to use at 25 for zero then flipped to 100 for shooting farther out. The 200's adjustable rear is only beneficial if you're loaning your rifle to people of various sizes who'd need a wider range of adjustment. For one shooter, you typically set your zero and leave it. The 200 isn't really a rapidly adjustable sight like the elevation drum on an AR-15A2 so the only real advantage you get is the wider range of motion. If this is going to be "your rifle" and not a loaner rifle then stick with the 100 model. Saves you $10 on each set. You can use that to buy about 20 more rounds of ammo. (Ammo prices :wb:)
Happy shootin!
I would have to agree, 100s are the way to go. Even for a loaner!!
Quote from: PaleRider on February 09, 2014, 08:18:26 AM
t has two 5-round mags, so with the second and third stages, I'll probably only get 8 rounds, max, off without having to change mags twice. We'll see how it goes.
Load five and five.
BTW, with the bolt gun, you can run the entire manual of arms at home with dry fire, including mag changes. Practice, including transitions. By the time you get the event, you should have a real good idea of how to shoot with cadence with a bolt gun. It works just like with an auto-loader, but with a little extra thrown in.
Appleseed is promoting the Marlin 795 as the new LTR. I don't own one and have no experience with them; but regardless, I would go with the Ruger 10-22. Reasons: It's been around for over 50 years and there are literally hundreds of after market parts for them that make them more user friendly than they already are. I own two of them and are very pleased with their performance. And I can almost guarantee that there is a latent amateur gunsmith in all of us; and any gun owner will try to improve what came out of the factory (adding tech sights is a good example). Quality parts availability is a big plus.
On bolt action rifles, I have not seen a Ruger. CZ 's are excellent. I do own two .22 lr models (453 and 455) and cannot be more pleased with them. IMHO its hard to go wrong with a CZ. The bad part is good luck finding one!
AJ
For the Ruger American Rimfire there is a rear of Tech sites that will fit right on the rail milled on the receiver. I believe they are the same ones for the Marlin 795 but don't hold me to that. You will have to order the rear and front site separately as there isn't a kit out for it yet. The people at tech sites know just what to send you just call and place the order.There is a thread here that has the information as well.
I would go with the bolt myself. The longer barrel give a better site radius and I have read very good things about the trigger on the American Rimfire something you will not get out of the box with a 10/22.
There was a thread the other day with a review that said the trigger was better than the CZ. It was from a gun store so take it for what it is worth.
Also as an adult it should fit you better than an normal 10/22.
My high score is with a bolt. It really isn't that big of a deal. It just takes practice.
Quote from: slim on February 09, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
The Tech-Sights are absolutely the best upgrade you can make though you don't need the 200 model. The 100 model is more than adequate for our purposes. In fact, I'd say it's preferable since the peeps can be flipped and are designed to use at 25 for zero then flipped to 100 for shooting farther out. The 200's adjustable rear is only beneficial if you're loaning your rifle to people of various sizes who'd need a wider range of adjustment. For one shooter, you typically set your zero and leave it. The 200 isn't really a rapidly adjustable sight like the elevation drum on an AR-15A2 so the only real advantage you get is the wider range of motion. If this is going to be "your rifle" and not a loaner rifle then stick with the 100 model. Saves you $10 on each set. You can use that to buy about 20 more rounds of ammo. (Ammo prices :wb:)
Concur with slim. I put 200s on my loaners, and if I had to do it over again, I'd get 100s. Cheaper, simpler to explain to the shooter, and that 200 rear elevation is a fiddly PITA.
Just if you've got a 'flipper' rear sight, be sure it's on the right one (instructors gotta check that, too). I've also recently had some 10/22 Techsights come on the line that had 1 MOA/click windage, rather than the .6 or so I've gotten used to (and yes, it was standard sight radius). Anyone else seen this? They were visually indistinguishable, it'll just show up on the initial IMC adjustments.
You might also want consider the 50th anniversary edition of the Ruger 10/22 that was designed by mac66.
Hi Cowpens, TechSights now sells the MXT200 as a kit for the Ruger American Rimfire .22 and it fit my new .22 no problem. This past January I qualified Rifleman after borrowing Slim's 10/22, so I can now say that I also prefer the 100 series sights over these 200s. Liked them so much my son's 10/22 now has TSR100s
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2851/12391507994_aa8220fd16_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12391507994/)
RAR2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12391507994/) by FX'r (http://www.flickr.com/people/fixxer/), on Flickr
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3755/12391199893_872e8e086b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12391199893/)
RAR3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12391199893/) by FX'r (http://www.flickr.com/people/fixxer/), on Flickr
My first 5 were off the paper but after dialing in the sights the next 5 were the top right corner and clockwise after that...ending in the center with 10 (All prone)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5538/12423587605_de2500459b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12423587605/)
1782265_10203309148553630_1047857856_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12423587605/) by FX'r (http://www.flickr.com/people/fixxer/), on Flickr
10 off hand and 10 sitting:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/12423588275_7cdb1642a2_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12423588275/)
1888859_10203309152033717_457550205_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12423588275/) by FX'r (http://www.flickr.com/people/fixxer/), on Flickr
I may not be accurate yet or fully dialed in but it was a really fun late Winter afternoon with my new rimfire! But so cold #)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/12424065784_254aa16179_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12424065784/)
IMG_1777 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixxer/12424065784/) by FX'r (http://www.flickr.com/people/fixxer/), on Flickr
I am going to try my next Appleseed with this boltie :)
Best wishes from Ohio!
Fixxer
From what I have seen, the Ruger 10/22 was definately a good place to start looking. They are reasonably reliable, easy to operate, and an overall good fit. If you wanted to take it up a notch, though, an AR-15 with iron sights is also a very nice rifle. One of the disadvantages to the AR-15, though, is the fact that there are so many different models and configurations that it is hard to find a rifle that will be exactly what you want. Then again, the Applseed Project is about being able to shoot the Rifleman score with an off the shelf rifle and military surplus ball ammunition. During the Revolution, they used smooth bore muskets!
Best Wishes, and Good Luck!
Looking good! O0
I'm one of the few that still prefers the 10/22 over the Marlin.
Another rifle to look at for the bolt gun is the Savage, but you will need to buy mags for it.
I have a 93R17 in 17 HMR, and really like it.
I also have a Remington 513T bolt match rifle that has made a lot of Riflemen.
It can be done with a bolt gun, even seen a new shooter do it with a Savage like the 93R17 (it was a Mark II, heavy barrel, sensible scope and sling). She had owned it all of a week (her first rifle), and she shot Rifleman over the course of the weekend. That actually was an influence on me getting the 93R17.
Quote from: Nero on February 09, 2014, 02:50:13 PM
Just if you've got a 'flipper' rear sight, be sure it's on the right one (instructors gotta check that, too). I've also recently had some 10/22 Techsights come on the line that had 1 MOA/click windage, rather than the .6 or so I've gotten used to (and yes, it was standard sight radius). Anyone else seen this? They were visually indistinguishable, it'll just show up on the initial IMC adjustments.
Nero,
I have 3 10/22's with Tech Sights TSR 200's and one is 1 moa rather 5/8. Visaully indistinguishable and I ran into it on the line at Saturday's event too. I instructed a shooter to treat the adjustment as 1/2 moa for ease of math and told him might need 2 adjustments to get on, but the first adjustment took him past COT revealing 1 MOA clicks. :wb:
fisherdawg
Windage and elevations movements are not the same per click either. Have the shooters put a card on the rifle and write down what the clicks are.
Quote from: Stand on February 12, 2014, 01:18:40 AM
Windage and elevations movements are not the same per click either. Have the shooters put a card on the rifle and write down what the clicks are.
And the directions :) (most common question on the line at 10.45a on Sat: which way goes up or down, left or right)
Up here, we say "Use the FORCE".
Really is FORS. Front opposite, rear the same.
the 200s on my marlin are also producing 1moa per click.
Quote from: Nickle on February 12, 2014, 11:40:14 PM
Up here, we say "Use the FORCE".
Really is FORS. Front opposite, rear the same.
And that's what we say down here, too. There is still the stumble for a Tech Sights instruction sheet to find out if Left is Counter-Clockwise or not., and what is Up and Down. Would be nice to have it written on a card on the stock.
Quote from: floydf on February 13, 2014, 08:36:43 AM
And that's what we say down here, too. There is still the stumble for a Tech Sights instruction sheet to find out if Left is Counter-Clockwise or not., and what is Up and Down. Would be nice to have it written on a card on the stock.
We use the left hand rule and the right hand rule.
Iron Sights: If you are using iron sights, hold up your left thumb (think Fonizie). If the bullet need to go up, point your thumb up. The direction your fingers curl is the direction you should turn your front sight. If the bullet needs to go down, point your thumb down. The direction your fingers curl is the direction you should turn your front sight. If your bullet needs to go to the left, point your thumb to the left. The direction your fingers curl is the direction you should turn your rear sight; and if your bullet needs to go to the right, point your thumb to the right and the direction your fingers curl is the direction you should turn your rear sight.
Scope: Use the right hand for the thumbs up and follow the same rule application, the direction your fingers curl is the direction you should turn your front scope turrets (either elevation or windage).
Rear tech site turn it right to make POI go right, left to make POI go left. Putting an arrow and an R on it would cost to much.